Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 5 votes

Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


  • Please log in to reply
5885 replies to this topic

#3271    Mario Dantas

Mario Dantas

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 639 posts
  • Joined:01 Oct 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cabo Verde Islands (West Africa)

  • Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress.

    (Mahatma Gandhi)

Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

Hello,

Impressive amount of information you got going on... well done!

I felt like breaking my silence regarding this thread/post, it is confirming many of my suspicions. You seem to be bravely "wading" through a dense linguistic "swamp" of words and facts, and it is mind boggling how language (any language) can be so complex. I really am ridiculously scared to talk about this. I find that the grave accusations made here, reflect all the psychological weight of the subject, so no need to say more. I just felt like writing something about what you have been discussing (but not getting into details).

Abramelin,

I hope you are for real (and not who it was said you were)...

View PostAbramelin, on 29 March 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:


Talking about copies....

I always said it is strange that only one copy of the OLB survived.



Has it ever crossed your mind that oral tradition could have been chosen instead of a written record? I remind you of that the “christianization” that took place in those days, especially in northern Europe, in the beginning of the Crusades, must have had dire obliterating consequences, whether to written or spoken information. The possibly existing copies of the OLB and other documents or even the very idea of it, was simply “erased” from the records? And even those who might have known something, hid it from “strange” eyes and ears, fearing punishment and/or death. The BS speaks of a long time oral tradition, where ancient “his tory” was encapsulated. From what i have read of the OLB (never finished the book, but read many parts several times), it has the same approach, in the sense that it is a story told to a son, of ancient traditions but of disturbing events going on at the time too. In my opinion, their goal seems to be that of perpetuating an ancient information, regarding Atlantis (?) demise, but also of how was society organized and how you should continue to follow that ancient tradition. The use of brute force by the church while evangelizing the “unfaithful” must have changed the way nordic people lived their own cultures. Resuming, i find that it is a desperate cry that “survived” the then wild days of inquisition, but this all failed to be understood properly.

“People have attempted to understand why the Indian philosophy has reached highest in the world, despite the people having neither reading nor writing skills. But it has been built up through an oral tradition. The eldest was taught by his father, and it was his duty to again teach his siblings “ — Ior Svedlin (Bock) to Hufvudstadsbladet May 4, 1982[2]


Puzzler,

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 March 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:


W:

In other Germanic languages, including German, its name is similar or identical to that of English V.[4] In many languages, its name literally means "double v": Spanish doble ve (though it can be spelled uve doble),[5][note 1] French double vé, Icelandic tvöfalt vaff, Czech dvojité vé, Finnish kaksois-vee, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W

Literally double V - so a W written as VV would not be that odd. That it's in Finnish is especially interesting.


I think you are absolutely right!

Never knew why the English or Portuguese call the letter W, double U (UU) in the first place... although they are very close to each other, that is UVW.

In Finish (according to the wiki link you posted), the W has the same value as V, does that not ring bells? According to Svedlin (Ior), the letter V stood for Vaner (people), who spoke Van Language (one language) contrary to more ancient Aser people who spoke Rot language. Rot language was the first, then came the Van language...

“In Norse mythology, the Vanir (singular Vanr) are a group of gods associated with fertility, wisdom and the ability to see the future. The Vanir are one of two groups of gods (the other being the Æsir) and are the namesake of the location Vanaheimr ("Home of the Vanir"). After the Æsir–Vanir War, the Vanir became a subgroup of the Æsir. Subsequently, members of the Vanir are sometimes also referred to as members of the Æsir.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanir

Therefore, i believe the letter VV is really just a symbolism, perhaps marking the beginning of a new era of descendancy of the letter V. Notice that in the so called Aser Alphabet, the letter W is intertwined with the Y letter (which stands for Ygdrasil):

Posted Image


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb23AFSSw-Y&list=PLFFC9E5B747DF3B4B




BTW: the letter U likewise strangely meant Ursprung...



Etymology


From Middle High German ursprunc, from Old High German ursprung, corresponding to ur- +‎ Sprung. Compare Dutch oorsprong.

Pronunciation


  • IPA: [ˈʔuːɐ̯ʃpʁʊŋ]
Noun


Ursprung m (genitive Ursprungs or Ursprunges, plural Ursprünge)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ursprung

More food for thought...

Regards,
Mario Dantas

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#3272    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:50 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 30 March 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

You truly think Hiddo would have written it like that?

OKKE MY SON—
You must preserve these books with body and soul. They contain the history of all our people, as well as of our forefathers. Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother; but they got wet, and therefore began to perish. In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.
In case you inherit them, you must copy them likewise, and your children must do so too, so that they may never be lost.
Written at Liuwert, in the three thousand four hundred and forty-ninth year after Atland was submerged—that is, according to the Christian reckoning, the year 1256.
Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda.—Watch

If Hidde would have lived in the 13th century, he would have done so. By the way, his name is not Hiddo as Ottema says, but Hidde according to the manuscript.


