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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2671    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Thanks for the compliment, Atentutankh, but that last remark must have been made 'tongue in cheek', right?

Lol.
No, it was serious :blush:


#2672    Apol

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

I should add that the further back you go in time, the smaller Lake Flevo becomes. That means that the South Flylands shift even further to the north.

And not only Jakob van Lennep calls the lake (a) "Meir", but you can read it in an older Dutch source (18th century):

http://books.google....s flevo&f=false

.

Yes, it's all a mystery. Wish someone could come up with a good idea or some find which clears it up.


#2673    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:25 PM

I hope the next is one mystery solved:

Posted Image

Izaak Tirion -  1750 (map of the Old Netherlands)
http://wiki.toenleid...0/Kaart_009.jpg

http://wiki.toenleid...estein_-_totaal


Bitburg originated approximately 2000 years ago as a stopover for traffic from Lyon, through Metz and Trier to Cologne. The first mentioned name was “Vicus Beda”. Emperor Constantine the Great expanded the settlement to a road castle around 330, the central part of which forms the town centre to the present day. Bitburg is first documented only after the end of the Roman Empire around 715 as “castrum bedense”. It subsequently became part of Franconia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitburg

So I was thinking that "Buda" could have been this "Beda".


#2674    Knul

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:44 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

Kennemerland gets its name from the Kennemer people, who were Frisians that fought with the Counts of Holland and lost in the Middle Ages. The name is said to derive from the Canninefates.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kennemerland

I agree with that, but did it belong to the Frisian political structure ? E.g. an important old city like Haarlem has not been mentioned in the OLB, nor other castles in Kennemerland. By the way, what makes you think Waraburch was on Wieringen ?


#2675    Knul

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

I hope the next is one mystery solved:

Posted Image

Izaak Tirion -  1750 (map of the Old Netherlands)
http://wiki.toenleid...0/Kaart_009.jpg

http://wiki.toenleid...estein_-_totaal


Bitburg originated approximately 2000 years ago as a stopover for traffic from Lyon, through Metz and Trier to Cologne. The first mentioned name was “Vicus Beda”. Emperor Constantine the Great expanded the settlement to a road castle around 330, the central part of which forms the town centre to the present day. Bitburg is first documented only after the end of the Roman Empire around 715 as “castrum bedense”. It subsequently became part of Franconia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitburg

So I was thinking that "Buda" could have been this "Beda".

Well found, but Beda is not Buda in the area of the Haga Fenna and Walda. On the same map you find in Frisia the wood (Walda) Baduhenna, which could be something like Wald of Buda (Badu).

Edited by Knul, 09 March 2013 - 02:50 PM.


#2676    gestur

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 09 March 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

I cannot add to this epic thread as it is not in my scope of expertise, though it is of interest to me, particularly the linguistic aspects. I have learnt more about this subject here than from any other form of media. Thanks to all posters here, some of whom must surely be professors in real life.

спасибо

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#2677    Knul

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostApol, on 09 March 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

This is the picture of the Flílands that I've had in my head:
http://s1305.beta.ph...e943d5.jpg.html

...but your theory is very interesting and really worth studying thoroughly, so I'm absolutely not stuck to it.
My old view is even contradicting my own theory that Bvda may have been in the Nijmegen area.
Kattaburgh in Katwijk is worth considering. Also that Ljvdburch may have been another place than in Liège. It's hard though not to see Aken as having been elsewhere than in Aachen, but I'm open to everything.

Âtland was NOT in the North Sea, though. "The Findas" - which means the Middle Easterners - came originally from Âtland:
http://s1305.beta.ph...d6b3c6.jpg.html

Finda's People became to the Frisians, as time went by, more and more identical to the Middle Easterners. It's because they became 'possessed' by them - especially after their invasion of the north, like we have a tendency of being 'possessed' by the Moslems and the Jews of the Middle East in our time. It's an old connection there - a deeply rooted fear which we still haven't managed to handle.

But why do you mean that Kennemerland didn't belong to the Frisian territory?

See my quote about Baduhenna with Abramelin.


#2678    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

We have been there before: sata = seated, or in Dutch, 'ge-zetenen', 'zittenden'

It only became that.

It's really 'a piece of earth with grass on it' - also a 'sod'. (in OLB as sâdum) - became seat and also means turf, your home-turf, where you live.

mâr in Frisian and it's probably closest to 'mire', which is a fen/moor/swamp/bog.

mâr

(1) 5, mêr (1), afries., M.: nhd. Graben (M.), Grenze; ne. ditch (N.), border

(N.); Vw.: s. hâ-m-merk-e-, ho-f-, *merk-e-, thor-p-, -wei; Hw.: vgl. an. marr (1),

ae. m’re, ahd. meri; Q.: H, W, E, F; E.: s. germ. *mari-, *mariz, st. N. (i), Meer,

Wasser; idg. *mÅri, Sb., Meer, See (F.), Pokorny 748; L.: Hh 69a, Rh 916a.

ditch: trench, moat, dam, pond

A pond or ditch with water would have also been seen as a lake or what they called it, a mâr, and the dwellers on it therefore called mâr-sâta - it's Frisian.

I think it's important to remember the OLB words are not Dutch, they are Fryan, or a very Old Frisian and should contain elements before the Dutch language evolved, which might be still found in English. They appear to be very early meanings contained within them that then went on to expand further in meanings as the words spread, like in the Dutch language.

