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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3316    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:19 PM

View PostApol, on 01 April 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

I also think it's a very old word for daughter.
Behind the meaning -gator... it's the same as in alli-gator (lol).

I think Puzz was referring to a word for an animal living in the rivers of the OLB "Pangab" (Punjab), the "algaettar" :

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bx

We have discussed this name for many pages on end.
The alligator lives in the West-Indies, the OLB "algaettar" lived in India (the 'East-Indies").

But "alligator" is the Spanish name for a specie of crocodiles that only lives in the Americas.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 01 April 2013 - 02:44 PM.


#3317    Abramelin

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:34 PM

gad-er 16, gad-ur, afries., Adv.: nhd. zusammen; ne. together (Adv.);  Hw.: s. to-gad-er-a; vgl. ae [Old English]. geador; Q.: R, B, E, H, W; E.: germ. *gad-, Adj., zugehörig, passend; s. idg. *ghedh-, *ghodh-, V., umklammern, zusammenhalten, vereinigen, passen, Pokorny 423; W.: nfries. gear, Adv.,
zusammen; L.: Hh 33b, Rh 771b; R.: to gad-er-a, afries., Adv.: nhd. zusammen; L.:
Hh 33b


gad-er-ia 14, gad-ur-ia, gad-r-ia, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. sammeln, vereinigen; ne.
gather (V.), unite
; Vw.: s. for-*, ur-, wi-ther-; Hw.: vgl. ae. gadrian, gaderian; Q.:
E, S, W, R, H, AA 56; E.: s. gad-er; W.: nfries. gearjen, V., sammeln;


http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-G.pdf



Gadir (Phoenician: גדר), the original name given to the outpost established here by the Phoenicians, means "wall, compound", or, more generally, "walled stronghold". The Punic dialect lent this word, along with many others, to the Berber languages, where it was nativised as agadir meaning "wall" in Tamazight and "fortified granary" in Shilha; it appears as a common place name in North Africa.[4] The name of the Israeli town of Gedera has a similar etymology.

Later, the city became known by a similar Attic Greek form of the Phoenician name, τὰ Γάδειρα (Gádeira). In Ionic Greek, the name is spelled slightly differently, Γήδειρα (Gḗdeira). This spelling appears in the histories written by Herodotus. Rarely, the name is spelled ἡ Γαδείρα (Gadeíra), as, for example, in the writings of Eratosthenes (as attested by Stephanus of Byzantium).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadiz

The Old Frisian "gader" and "gaderia" have a connection with "a group of things/people close together", and I think that has a connection with 'enclosure'.

But the OLB suggests the oldest name for Cadiz is "Kadik" (medieval: "Kadiks/Kadix)

It is not, and if I had written the OLB, I would have used the Old Frisian "gader" or "gaderia" to make up an etymology for the name of that ancient city.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 01 April 2013 - 03:14 PM.


#3318    The Puzzler

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 01 April 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I think Puzz was referring to a word for an animal living in the rivers of the OLB "Pangab" (Punjab), the "algaettar" :

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bx

We have discussed this name for many pages on end.
The alligator lives in the West-Indies, the OLB "algaettar" lived in India (the 'East-Indies").

But "alligator" is the Spanish name for a specie of crocodiles that only lives in the Americas.

.

I'd love to stay and chat about the algaettar's but it's much too late and I'm pretty sure I can't squeeze a new algaettar point out at this time - but I'll sleep on it.

Also please don't get me started on Gadir's name lol.

Edited by The Puzzler, 01 April 2013 - 04:08 PM.

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#3319    Ott

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

View Postgestur, on 31 March 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

"Strong desire" is a perfect description of "life force".
I can see how this evolved [degenerated] from a general meaning into something more specific like "rage" (in some oldnorse texts) and in Latin "hate" (odium) [...]

Edit:

evolved => degenerated

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"SAVED FROM THE FLOOD" ~ Oera Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com/


#3320    Ott

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

View Postgestur, on 31 March 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Martin Luther used the term "Gottes Odem" in his translation (16th century) of the creation myth from the Christian bible.
Same context: God gives life to Adam.

