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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3076    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:28 AM

And all this mixing of Jesus and Buddha, Christianity ,Hinduism, Buddhism and so on, made me think of this:


According to pastor Halbertsma Buddha was a reformer of Hinduism who campaigned against the Brahmins (priests), statues, rituals and sacrifices. Poorthuis: "He compared Hinduism with the Roman Catholic Church . Many Dutch still strongly feel that Buddhism is a kind of pure reform, also of the Christianity with its power and institutions. With this they unconsciously create a sort of Calvinistic Buddhism, which claims to fight against hierarchy, rituals and institutions. "

____


Believe it or not, Buddhism in our country began with a pastor. It was the Frisian Mennonite pastor Joast Hiddes Halbertsma who in 1843 wrote the booklet "The Buddhism and its founder. He had previously written about "witte wieven", earrings and Easter eggs, and it was thus ok to add something extra exotic. So it was Buddhism, which in terms of language, Sanskrit, even would have been akin to the Hindelopense dialect according to the minister.


http://www.unexplain...80#entry3954584


#3077    Knul

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:42 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 March 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

And all this mixing of Jesus and Buddha, Christianity ,Hinduism, Buddhism and so on, made me think of this:


According to pastor Halbertsma Buddha was a reformer of Hinduism who campaigned against the Brahmins (priests), statues, rituals and sacrifices. Poorthuis: "He compared Hinduism with the Roman Catholic Church . Many Dutch still strongly feel that Buddhism is a kind of pure reform, also of the Christianity with its power and institutions. With this they unconsciously create a sort of Calvinistic Buddhism, which claims to fight against hierarchy, rituals and institutions. "

____


Believe it or not, Buddhism in our country began with a pastor. It was the Frisian Mennonite pastor Joast Hiddes Halbertsma who in 1843 wrote the booklet "The Buddhism and its founder. He had previously written about "witte wieven", earrings and Easter eggs, and it was thus ok to add something extra exotic. So it was Buddhism, which in terms of language, Sanskrit, even would have been akin to the Hindelopense dialect according to the minister.


http://www.unexplain...80#entry3954584

Interesting. Some have doubted about the time Jesus shows up in the OLB. Wouldn't you think that it is a matter of reincarnation Buddha, Krishna and Jesus ?


#3078    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostKnul, on 25 March 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Interesting. Some have doubted about the time Jesus shows up in the OLB. Wouldn't you think that it is a matter of reincarnation Buddha, Krishna and Jesus ?

That is what many people already thought in the 19th century.

And for me there is no doubt about when he showed up according to the OLB: it's around 2200 BCE.


#3079    Knul

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:58 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 March 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

But how does that fit into this paragraph which is obviously about a list of things growing on trees and in the fields:


That stêt vp alle burgum eskrêven.

Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send. Among tha gaers-sêdum hedon wi navt alena kêren, ljaver aend blyde, men âk swete thêr lik gold blikte aend thaet maen vndera svnnastrêla bakja kvste. Jêron ne wrde navt ne telath, hwand thaet êne jêr was alsa blyd as et ôthera.

Sandbach:

THIS STANDS INSCRIBED UPON ALL CITADELS.

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. The trees and shrubs produced various fruits, which are now lost. In the fields we had not only barley, oats, and rye, but wheat which shone like gold, and which could be baked in the sun’s rays. The years were not counted, for one was as happy as another.



+++

EDIT:

In the next quote it is obvious that something Biblical was meant:


thessa byldon jâvon hja antha vnaerg thaenkanda ljuda, to longa lersta sêidon hja thaet Jes-us en drochten wêre, thaet-i thaet selva an hjam bilêden hêde, aend thaet alle thêr an him aend an sina lêra lâwa wilde, nêimels in sin kêningkrik kvme skolde, hwêr frü is aend nochta send.

deze beelden gaven zij aan de onerg ("argeloos") denkende lieden, te lange leste zeiden zij dat Jes-us een Heer ware, dat-ie dat zelve aan hen belijd had, ende dat alle die aan hem ende zijn leer ge-loven wilden, namaals in zijn koninkrijk komen zulden, waar vreugde is en ge-neugten zijn.

They gave these statues to simple/guileless people, and at last they said that Jes-us was a god (Lord), that he had declared this himself to them, and that all those who followed his doctrine should enter his kingdom hereafter, where all was joy and pleasure/delight.


Ottema changed Jes-us into Jessos. Why? I think I know why: because if you didn't know any better, you'd think you were reading about Jesus/Christianity, and he wanted that similarity to be less obvious.

.

enter his kindom is obviously taken from the Our Lord's prayer  'thou kingdom will come'.

