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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3016    gestur

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

this map is useless

It is from a book (2012) by Dr._Henstra from Enkhuizen.
He wrote his doctor-thesis in 2000 (Groningen) and has more authority than librarian Knul.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3017    gestur

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:27 AM

I am the first to admit that scholars are not by definition always more right than amateurs, but if an amateur (or alternative historian) makes eccentric statements like "Dorestad never existed", "Amor-land was the area of Amer-s-foort" and "that map is useless", he needs to give good arguments.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3018    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Not imaginary, but a misunderstanding. The only source is a monk of Ravenna (ca. 700), who tells that Dorestates (indicated as patria Frisonum) is at the mouth of the Rhine river. The place called Dorestad is 80 km inland. You will not find any old map which shows Dorestad. This is strange, because Dorestad has been regarded as the most important trade place of the early mediaevals. The real name of the so called Dorestad is Vic (lat. vicus, Wijk). They say that Dorestad suddenly disappeared, but the fact is that it never appeared.

Kaart van Blaeu

Kaart van Jansonius

Kaart van Ortelius

Kaart van Tirion

All those maps depict the situation during Roman times, and yes: Dorestad didn't exist during those times.

And at some point in time (during the early middle ages), the North Sea had intruded much further inland and the distance between North Sea and Dorestad would not have been 80 km at all.

Btw: Noordwijk is only 4 miles north of Katwijk. The map Gestur posted is not 'useless'.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 March 2013 - 09:16 AM.


#3019    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:28 AM

View PostKnul, on 21 March 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

Amor-land was not under 'Dorestad' but the area of Amer-s-foort. The Rhine did not end at Noordwijk but at Katwijk. So this map is useless.

Posted Image


Posted Image

http://www.keesn.nl/...rem/en3_map.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamaland
http://paulbuddehist...europe/holland/
http://www.graafscha...t-hamaland.html


#3020    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:40 AM

View Postgestur, on 21 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Exactly.

And adding to what was said in the last three posts (Apol, NO-ID-EA and Puzzler):
Most archaeological finds are labelled "Germanic", "Keltic", "(Anglo-) Saxon" (since '45 the label 'Germanic' is less popular), while some might as well have been labelled "Frisian".

History, including archaeology are for a part politically relevant as they help create or sustain a national identity, even more so in these times of secularization.

I can't copy the photo's, but in another thread there are finds in the the Römisch-Germanische Museum in Köln of a big 6-spoked wheel (remains) and this was said:



=> In the catalogue of the exhibition it was explained that the Franks in the 4th and 5th century systematically destroyed all 'pagan'symbols, like this wheel. This will surely also have happened with texts that might have been saved until then.

In this museum was also a bowl (dated: first ten years of CE) with the name Horus scratched on it with a 'Fryan' H (although it may also have been meant as an L: Lorus?, because that is sometimes written as a mirrored Greek Lambda), but the photo is not very clear. I hope someone can make a better picture of it some day.

The Greek alphabet has no H, and the Latin one is the same as our capital H.

Typical is that in the explanation this name was not mentioned, while that of another bowl (in normal letters) in the same showcase was.

My point is, that once archaeologists go look for JOL script, they may find more of it.

Many letters that diverge from the classic ancient alphabets as we know them can be found here: http://otharus.tumblr.com/

Like I said in this post :

http://www.unexplain...00#entry4056496

The 'thorn with stroke' Posted Image is the letter to look for. It resembles the OLB -TH- most.

But it's from the early middle ages; you'll never find it as a rune or in any other older script.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 March 2013 - 09:41 AM.


#3021    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:51 AM

View PostApol, on 21 March 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

We don't know where the inscriptions were placed - if they were written on the very burgh-walls or on the walls of the houses inside the burghs. The houses may have been made of materials other than stone. In the burgh of Ljudgârda they were made of bricks. If the writings were on the burgh-walls, or on stone in general, we do not know whether they were cut into the stone or painted onto it. Moreover, the inscriptions on the burgh-walls would have been the very first that would fall prey to the conquerors' ravage - they would have been annihilated in the most thorough ways. Another problem is that today the remnants of several of the ancient burghs seem to lay under cities.

There you see, the six spoked wheel of the Bronze Age priest may be one artifact with correlation to the OLB. The point is that what has survived the ravages of time, and what has not, is quite random.

The 'Tex' was inscribed on the walls of the burghs, which were made of brick. And no one paints on brick, they engrave in brick. Or else they had to repaint the whole text after every rain shower., which would be kind of dumb.

There are no remnants of very ancient burghs (OLB age that is) lying under the cities, those are the remnants of medieval ringwall burghs that were created as a defense against attacks from the Vikings.

The 6-spoked wheel of the Bronze Age priest may have been a nice find, but 8-spoked wheels were used as much as - or even more than - 6 spoked wheels.


#3022    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

View Postgestur, on 20 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

I could label your theory that the OLB was concocted a 'conspiracy theory'.
It is a term often used to discredit 'alternative' explanations of an accepted reality.