Beautiful fragment with Odem as God's breath or life-force, from the libretto of Haydn's masterpiece Die Schöpfung (1798):

GABRIEL, URIEL
Zu dir, O Herr, blickt alles auf;
um Speise fleht dich alles an.
Du öffnet deine Hand,
gesättigt werden sie.

RAPHAEL
Du wendest ab dein Angesicht,
da bebet alles und erstarrt.
Du nimmst den Odem weg;
in Staub zerfallen sie.

GABRIEL, URIEL, RAPHAEL
Den Odem hauchst du wieder aus,
und neues Leben sprosst hervor.
Verjüngt ist die Gestalt
der Erd’ an Reiz und Kraft.

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"SAVED FROM THE FLOOD" ~ Oera Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com/


#3321    Ott

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:15 PM

Abramelin said that if the OLB were authentic, more copies should have been saved (or something like that).
My answer to that is in the following quote (translation below).

" In een handschrift, berustend in de Koninklijke Bibliotheek te 's-Gravenhage, bevindt zich tussen twee moraliserende leerdichten en enige korte uiteenzettingen van de katholieke leer, de legende van Beatrijs, een der parels van onze middelnederlandse letterkunde.
Genoemd handschrift is het enige, waarin zij bewaard werd, een bewijs hoe broos ons bezit van zulke teksten is. Immers, was dit handschrift, zoals vele andere, verloren gegaan, wij zouden niet hebben geweten, dat de oude Maria-legende op onze bodem haar schoonste vorm heeft gekregen, waardoor zij alle buitenlandse bewerkingen verre overtreft."

From: "Beatrijs ~ Met inleiding en aantekeningen van Dr. W.H. Beuken" (Achtste druk, 1972): Inleiding, blz. 3.

Translation:

" In a manuscript, resting in the Royal Library at The Hague, between two moralising, didactic poems and some short disquisitions of the catholic doctrine, there is the legend of Beatrijs, one of the highlights of our middledutch literature.
This manuscript is the only version in which it was saved, illustrating how brittle our possession of such texts is. Indeed, had this manuscript been lost, like many others, we would not have known, that the old Mary-legend got its most beautiful shape in our territory, which makes her overtop all foreign adaptations by far."

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"SAVED FROM THE FLOOD" ~ Oera Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com/


#3322    Ott

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:27 PM

One more relating to the word "OD" (for the record):

On Frisian coins of ca. 1100, the name Otto was spelled "ODTO", and some coins of the 11th century have "ODDODUX" (according to author referring to Ordulf).

Source: "Friese Graafschappen tussen Zwin en Wezer", by dr. Dirk Jan Henstra (2012), p.119 and131.

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#3323    Ott

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

From the same book, on page 156 (about late middle ages; 13th century):

"De enige manier voor een graaf om gezag in Friese gebieden te verwerven was hetzij met geweld hetzij middels verdragen na bedreiging met geweld."

=>

"The only way for a count to acquire authority in Frisian territories was either with violence or through treaties after threats of violence."

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#3324    Apol

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:15 AM

View Postgestur, on 01 April 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Beautiful fragment with Odem as God's breath or life-force, from the libretto of Haydn's masterpiece Die Schöpfung (1798):

GABRIEL, URIEL
Zu dir, O Herr, blickt alles auf;
um Speise fleht dich alles an.
Du öffnet deine Hand,
gesättigt werden sie.

RAPHAEL
Du wendest ab dein Angesicht,
da bebet alles und erstarrt.
Du nimmst den Odem weg;
in Staub zerfallen sie.

GABRIEL, URIEL, RAPHAEL
Den Odem hauchst du wieder aus,
und neues Leben sprosst hervor.
Verjüngt ist die Gestalt
der Erd’ an Reiz und Kraft.