I think you should leave the idiomatic expression as it is:  vruchten en genugten and not try to explain genugten, because it has no specific meaning of some sort of fruit. I understand, that it is hard to translate. In OLB you see what happens when one tries to translate the Dutch 'hoezee' in something like hoe een zee, which of course is meaningless. Idiomatic expressions belong to the literary side of the OLB.

Edited by Knul, 25 March 2013 - 12:01 PM.


#3080    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostKnul, on 25 March 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

enter his kindom is obviously taken from the Our Lord's prayer  'thou kingdom will come'.

I think you should leave the idiomatic expression as it is:  vruchten en genugten and not try to explain genugten, because it has no specific meaning of some sort of fruit. I understand, that it is hard to translate. In OLB you see what happens when one tries to translate the Dutch 'hoezee' in something like hoe een zee, which of course is meaningless. Idiomatic expressions belong to the literary side of the OLB.

Bolded part: yes, that is ok for the quote about Jes-us, but I still have some problems using the 'vruchten en geneugten' for the quote about the trees and fields because it is obvious that in that quote they are summing up what grew on trees and in the fields.


#3081    Apol

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 March 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

Its literal meaning is 'nuts', its metaphorical meaning is 'delights'.

Here it can not mean 'enough':

Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta,

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. On the trees and shrubs grew fruits and nuts.

According to you it should be:
Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. On the trees and shrubs grew fruits and enough.

On the trees grew pleasures and delights!


#3082    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostApol, on 25 March 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

On the trees grew pleasures and delights!

Then how about the full quote:

That stêt vp alle burgum eskrêven.

Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send. Among tha gaers-sêdum hedon wi navt alena kêren, ljaver aend blyde, men âk swete thêr lik gold blikte aend thaet maen vndera svnnastrêla bakja kvste. Jêron ne wrde navt ne telath, hwand thaet êne jêr was alsa blyd as et ôthera.


Sandbach:

THIS STANDS INSCRIBED UPON ALL CITADELS.

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. The trees and shrubs produced various fruits, which are now lost. In the fields we had not only barley, oats, and rye, but wheat which shone like gold, and which could be baked in the sun’s rays. The years were not counted, for one was as happy as another.


http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#au

Like I told Knul, it's a list of things that grew on trees and in the fields.


#3083    Apol

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:58 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 March 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Then how about the full quote:

That stêt vp alle burgum eskrêven.

Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send. Among tha gaers-sêdum hedon wi navt alena kêren, ljaver aend blyde, men âk swete thêr lik gold blikte aend thaet maen vndera svnnastrêla bakja kvste. Jêron ne wrde navt ne telath, hwand thaet êne jêr was alsa blyd as et ôthera.


Sandbach:

THIS STANDS INSCRIBED UPON ALL CITADELS.

Before the bad time came our country was the most beautiful in the world. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. The trees and shrubs produced various fruits, which are now lost. In the fields we had not only barley, oats, and rye, but wheat which shone like gold, and which could be baked in the sun’s rays. The years were not counted, for one was as happy as another.


http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#au

Like I told Knul, it's a list of things that grew on trees and in the fields.

"Pleasures and delights" there also. 'Fruits' and 'nuts' are also pleasures and delights. It isn't a list, because 'fruits' is not a species - and why mention 'nuts'? The corns are listed, because they were important for life-support. "Pleasures and delights" is a saying.

Edited by Apol, 25 March 2013 - 04:10 PM.


#3084    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

View PostApol, on 25 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

"Pleasures and delights" there also. 'Fruits' and 'nuts' are also pleasures and delights. It isn't a list, because 'fruits' is not a species - and why mention 'nuts'? The corns are listed, because they were important for life-support. "Pleasures and delights" is a saying.

I do know it is a saying, but then, right after those 'pleasures and delights', you get this:

thêr nw vrlêren send - which are now lost

That's another reason I thought the writer was talking about real fruit and nuts, not some metaphor.


#3085    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

The whole problem with these 'nochta' being 'nuts' is that I can only find the Latin 'nux' as a possible source.

And what I suggested earlier, "nougat" is very probably simply a too recent word to show up in the OLB:


Willem Stuvé ontdekte de nougat in 1870 om precies te zijn. Hij noemde zijn ontdekking ‘noix-gâteau' (nootkoekje), later bij afkorting ‘noix-gat', dat tenslotte verbasterd werd tot nougat en noga.

