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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2656    Apol

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

 Abramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

I think your Süder Flilanda are too far south because it has no connection with the ancient river Fli/Flie/Vlie.

Not with the RIVER Flí, but with the Flí MÂR.
But it's merely a guess - though not drawn completely from the thin air.

Flood are named Fliet in the OLB, and I think it's the same word.
There are a lot of floods south of the Flímâr - maybe the name Ða Sûdar Flílanda (The Southern Vlielands) refers to the whole system of floods?

Edited by Apol, 09 March 2013 - 10:50 AM.


#2657    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

 Apol, on 09 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Here are some physical proofs of ancient ringwall-burghs in the area of the Netherlands. Most of them are regarded as being from the Viking period, but not everybody agree.
http://s1305.beta.ph...9496ad.jpg.html

I know about those ringwall burghs, but they have done archeological research (including radiocarbon dating), and none is older than max 800 CE.


#2658    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:45 AM

 Apol, on 09 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Not with the RIVER Flí, but with the Flí MÂR - the whole Flí system.

Yes, and even then it's too far south.

You had the Fli/Flie and you had Flevo Lake.


#2659    Jan Ott

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

 Knul, on 08 March 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

See below my geography of the OLB, based on the juul-wheel.
Jol-wheel has six spokes, not eight.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#2660    Apol

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:02 AM

 Abramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Yes, and even then it's too far south.

You had the Fli/Flie and you had Flevo Lake.

My Sûdar Flílanda stretches all the way from Lake Flevo (Flímâr) to the Aken/Liêge area.


#2661    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

 Apol, on 09 March 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

My Sûdar Flílanda stretches all the way from Lake Flevo (Flímâr) to the Aken/Liêge area.

Why?

The Aken/Liêge area.has nothing to do with the Fly or with Lake Flevo.

Click to enlarge:

Attached File  FLYLAND.jpg   48.13K   10 downloads

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 March 2013 - 11:05 AM.


#2662    Apol

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

 Abramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

I know about those ringwall burghs, but they have done archeological research (including radiocarbon dating), and none is older than max 800 CE.

One of the principal dating methods applied to for instance the Danish burgh of Trelleborg, was dendrochronology (counting of growth rings in wood). Niels Ishøj Christensen thinks that the wood that was found was only from the last restauration of the burgh before it was abandoned.

Regarding other finds, Christensen says: "In my opinion, the loose finds of remains from the Viking Age - ceramics, loom weights, combs, iron tools, weapons etc., collected within the ringwall during the excavations 1934-42, proved that the site had been used by people at the end of the Viking Age, not that the whole construction site was erected in 980-81. Poul Nørlund had regarded the bowl-formed Viking Age fibula of ca. 950-1000, which was found in a fireplace at the courtyard, to lay below one of the burgh's longhouses, and accordingly to be older than the house. But also the opposite could be the case - the house may have laid there first, but had become decayed or burnt down, and later the fireplace where the fibula was found could have been dug into the ground of the old house."
(Niels Ishøj Christensen: Den store konges borg – På sporet av det skjulte Trelleborg (Forlaget Loke, Søborg, 2007; ISBN-10: 8799173301, ISBN-13: 978-8799173303))

This only to visualize how difficult the dating of ringwall-burghs is. One thing is for sure: the ringwall-burgh type is much older than the Viking Age.
The Dore Hill Fort near Fowey in Cornwall, for instance, is dated to the 4th century BC - it even seems to have 6 gates instead of 4.
http://www.historic-...castle_dore.htm
http://www.historyfi...ainCornubia.htm

The same seems to have been the case with the ringwallburgh of Hamaland in Appel, Gelderland, discovered in 2006.
http://dutchcastles....len-deel-1.html

Edited by Apol, 09 March 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#2663    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

 Abramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

And that's what I would do too.

But apparently in Dutch - and only in Dutch - it becomes "Marsaten" or "Marezaten" (older Dutch").

But who changed a -K- into a -- TSH- ? That's the Frisians.

.

 Abramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

And that's what I would do too.

But apparently in Dutch - and only in Dutch - it becomes "Marsaten" or "Marezaten" (older Dutch").

But who changed a -K- into a -- TSH- ? That's the Frisians.

.

What is sâta exactly anyway? (and why is it dweller)

Thêr to boppa hêdon wi tha nôma Landsâton, Mârsata aend Holtjefta Wodsâta.
sod (n.1) "slice of earth with grass on it," early 15c., apparently from Middle Dutch sode "turf," Middle Low German sode, or Old Frisian satha "sod," all of uncertain origin.
http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=sod

Old Frisian satha/sod - piece of earth with grass on it/turf   

Mar-satha

sâth-a

6, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Rasen (M.); ne. sod; Hw.: vgl. mnd. sôde; Q.: E;
E.: ?; W.: saterl. sade; L.: Hh 89b, Hh 171, Rh 1001a

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 March 2013 - 12:05 PM.

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#2664    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

 Apol, on 09 March 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

One of the principal dating methods applied to for instance the Danish burgh of Trelleborg, was dendrochronology (counting of growth rings in wood). Niels Ishøj Christensen thinks that the wood that was found was only from the last restauration of the burgh before it was abandoned.