View Postgestur, on 01 April 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Abramelin said that if the OLB were authentic, more copies should have been saved (or something like that).
My answer to that is in the following quote (translation below).

" In een handschrift, berustend in de Koninklijke Bibliotheek te 's-Gravenhage, bevindt zich tussen twee moraliserende leerdichten en enige korte uiteenzettingen van de katholieke leer, de legende van Beatrijs, een der parels van onze middelnederlandse letterkunde.
Genoemd handschrift is het enige, waarin zij bewaard werd, een bewijs hoe broos ons bezit van zulke teksten is. Immers, was dit handschrift, zoals vele andere, verloren gegaan, wij zouden niet hebben geweten, dat de oude Maria-legende op onze bodem haar schoonste vorm heeft gekregen, waardoor zij alle buitenlandse bewerkingen verre overtreft."

From: "Beatrijs ~ Met inleiding en aantekeningen van Dr. W.H. Beuken" (Achtste druk, 1972): Inleiding, blz. 3.

Translation:

" In a manuscript, resting in the Royal Library at The Hague, between two moralising, didactic poems and some short disquisitions of the catholic doctrine, there is the legend of Beatrijs, one of the highlights of our middledutch literature.
This manuscript is the only version in which it was saved, illustrating how brittle our possession of such texts is. Indeed, had this manuscript been lost, like many others, we would not have known, that the old Mary-legend got its most beautiful shape in our territory, which makes her overtop all foreign adaptations by far."

Posted Image

Yes, when it's a miracle that ONE copy of the Oera Linda Book has survived,
why should it at the same be a miracle that not more copies have survived?


#3325    The Puzzler

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:45 AM

That's a good example gestur.

I just do not believe these people in Northern Europe did not expand out. The Greek myths, even before I knew about this whole OLB story, were imo always seemingly from the North - Celtic bards kept old Germanic stories alive, in poems, oral stories and imo again it is very Northern European, I do not think any of this came from anywhere else. Even Egyptians, have no oral tales, it's ancient and European - most Greek myths, excepting ones that came in from Egypt or elsewhere, are North European, especially once Helios enters them in the form of Sun worship - even his name is Fryan - hel - bright, shining. Everything has been adapted into the Mediterranean - it's obvious when you look and other authors have picked up on it too. Ulysses in Friesland, why not? Nyhellenia an original version of Athena? We all know Mycenaean amber is from the Baltic, what else came down from there?


The reader may perhaps be inclined to laugh at these statements, and apply to me the words that I myself have lately used, fantastic and improbable. Indeed at first I could not believe my own eyes, and yet after further consideration I arrived at the discovery of extraordinary conformities which render the case much less improbable than the birth of Min-erva from the head of Jupiter by a blow from the axe of Hephaestus, for instance.
In the Greek Mythology all the gods and goddesses have a youthful period. Pallas alone has no youth. She is not otherwise known than adult. Min-erva appears in Attica as high priestess from a foreign country, a country unknown to the Greeks. Pallas is a virgin goddess, Min-erva is a Burgtmaagd. The fair, blue-eyed Pallas, differing thus in type from the rest of the gods and goddesses, evidently belonged to Frya's people. The character for wisdom and the emblematical attributes, especially the owl, are the same for both. Pallas gives to the new town her own name, Athènai, which has no meaning in Greek. Min-erva gives to the town built by her the name Athene, which has an important meaning in Fries, namely, that they came there as friends—"Âthen."
Min-erva came to Attica about 1600 years before Christ, the period at which the Grecian Mythology was beginning to be formed. Min-erva landed with the fleet of Jon at the head of a colony in Attica. In later times we find her on the Roman votive stones in Walcheren, under the name of Nehallenia, worshipped as a goddess of navigation; and Pallas is worshipped by the Athenians as the protecting goddess of shipbuilding and navigation.

http://www.sacred-te...l/olb/olb02.htm

Edited by The Puzzler, 02 April 2013 - 03:09 AM.