It is a fallacy.
Let's not go there.

A conspiracy theory purports to explain an important social, political, or economic event as being caused or covered up by a covert group or organization.

http://en.wikipedia....nspiracy_theory

That is more or less what Otharus repeatedly suggested: that the 'truth' is being hidden or ridiculized

And all that because this 'truth' would turn accepted history upside down.

Well, you may have read about the finds in Anatolia (for instance Göbekli Tepe); they were not hidden from the public, though they created some sort of revolution of the known pre-history.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 March 2013 - 10:19 AM.


#3023    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:30 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 21 March 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

As i keep being told !.... just because someone is given a name at some time in history does not mean you are going to find traces of them under that name , the name may have been given to them by their enemies , as a derogatory name , as the area they came from , or from hearsay , and may be nothing like what they called themselves ,it may have been given them by the archaeologist who first uncovered traces of them in order to record his find .

a name like Hattians or Hittites would have been un-aspirated in biblical times TTNS or TTTS and could well be a name which was wrongly aspirated like Titans , maybe Tatar or even Attica (often the h being a silent letter)..........all those Ts in the same approximate area , could make you think of a God they may have worshipped in the Gobekli Tepe vicinity .or maybe just their TAT's

The name the Hittites gave themselves was Neša or people of Neša.

But not this name, nor Hittites show up in the OLB. Of course not every known ancient people have to show up in the OLB, but these guys were very present all over the Middle East and may have been closely related to the people of Troy.

And 'Hittite' was not a derogatory name, it was the name an invading people adopted from a people, the Hatti, who already lived there.

As I said, there are those who think that the Germanic (?) Chatti were these Hittites, but aside of the name, nothing points to them coming from Anatolia.


#3024    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:09 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:



There has been quite some debate about the location to which the Ewa ad Amorem applies. Originally, Pertz (1835, cited by Gaupp, 1855) had the idea that it had been codified at Xanten. However, Gaupp (1855) disagreed: he suggested, the law came from Hamaland, the region of the Chamave tribe. In modern geographical terms this is the eastern part of the Dutch province of Gelderland (including the area around the river IJssel and the eastern part of De Betuwe). Therefore, he suggested the name Lex Francorum Chamavorum. This name has been adopted by many scholars.

Fruin (in a study from 1924, cited by Niermeyer, 1953 and Halbertsma, 2000) looked to the west of The Netherlands, to the present Alblasserwaard. The names Groot Ammers and Ammerstol would refer to the river Amor (or Ammor) that used to flow here. In that case, Amor-land would be a rather small territory.

In 1953, Niermeyer made a thorough analysis of all available date. In his opinion, Amor-land was the whole central Dutch river area: De Betuwe, Maas and Waal and, to the west, Teisterbant. Possibly, further north, the present province of Utrecht could also be considered part of the Amor-area.

This latter vision has not been challenged since, although Algra (2000, p. 92, without source) still mentions Hamaland. I assume, with Blok (1968) and Halbertsma (2000), that Niermeyer is nearest the truth, with the central Dutch river area. Luit van der Tuuk (2005 and pers. comm.) argues that Dorestad was at the border between Frisia and Amorland. This would imply that Amorland was south of the river Rhine and that it did not stretch into the present province of Utrecht, as suggested by Niermeyer.

Anyway, the name Lex Francorum Chamavorum is dubious. Therefore, I have used the name Ewa ad Amorem throughout this article.

http://www.keesn.nl/...m/en1_intro.htm


#3025    Apol

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:26 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

The 'Tex' was inscribed on the walls of the burghs, which were made of brick. And no one paints on brick, they engrave in brick. Or else they had to repaint the whole text after every rain shower., which would be kind of dumb.

There are no remnants of very ancient burghs (OLB age that is) lying under the cities, those are the remnants of medieval ringwall burghs that were created as a defense against attacks from the Vikings.

The 6-spoked wheel of the Bronze Age priest may have been a nice find, but 8-spoked wheels were used as much as - or even more than - 6 spoked wheels.

I don't think brick is a good material neither for painting nor for cutting texts into. It might be done, but I don't think prominent texts like the ones mentioned in the OLB were written on brickstone.

If texts were painted and not under a projecting roof - for example under a walkway, they would have been exposed to weather, yes.

Anyway, I find it most probable that the texts were written somewhere inside the burghs, for example on the inner burgh-wall. The staffs of the burghs would then be able to read them without being forced to walk out and around the fortification.

The ringwall-burghs in The Netherlands are dated to the Viking Age, that's right. But, as said before, of various reasons there are different opinions about the subject.

'Abramelin', do you have some more information about the spoked priest in Schleswig-Holstein? I haven't heard about him before.

Edited by Apol, 22 March 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#3026    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:36 AM

Here it is (assuming you mean the 6-spoked wheel, not the 6-spoked priest, lol):

http://www.unexplain...65#entry3752000

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 22 March 2013 - 11:42 AM.