Regarding other finds, Christensen says: "In my opinion, the loose finds of remains from the Viking Age - ceramics, loom weights, combs, iron tools, weapons etc., collected within the ringwall during the excavations 1934-42, proved that the site had been used by people at the end of the Viking Age, not that the whole construction site was erected in 980-81. Poul Nørlund had regarded the bowl-formed Viking Age fibula of ca. 950-1000, which was found in a fireplace at the courtyard, to lay below one of the burgh's longhouses, and accordingly to be older than the house. But also the opposite could be the case - the house may have laid there first, but had become decayed or burnt down, and later the fireplace where the fibula was found could have been dug into the ground of the old house."
(Niels Ishøj Christensen: Den store konges borg – På sporet av det skjulte Trelleborg (Forlaget Loke, Søborg, 2007; ISBN-10: 8799173301, ISBN-13: 978-8799173303))

This only to visualize how difficult the dating of ringwall-burghs is. One thing is for sure: the ringwall-burgh type is much older than the Viking Age. The Dore Hill Fort near Fowey in Cornwall, for instance, is dated to the 4th century BC - it even seems to have 6 gates instead of 4.
http://www.historic-...castle_dore.htm
www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsBritain/BritainCornubia.htm

I agree those ringforts may be older, but I was actually talking about the Dutch ringwall burghs.

And the dates of these burghs have been established in recent decades, not in the 1930's.


#2665    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

 The Puzzler, on 09 March 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

What is sâta exactly anyway? (and why is it dweller)

Thêr to boppa hêdon wi tha nôma Landsâton, Mârsata aend Holtjefta Wodsâta.
sod (n.1) "slice of earth with grass on it," early 15c., apparently from Middle Dutch sode "turf," Middle Low German sode, or Old Frisian satha "sod," all of uncertain origin.
http://www.etymonlin...ex.php?term=sod

Old Frisian satha/sod - piece of earth with grass on it/turf   

Mar-satha

sâth-a

6, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Rasen (M.); ne. sod; Hw.: vgl. mnd. sôde; Q.: E;
E.: ?; W.: saterl. sade; L.: Hh 89b, Hh 171, Rh 1001a

We have been there before: sata = seated, or in Dutch, 'ge-zetenen', 'zittenden'


#2666    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:19 PM

ingezetenen residents, citizens, in Old Frisian, "inseten".

*sæt-a (1), afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Sasse, Sitzender; ne. settler; Vw.: s. bê-n-,
lan-d-; Hw.: s. dru-st-a; vgl. ahd. *sazo?; E.: s. germ. *setæ-, *setæn, *seta-, *setan,
sw. M. (n), Sitzender; vgl. idg. *sed- (A), V., sitzen, Pokorny 884; L.:


http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-S.pdf


#2667    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

moor (n.)
"waste ground," Old English mor "morass, swamp," from Proto-Germanic *mora- (cf. Old Saxon, Middle Dutch, Dutch meer "swamp," Old High German muor "swamp," also "sea," German Moor "moor," Old Norse mörr "moorland," marr "sea"), perhaps related to mere (n.), or from root *mer- "to die," hence "dead land."

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

morass (n.)
"wet, swampy tract," 1650s, from Dutch moeras "marsh, fen," from Middle Dutch marasch, from Old French marais "marsh," from Frankish, possibly from West Germanic *marisk, from Proto-Germanic *mariskaz "like a lake," from *mari "sea" (see mere (n.)). The word was influenced in Dutch by moer "moor" (see moor (n.)). Figurative use is attested from 1867. Replaced earlier mareis (early 14c.; see marish).

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none


From Marsac(i) to Marasc ??

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...VMNW&id=ID14016

It's interesting to note that this word ("marasc") for morass, swamp is restricted to the area of West-Flanders, just where some locate the Marsacii.


#2668    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

 Abramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Why?

The Aken/Liêge area.has nothing to do with the Fly or with Lake Flevo.

Click to enlarge:

FLYLAND.jpg

.

I should add that the further back you go in time, the smaller Lake Flevo becomes. That means that the South Flylands shift even further to the north.

And not only Jakob van Lennep calls the lake (a) "Meir", but you can read it in an older Dutch source (18th century):

http://books.google....s flevo&f=false

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 March 2013 - 01:12 PM.


#2669    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

I cannot add to this epic thread as it is not in my scope of expertise, though it is of interest to me, particulary the linguistic aspects. I have learnt more about this subject here than from any other form of media. Thanks to all posters here, some of whom must surely be proffesors in real life.


#2670    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

 Atentutankh-pasheri, on 09 March 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

I cannot add to this epic thread as it is not in my scope of expertise, though it is of interest to me, particulary the linguistic aspects. I have learnt more about this subject here than from any other form of media. Thanks to all posters here, some of whom must surely be proffesors in real life.

Thanks for the compliment, Atentutankh, but that last remark must have been made 'tongue in cheek', right?

Lol.





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