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#3326    Abramelin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:43 AM

View Postgestur, on 01 April 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Abramelin said that if the OLB were authentic, more copies should have been saved (or something like that).
My answer to that is in the following quote (translation below).

" In een handschrift, berustend in de Koninklijke Bibliotheek te 's-Gravenhage, bevindt zich tussen twee moraliserende leerdichten en enige korte uiteenzettingen van de katholieke leer, de legende van Beatrijs, een der parels van onze middelnederlandse letterkunde.
Genoemd handschrift is het enige, waarin zij bewaard werd, een bewijs hoe broos ons bezit van zulke teksten is. Immers, was dit handschrift, zoals vele andere, verloren gegaan, wij zouden niet hebben geweten, dat de oude Maria-legende op onze bodem haar schoonste vorm heeft gekregen, waardoor zij alle buitenlandse bewerkingen verre overtreft."

From: "Beatrijs ~ Met inleiding en aantekeningen van Dr. W.H. Beuken" (Achtste druk, 1972): Inleiding, blz. 3.

Translation:

" In a manuscript, resting in the Royal Library at The Hague, between two moralising, didactic poems and some short disquisitions of the catholic doctrine, there is the legend of Beatrijs, one of the highlights of our middledutch literature.
This manuscript is the only version in which it was saved, illustrating how brittle our possession of such texts is. Indeed, had this manuscript been lost, like many others, we would not have known, that the old Mary-legend got its most beautiful shape in our territory, which makes her overtop all foreign adaptations by far."


We are talking about a chronicle that contained many laws and regulations. You can't expect that everyone all over Fryan territory knew all these laws and regulations by heart, so copies of at least these laws and regulations must have been made.

Such law books must have been copied over and over again because they would wear due to frequent use.


#3327    Ott

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 April 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

We are talking about a chronicle that contained many laws and regulations. You can't expect that everyone all over Fryan territory knew all these laws and regulations by heart, so copies of at least these laws and regulations must have been made.

Such law books must have been copied over and over again because they would wear due to frequent use.

Ofcourse there must have been more copies, but the Nazis and Communists were not the first (nor the last!) to destroy texts they did not like.

Besides destruction from invaders and wars, many sources will simply have fallen apart in our wet climate, or used as fuel in cold, dark winters. For most of the past people struggled to survive and had better things to do than copy a book that had no direct relevance. Others will simply have been thrown away, as happens nowadays: when old people die, their children or grandchildren throw away things they don't value. As Apol said, for many centuries, maybe even over 2000 years, it will have been extremely dangerous to have these texts. Because enemies might think burning them is not enough: people who (possibly) know the information (and might write it down again) will have to die too.

Also: there may be more texts in private collections or secret archives. After what happened with Cornelis Over the Linden - being accused of lying and all - who would bring a family treasure like that to a museum or historical society like he did?!

Mind my words: as soon as OLB gets the attention it deserves, more sources that confirm it will appear.

Edited by gestur, 02 April 2013 - 10:19 AM.

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#3328    Abramelin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:18 AM

View Postgestur, on 02 April 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Ofcourse there must have been more copies, but the Nazis and Communists were not the first (nor the last!) to destroy texts they did not like.

Besides destruction from invaders and wars, many teksts will just have fallen apart in our wet climate, or used as fuel in cold, dark winters. For most of the past people struggled to survive and had better things to do than copy a book that had no direct relevance. Others will simply have been thrown away, as happens nowadays: when old people die, their children or grandchildren throw away things they don't see any value. As Apol said, for many centuries, maybe even over 2000 years, it will have been dangerous to have these texts.

Also: there may be more texts in private collections or secret archives. After what happened with Cornelis Over the Linden - being accused of lying and all - who would bring a family treasure like that to a museum or historical society like he did?!

Mind my words: as soon as OLB gets the attention it deserves, more sources that confirm it will appear.

You talk about our wet climate, but the Fryans were all over Europe and beyond.