#3273    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:16 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

So where is it in the letter list? ... as you said and I said, it's not or at least it doesn't look like that, so it could be a double V.

Like i said: nor the -W- nor the -NG- is in the letter list. It appears someone forgot to add these two letters to the letter list.

.


#3274    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:01 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 30 March 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

).

Abramelin,

I hope you are for real (and not who it was said you were)...



Has it ever crossed your mind that oral tradition could have been chosen instead of a written record? I remind you of that the “christianization” that took place in those days, especially in northern Europe, in the beginning of the Crusades, must have had dire obliterating consequences, whether to written or spoken information. The possibly existing copies of the OLB and other documents or even the very idea of it, was simply “erased” from the records? And even those who might have known something, hid it from “strange” eyes and ears, fearing punishment and/or death. The BS speaks of a long time oral tradition, where ancient “his tory” was encapsulated. From what i have read of the OLB (never finished the book, but read many parts several times), it has the same approach, in the sense that it is a story told to a son, of ancient traditions but of disturbing events going on at the time too. In my opinion, their goal seems to be that of perpetuating an ancient information, regarding Atlantis (?) demise, but also of how was society organized and how you should continue to follow that ancient tradition. The use of brute force by the church while evangelizing the “unfaithful” must have changed the way nordic people lived their own cultures. Resuming, i find that it is a desperate cry that “survived” the then wild days of inquisition, but this all failed to be understood properly.

“People have attempted to understand why the Indian philosophy has reached highest in the world, despite the people having neither reading nor writing skills. But it has been built up through an oral tradition. The eldest was taught by his father, and it was his duty to again teach his siblings “ — Ior Svedlin (Bock) to Hufvudstadsbladet May 4, 1982[2]

I am for real, but what did 'they' say I am??

-

It was a written tradition. Around 2200 BCE the OLB script was invented by Fasta and with them the history of the Fryans , including their laws and regulations were transmitted, at least from the 6th century BCE and onwards

The multitude of (strict) laws and regulations would not have been passed down orally.

-

It's not about "Atlantis", but about "Aldland/Atland".

-

If the West Frisian Over de Linden's could have passed the book, including the family chronicle from generation to generation, so will others not belonging to the Over de Linden family have passed the laws and regulations from generation to generation. It's not very likely that those living far away from Texland would have traveled all the way to Texland every time there was some dispute to find out about the hows and whys and what-to-dos: they must have had a copy of the laws and regulations ready at hand.

-

I know you said more, but something personal has happened to my family and me hours ago (after 'waiting' for 30 hours) and the OLB is a way to distract me, but my head is not clear enough. Maybe later.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 30 March 2013 - 10:02 PM.


#3275    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,665 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:06 AM

View PostKnul, on 30 March 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

If Hidde would have lived in the 13th century, he would have done so. By the way, his name is not Hiddo as Ottema says, but Hidde according to the manuscript.

I don't think he would have had to, not like he's in the Church or anything - it's a secret manuscript.

Anyway, nothing says this manuscript has to be written in the 13th century. This copy could have been done anytime.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3276    Apol

Apol

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 157 posts
  • Joined:02 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hønefoss, Norway

Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:07 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 30 March 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Like i said: nor the -W- nor the -NG- is in the letter list. It appears someone forgot to add these two letters to the letter list.

.

This is the NG letter in the letter list on page 46:
Posted Image

The W isn't a separate letter, but simply two V's, and the V is in the same letter list.


#3277    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,665 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:17 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 30 March 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Like i said: nor the -W- nor the -NG- is in the letter list. It appears someone forgot to add these two letters to the letter list.

.

Quite frankly I find you the most real person on this board.

NG is between N and M. Apol has posted the original above and here is the copy. It's there.



Posted Image

Edited by The Puzzler, 31 March 2013 - 12:18 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3278    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:39 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 31 March 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

I don't think he would have had to, not like he's in the Church or anything - it's a secret manuscript.

Anyway, nothing says this manuscript has to be written in the 13th century. This copy could have been done anytime.

What makes it a secret manuscript ?

Otttema dates the manuscript in the 13th century. Was he wrong ?


#3279    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,665 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

View PostKnul, on 31 March 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

What makes it a secret manuscript ?

Otttema dates the manuscript in the 13th century. Was he wrong ?

I mean to not let monks see them they must have been written outside the Church, which means 'secretive'.

Either way, I see no need for the manuscript to be written like that.

Edited by The Puzzler, 31 March 2013 - 10:49 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3280    Othar Winis

Othar Winis

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 659 posts
  • Joined:07 Mar 2013

Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:47 AM

View PostApol, on 28 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I'm not using any website, but Goffe Jensma's book Het Oera Linda-boek, where there are photos of every page in the original manuscript.

That book is indeed of good use for the page-photos and line numbering.