William Stuve discovered the nougat in 1870 to be exact. He called his discovery 'noix-gâteau' (nut cake), later abbreviated 'noix-gat', which was eventually corrupted to nougat and nougat.

http://www.bakkerijm...?t=3&h=75&s=286


#3086    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:00 PM

What about nocta being nectar ? the food of the gods


#3087    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:02 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 March 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

And all this mixing of Jesus and Buddha, Christianity ,Hinduism, Buddhism and so on, made me think of this:


According to pastor Halbertsma Buddha was a reformer of Hinduism who campaigned against the Brahmins (priests), statues, rituals and sacrifices. Poorthuis: "He compared Hinduism with the Roman Catholic Church . Many Dutch still strongly feel that Buddhism is a kind of pure reform, also of the Christianity with its power and institutions. With this they unconsciously create a sort of Calvinistic Buddhism, which claims to fight against hierarchy, rituals and institutions. "

____


Believe it or not, Buddhism in our country began with a pastor. It was the Frisian Mennonite pastor Joast Hiddes Halbertsma who in 1843 wrote the booklet "The Buddhism and its founder. He had previously written about "witte wieven", earrings and Easter eggs, and it was thus ok to add something extra exotic. So it was Buddhism, which in terms of language, Sanskrit, even would have been akin to the Hindelopense dialect according to the minister.


http://www.unexplain...80#entry3954584

This is where i think while the Frisians were in India , they may have taken their religion with them , and it was them that became the Brahmen ,or learned the Krishnan religion from the Brahmen,  if you google the Brahmen you will find that the first Brahmen came from Gouda , (they were actually called the Gouda Brahmen (sounds pretty Dutch to me ) and if becoming a brahman meant you had to attend a university for a few years like Texila ( note similarity to Texel )  then this would be akin to the years it took to become a druid ,

According to Arrian Alexander made a point of going to Texila to meet them ,  and according to Richard Williams Morgan in St Paul , and the early British christian church (as opposed to the Popish Roman Christianity ) said  " when St.Paul said ""i turn henceforth to the Gentiles ( Genus of the Isles  ?? ) he was about to turn to a religion already possessing much more in common than either Judaism or the New Roman Christianity"" does Morgan mean here St.Paul was turning to the Celtic church version of Christianity  , rather than the Roman version ?? and is that why they imprisoned and killed him .

Taliesin ( who Morgan calls the Prince Druid , and Bard ) says " Christ was the word from the beginning, and from the beginning was our teacher, we as a people never lost or forgot his teachings , Christianity became a new thing in Asia , but there was never a time when the Druids of Britain held not his doctrines ".
If the Druids had been created on Christs Doctrines then because they were formed well before Jesus Christ , the druids cant mean Jesus , so they are likely to have got their doctrines from Krishen ,/Krishna , so could they have got these while they were in India

Even the Roman Church has agreed officially that Britain recieved Christianity before Rome ,which is why our churches always said from the start our churches  would not be dominated by the Pope , and because of our Aryan ( note i wonder if this was an Indian Aryan version of Christianity  which became a heresy, but was changed to the Arrian Heresy , to hide the reason )version of Christianity was the reason the Romans had to destroy the Druids , and why the Romans needed to lose so many men conquering the British Version.


Here then you would get a very good reason why the OLB can never be officially acknowledged as not a fake !

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 25 March 2013 - 10:13 PM.


#3088    Apol

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:15 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 March 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

I do know it is a saying, but then, right after those 'pleasures and delights', you get this:

thêr nw vrlêren send - which are now lost

That's another reason I thought the writer was talking about real fruit and nuts, not some metaphor.

I find no problems with that. They simply call what were growing on the trees and shrubs (which certainly for the most were fruits) 'pleasures and delights'.
Now a lot of these 'pleasures and delights' had become lost.


#3089    Apol

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:56 AM

View PostApol, on 26 March 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

I find no problems with that. They simply call what were growing on the trees and shrubs (which certainly for the most were fruits) 'pleasures and delights'.
Now a lot of these 'pleasures and delights' had become lost.

This was simply before a name had formed for 'fruits'. Douglas Harper writes:

Fruit (n.) late 12c., from Old French fruit "fruit, fruit eaten as dessert; harvest; virtuous action" (12c.), from Latin fructus "an enjoyment, delight, satisfaction; proceeds, produce, fruit, crops," from frug-, stem of frui "to use, enjoy," from PIE *bhrug- "agricultural produce," also "to enjoy" (see brook (v.)).
http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

Ljudgêrt relates from his homeland Sindh that "by us are berry trees like your linden trees" (168/4-5), which shows that they could use the designation 'berries' for fruit.
There exists, however, a word for 'nuts' in the book - on 167/29-30 we read: "nuts as large as children’s heads". It is obviously derived from nochta, which means 'delights'. The experts have a little more clumsy explanation for the etymology of the word 'nut', though.

Edited by Apol, 26 March 2013 - 07:24 AM.


#3090    Abramelin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:52 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 25 March 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

What about nocta being nectar ? the food of the gods

Yes, it comes quite close to "nochta", but it is even a more recent borrowing from Latin/Greek, and as late as the 16th century.

And I think nectar is always associated with flowers, not trees or shrubs, though I do know trees and shrubs can carry flowers.





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