And we still find Roman (yes!) papyri that are around 2000 years old, in England for instance (talking about 'wet climate', lol).

The Romans also inscribed on stone, and though the contents are obviously 'pagan', they were not destroyed and we can still view them in many museums.


Also: there may be more texts in private collections or secret archives. After what happened with Cornelis Over the Linden - being accused of lying and all - who would bring a family treasure like that to a museum or historical society
like he did?!

What happened to CodL happened 150 years ago. Things have changed. If let's say some Greek family owned a Fryan document, why would they keep hiding it, even now?! They could have the paper dated, the text analyzed, and so on. And if this new MS appeared to be from the 13h century, then the whole discussion about the OLB will have to start afresh.


#3329    Ott

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:48 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 April 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

And we still find Roman (yes!) papyri that are around 2000 years old [...]

The Romans also inscribed on stone, and though the contents are obviously 'pagan', they were not destroyed and we can still view them in many museums.

That fits in our belief system and was not target of a longlasting and fanatic cultural genocide as our nordic prechristian culture was.

Quote

What happened to CodL happened 150 years ago.

Don't think light of that. He was (falsely) branded a lying fraudster in public and ridiculed.

Quote

Things have changed. If let's say some Greek family owned a Fryan document, why would they keep hiding it, even now?!

People hide all possible sorts of things.
They have excellent reasons to not trust their authorities.
They may have had similar instructions as Liko gave:

NE LÉT THA AGON ÉNIS PAPEKAPPE
TACH NIMMERTHE OVER THISSA SKRIFTA NE WÉJA


There may also be extremely rich people - from a religion or lifestyle that would not benefit from Fryan thinking entering the public domain - who would offer a good prize for it, and then keep it for themselves (or ritually burn it).

Quote

They could have the paper dated, the text analyzed, and so on. And if this new MS appeared to be from the 13h century, then the whole discussion about the OLB will have to start afresh.

Good that you mention that. The OLB paper has been analysed for many years now and the only reports that have come out so far are vague - no clear answer to the basic questions: when, where and how made? Artificially coloured, if so, how? With the modern techniques this should be easy.

The overestimated amateurs who do the research already decided before they even started that the paper had to be from the 19th century and made in Western Europe or America. That's why they can't get their results straight. They don't even consider the possibility that it might be Chinese or Byzantine paper.

About the OLB-language: After Beckering Vinckers wrote his hogwash report in 1876, no linguist wrote a word on the topic. It is burked. Not a confirmation that what BV wrote is right, no refinement of it. BV's libel is plain rubbish and so obviously pseudo-scientific that it made me lose trust in the so-called scientific community of the Netherlands.

Hollowland, where a Goffe Jestma can become doctor summa cum laude (at a theological faculty) with his disinforming delusional fiction so he can become professor Subsidiefrysk at the townships-university of Groningen.

ER.UT MOT.ET.

Edited by gestur, 02 April 2013 - 01:22 PM.

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#3330    Abramelin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:27 PM

I keep having problems with authorities socalled suppressing information because it might turn history upside down.

I mentioned Göbekli Tepe in this thread. If you had said, some 50 years ago, that there were 11,000 years old temples to be found in Anatolia, you would have been labeled an idiot, a crackpot, a fantast or something similar. But they did find those temples, and by those finds many start thinking radically different about what might still be waiting in the ground.

Were those finds hidden for the general public? No.

-

If another copy of the OLB, or maybe only an OLB law book is still in the possession of some rich family, they could have it researched and dated by professionals instead of amateurs because money would not be a problem.

-

Quote

Don't think light of that. He was (falsely) branded a lying fraudster in public and ridiculed.

So if another copy was found, would that not clear his name? And preferably a copy found in another country?

Quote

There may also be extremely rich people - from a religion that would not benefit from Fryan thinking entering the public domain - who would offer a good prize for it, and then keep it for themselves (or ritually burn it).

Ritually burn it, lol.  You serious??

Extremely rich people don't give a flying fk about public opinion because they don't have to.