But the translation is sometimes horrible and the introduction contains much misinformation, for example already in the first paragraph of the foreword (p.7):

"Nu 134 jaar geleden, in 1872, kwam dr. J.G. Ottema met een eerste editie, die in 1876 werd herdrukt, in 1972 gereprint en die ten grondslag ligt aan alle buitenlandse vertalingen. [...] In de buitenlandse vertalingen werd niet alleen Ottema's transcriptie maar ook diens vertaling tot uitgangspunt genomen."

Translated (my underlining):

"Now 134 years ago, in 1872, dr. Ottema punlished a first edition, that was reprinted in 1876 and 1972, and was the basis of all foreign translations. [...] In the foreign translations, not only Ottema's transcription but also his translation were used as a starting point."

The German translation (1933) by Dr. Wirth was NOT based on Ottema's translation.

Example: creation myth ("FORMA SKÉDNISE")

Ottema, page 13
"Haat trad tot haar binnen. En nu baarden zij elk twaalf zonen en twaalf dochteren, elke juultijd een paar."
=> hate came in them

Wirth, page 16
"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein und nun gebar jede zwölf Söhne und zwölf Töchter, eine jegliche Julzeit zween."
=> od (God's breath) came in them

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3281    The Puzzler

The Puzzler

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,665 posts
  • Joined:23 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Australia

  • I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious. ~ Einstein

Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:55 AM

This is 15th century and the paper looks a bit like the Oera Linda book and the writing, although not like the OLB Jul script is plainer like the OLB. Written in Dutch apparently.

Posted Image
http://www.guillermi...alli/index.html



Translator's Preface by Ottema for interest: http://www.sacred-te...l/olb/olb02.htm

Edited by The Puzzler, 31 March 2013 - 11:30 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3282    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 31 March 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Quite frankly I find you the most real person on this board.

NG is between N and M. Apol has posted the original above and here is the copy. It's there.



Posted Image

Like I said yesterday, my head wasn't very clear. I didn't mean the -NG- letter, but the -GS- letter.


Top is from the original letter sheet, bottom is Ottema's version:

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 31 March 2013 - 01:56 PM.


#3283    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostApol, on 31 March 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

This is the NG letter in the letter list on page 46:
Posted Image

The W isn't a separate letter, but simply two V's, and the V is in the same letter list.

W was used as one of the 6 letters of Wralda's name, put around a Yule wheel.


#3284    Apol

Apol

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 157 posts
  • Joined:02 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hønefoss, Norway

Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

View Postgestur, on 31 March 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

That book is indeed of good use for the page-photos and line numbering.

But the translation is sometimes horrible and the introduction contains much misinformation, for example already in the first paragraph of the foreword (p.7):

"Nu 134 jaar geleden, in 1872, kwam dr. J.G. Ottema met een eerste editie, die in 1876 werd herdrukt, in 1972 gereprint en die ten grondslag ligt aan alle buitenlandse vertalingen. [...] In de buitenlandse vertalingen werd niet alleen Ottema's transcriptie maar ook diens vertaling tot uitgangspunt genomen."

Translated (my underlining):

"Now 134 years ago, in 1872, dr. Ottema punlished a first edition, that was reprinted in 1876 and 1972, and was the basis of all foreign translations. [...] In the foreign translations, not only Ottema's transcription but also his translation were used as a starting point."

The German translation (1933) by Dr. Wirth was NOT based on Ottema's translation.

Example: creation myth ("FORMA SKÉDNISE")

Ottema, page 13
"Haat trad tot haar binnen. En nu baarden zij elk twaalf zonen en twaalf dochteren, elke juultijd een paar."
=> hate came in them

Wirth, page 16
"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein und nun gebar jede zwölf Söhne und zwölf Töchter, eine jegliche Julzeit zween."
=> od (God's breath) came in them

Yes, I love Jensma's line numbering. In at least one page the numbering is wrong, though, but I think a book without some faults doesn't exist.
Jensma is as exact as one can expect. He has done a great and important work and brought the Oera Linda Book onto the stage again.
I don't agree with him in all matters, but that's a completely different thing.

Wirth's translation is as 'confusing' as my own Norwegian. He changed the order of the texts...

Edited by Apol, 31 March 2013 - 01:32 PM.


#3285    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:36 PM

View Postgestur, on 31 March 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Ottema, page 13
"Haat trad tot haar binnen. En nu baarden zij elk twaalf zonen en twaalf dochteren, elke juultijd een paar."
=> hate came in them

Wirth, page 16
"Od (Gottes Odem) trat zu ihnen ein und nun gebar jede zwölf Söhne und zwölf Töchter, eine jegliche Julzeit zween."
=> od (God's breath) came in them

And it was Reichenbach who first used the term "OD" in the meaning as used in the OLB:

The Odic force (also called Od [õd], Odyle, Önd, Odes, Odylic, Odyllic, or Odems) is the name given in the mid-19th century to a hypothetical vital energy or life force by Baron Carl von Reichenbach. Von Reichenbach coined the name from that of the Norse god Odin in 1845.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Odic_force

.

Edited by Abramelin, 31 March 2013 - 01:37 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users