#3027    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

You may find this post interesting too:

Could the loss have been the result of an ordinary storm flood? This was not very likely. because in that case the survivors would probably have tried to salvage some of the valuable plates. However, so many plates lay so close to each other that we almost have to conclude that there were no survivors. The most likely - and very spectacular - explanation is that the copper mining stopped suddenly as a result of some catastrophic loss of a large part of the south of the Oberland. The catastrophe must have been caused by sudden movements of the salt and gypsum layers underneath Heligoland. This catastrophe must have led to a tsunami-like wave in the North Sea; many of its shores must have been damaged to a larger degree than any ordinary storm flood has ever done.

How old are the copper plates? In the 1970s researchers measured radioactivity from organic material on the plates and concluded that they had been made between about 1140 and 1340 AD. This was a surprising result, because contemporary chronicles neither mention copper mining on Heligoland nor a catastrophe resembling a tsunami. Later researchers made more accurate measurements of the radioactivity and so we know that the plates must have been made many centuries earlier, almost certainly before the people around the North Sea could write, which could explain the lack of written evidence of a tsunami. Of course, the origin of the copper plates is still mysterious and hopefully we wil find out more in the nearby future."


http://www.unexplain...2

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 22 March 2013 - 11:52 AM.


#3028    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

I was trying to find (for the Doggerland thread) some new results of the research done in Skara Brae (Orkneys), and particularly the submerged Neolithic structure divers have found nearby, a year or so ago.

But I found something that is more interesting for this thread instead....

The OLB says that 'before the bad time came' (in 2194 BCE) Britain was the penal colony of the Fryans. Would that include what's now the Orkneys??

We have discussed the script invented by the Fryans. according to the OLB. Well, what has actually been found from before 2194 BCE?


Skara Brae is a stone-built Neolithic settlement, located on the Bay of Skaill on the west coast of Mainland, the largest island in the Orkney archipelago of Scotland. It consists of eight clustered houses, and was occupied from roughly 3180 BCE–2500 BCE.

Posted Image

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Skara_Brae



Stonehenge People: An Exploration of Life in Neolithic Britain 4700-2000 BC
Rodney Castleden

http://books.google....People.&f=false

And look at this page from the book:

Posted Image

If this is really a script, then it doesn't look much like the OLB script.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 March 2013 - 03:41 PM.


#3029    Knul

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 March 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

There has been quite some debate about the location to which the Ewa ad Amorem applies. Originally, Pertz (1835, cited by Gaupp, 1855) had the idea that it had been codified at Xanten. However, Gaupp (1855) disagreed: he suggested, the law came from Hamaland, the region of the Chamave tribe. In modern geographical terms this is the eastern part of the Dutch province of Gelderland (including the area around the river IJssel and the eastern part of De Betuwe). Therefore, he suggested the name Lex Francorum Chamavorum. This name has been adopted by many scholars.

Fruin (in a study from 1924, cited by Niermeyer, 1953 and Halbertsma, 2000) looked to the west of The Netherlands, to the present Alblasserwaard. The names Groot Ammers and Ammerstol would refer to the river Amor (or Ammor) that used to flow here. In that case, Amor-land would be a rather small territory.

In 1953, Niermeyer made a thorough analysis of all available date. In his opinion, Amor-land was the whole central Dutch river area: De Betuwe, Maas and Waal and, to the west, Teisterbant. Possibly, further north, the present province of Utrecht could also be considered part of the Amor-area.

This latter vision has not been challenged since, although Algra (2000, p. 92, without source) still mentions Hamaland. I assume, with Blok (1968) and Halbertsma (2000), that Niermeyer is nearest the truth, with the central Dutch river area. Luit van der Tuuk (2005 and pers. comm.) argues that Dorestad was at the border between Frisia and Amorland. This would imply that Amorland was south of the river Rhine and that it did not stretch into the present province of Utrecht, as suggested by Niermeyer.

Anyway, the name Lex Francorum Chamavorum is dubious. Therefore, I have used the name Ewa ad Amorem throughout this article.

http://www.keesn.nl/...m/en1_intro.htm

Here again you see, that the non existing Dorestad is used to divide Frisia from Amorland. However, Central Frisia consisted of Westergo, Oostergo and Bornego. In that area the Lex Frisicum was applied. In the Niedersachsen area (Overijssel, Hamalant) the Ewa ad Amorem was apllied. The river Amer is regarded as the Eem river.

Edited by Knul, 22 March 2013 - 05:07 PM.


#3030    Abramelin

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostKnul, on 22 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Here again you see, that the non existing Dorestad is used to divide Frisia from Amorland. However, Central Frisia consisted of Westergo, Oostergo and Bornego. In that area the Lex Frisicum was applied. In the Niedersachsen area (Overijssel, Hamalant) the Ewa ad Amorem was apllied. The river Amer is regarded as the Eem river.

As you can read in my quote, it's only Luit van der Tuuk who uses Dorestad as an argument for his location of the border between Amorland and Frisia.

Did you read all of the site, btw?





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