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 March 2013 - 03:30 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2679    Knul

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:03 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

On what do you base that Aldland was in the north? Olaus Rudbeck's book?
Simply because no land has been mentioned north. In the OLB Texel is seen as a remnant of the sunken land and therefore the oldest witness of the former Frisian culture. Maybe Abramelin is right with his Doggerbank theory.


#2680    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:06 PM

View PostApol, on 09 March 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Yes, it's all a mystery. Wish someone could come up with a good idea or some find which clears it up.
To be honest I missed what you are looking for but found this map along the way, maybe you've seen it, maybe it's of help, I don't know but thought I'd pass it on...

Posted Image
http://en.wikipedia....€“Scheldt_delta

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2681    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

View PostKnul, on 09 March 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Simply because no land has been mentioned north. In the OLB Texel is seen as a remnant of the sunken land and therefore the oldest witness of the former Frisian culture. Maybe Abramelin is right with his Doggerbank theory.

And I have said that Doggerland/Doggers Bank was not far away from Fryan land, because that was mainland Europe.

Doggerland was once connected with the European mainland so hardly 'far away'.

In short: the Doggers bank or Doggerland could not have been Aldland.

And most importantly: Doggerland finally submerged around 6150 BCE, Dogger Island around 5000 BCE. That thousands of years before 2194 BCE.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 March 2013 - 03:22 PM.


#2682    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

View PostKnul, on 09 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Well found, but Beda is not Buda in the area of the Haga Fenna and Walda. On the same map you find in Frisia the wood (Walda) Baduhenna, which could be something like Wald of Buda (Badu).

It is, in the the Hohes Venn - Eifel area.

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
[img]http://www.eifeltour...Karte.bmpp/img]

And... Büdesheim is a municipality in the district of Bitburg-Prüm, in Rhineland-Palatinate, western Germany.

http://de.wikipedia....wiki/Büdesheim

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 March 2013 - 03:19 PM.


#2683    Abramelin

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:24 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 09 March 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

It only became that.

It's really 'a piece of earth with grass on it' - also a 'sod'. (in OLB as sâdum) - became seat and also means turf, your home-turf, where you live.

mâr in Frisian and it's probably closest to 'mire', which is a fen/moor/swamp/bog.

mâr

(1) 5, mêr (1), afries., M.: nhd. Graben (M.), Grenze; ne. ditch (N.), border

(N.); Vw.: s. hâ-m-merk-e-, ho-f-, *merk-e-, thor-p-, -wei; Hw.: vgl. an. marr (1),

ae. m’re, ahd. meri; Q.: H, W, E, F; E.: s. germ. *mari-, *mariz, st. N. (i), Meer,

Wasser; idg. *mÅri, Sb., Meer, See (F.), Pokorny 748; L.: Hh 69a, Rh 916a.

ditch: trench, moat, dam, pond

A pond or ditch would have also been seen as a small lake, and the dwellers on it therefore called mâr-sâta - it's Frisian.

I think it's important to remember the OLB words are not Dutch, they are Fryan, or a very Old Frisian and should contain elements before the Dutch language evolved, which might be still found in English. They appear to be very early meanings contained within them that then went on to expand further in meanings as the words spread, like in the Dutch language.

English don't say Meer, we have mire and moor but not Mare or Meer of which neither should be in the OLB and as far as I know, aren't.

You appear to forget I  got the meaning of 'sata' from a Old Frisian dictionary. It's just that we still use it in Dutch (changed, but still).

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

ingezetenen residents, citizens, in Old Frisian, "inseten".

*sæt-a (1), afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Sasse, Sitzender; ne. settler; Vw.: s. bê-n-,
lan-d-; Hw.: s. dru-st-a; vgl. ahd. *sazo?; E.: s. germ. *setæ-, *setæn, *seta-, *setan,
sw. M. (n), Sitzender; vgl. idg. *sed- (A), V., sitzen, Pokorny 884; L.:


http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-S.pdf


Edited by Abramelin, 09 March 2013 - 03:37 PM.


#2684    The Puzzler

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

You appear to forget I  got the meaning of 'sata' from a Old Frisian dictionary. It's just that we still use it in Dutch (changed, but still).
OK you beat me, I was just going to say I missed that in your posts. I'll see what difference it makes to me. It's near 2am, my thinking is a bit blurry.

Point being, mar-sata is a Frisian word.

I'd also bet sod and settler are the same root deep down.

Strange is, that Marseille - with seille as Latin sella (seat) could mean 'water seat' in Latin. Water settlers. Even though this is not the name meaning the OLB gives for Fryan meaning.

Edited by The Puzzler, 09 March 2013 - 04:24 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2685    Knul

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 March 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

And I have said that Doggerland/Doggers Bank was not far away from Fryan land, because that was mainland Europe.

Doggerland was once connected with the European mainland so hardly 'far away'.

In short: the Doggers bank or Doggerland could not have been Aldland.

And most importantly: Doggerland finally submerged around 6150 BCE, Dogger Island around 5000 BCE. That thousands of years before 2194 BCE.

.

s. http://nl.wikipedia....iki/Doggersbank

I know you discussed this before, but why would Aldland be on the other side of Europe, when the OLB refers to 'so many years after Aldland has been sunken'. That must be understood as the former north of Frisia or close to Frisia. On this wikipedia site the Dutch area of the continental pla is shown in light-blue colour: s. http://nl.wikipedia....conomische_Zone., adjacent to the Doggerbank.

Edited by Knul, 09 March 2013 - 04:13 PM.





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