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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3346    Abramelin

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:33 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 03 April 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

No not OLB its from Layamons Brut , or Chronicles of Britain .......on google books , but it has an anglo-saxon , early english , and a modern translation  , so you get 3 different spellings/meaning of each word , but where i typed th , the orig shows a thorn (Close to p)and i dont have a typeface with accents.

I just downloaded the pdf from here (click on the tab with the star / 19 Mb) :

Brut, or chronicle of Britain: a poeticel semi-Saxon paraphrase of ..., Volume 3
Layamon, Frederic Madden

http://books.google....ut wave&f=false


#3347    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:41 AM

What is it we are all frightened to say.......The more i delve , the more it looks to me like anciently different bloodlines ruled different countries , at some point a concerted effort was made to either conquer or destroy some , or if they were too powerful to intermarry all these bloodlines, and keep government and religious positions of power for themselves, setting up different family members into different positions , so as not to have to work , to become rich, because that was where the money was........As Voltaire famously said , the Holy Roman Empire , was not Holy , was not Roman and was not an Empire........ it was an internecine money machine.

thats why we have a situation where 10% of the elite people have 90% of the money, and the 90% of us left , have to fight for the remaining 10%. ....so what ,its history ...a done deal.....we have to live with it , or change it .


#3348    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 03 April 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

I just downloaded the pdf from here (click on the tab with the star / 19 Mb) :

Brut, or chronicle of Britain: a poeticel semi-Saxon paraphrase of ..., Volume 3
Layamon, Frederic Madden

http://books.google....ut wave&f=false

i just read volume 1 , and started volume 2 ,    some good stuff on Brut coming from Troy , building Britain as New Troia ,and then going back to the Krekalands from where he was banished , and re-forming an army from the Troians that had been made slaves by the Achaeans/Greeks , could these have become the Romans ??


#3349    The Puzzler

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:49 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 03 April 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

What is it we are all frightened to say.......The more i delve , the more it looks to me like anciently different bloodlines ruled different countries , at some point a concerted effort was made to either conquer or destroy some , or if they were too powerful to intermarry all these bloodlines, and keep government and religious positions of power for themselves, setting up different family members into different positions , so as not to have to work , to become rich, because that was where the money was........As Voltaire famously said , the Holy Roman Empire , was not Holy , was not Roman and was not an Empire........ it was an internecine money machine.

thats why we have a situation where 10% of the elite people have 90% of the money, and the 90% of us left , have to fight for the remaining 10%. ....so what ,its history ...a done deal.....we have to live with it , or change it .
Yeah, should I be waiting for the men in black or something? Am I being naïve or overlooking an important point that I should be having a paranoia attack over?

In saying that I am very conscious of what I write in this thread but in the 21st century internet age we may be safe from any fallout the contents of this book might have once had if it was true.


But most of all, Egeria gave wisdom and prophecy in return for libations of water or milk at her sacred groves. This quality has been made especially popular through the tale of her relationship with Numa Pompilius (the second legendary king of Rome, that succeeded its founder Romulus);
In this myth she is shown as counselor and guide to King Numa in the establishment of the original framework of laws and rituals of Rome, and in this role she is somehow uniquely in Roman mythology associated with "sacred books"; Numa (Latin "numen" designates "the expressed will of a deity"[4]) is reputed to have written down the teachings of Egeria in "sacred books" that he made bury with him; when some chance accident brought them back to light some 400 years later, they were deemed by the Senate inappropriate for disclosure to the people and destroyed by their order;[5] what made them inappropriate was certainly of "political" nature but apparently has not been handed down by Valerius Antias, the source that Plutarch was using.Dionysius of Halicarnassus hints that they were actually kept as a very close secret by the Pontifices

http://en.wikipedia....eria_(mythology)

Edited by The Puzzler, 03 April 2013 - 12:50 PM.

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#3350    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

Abe ....I know you are not a fan of the word ...Bedrum in the OLB....... how about it was a shortening of the word Boedromia ?

plutarch......parallel lives.........Life of Theseus.......verse 27... re the attack of the Amazons.

.. Theseus sacrificed to fear , in obedience to an oracle , then joined battle with the Amazons , this battle was joined on the day of the month Boedromion , on which , down to the present time , the Athenians celebrate the Boedromia .

havent been able to find out what this was , some festival or sacrificial day ?? but as it is Athenians celebrating it , then presumably Minerva-Nyhellenia could have brought it from Frisia , and it would be a well known Frisian event.......


#3351    The Puzzler

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 04:44 PM

Both bed and room are very old words - I know that this word hasn't been found in written form very earlier but see no reason to doubt it's use, it probably just got replaced with a fancy French word like boudoir but it's simply a bed space.

What's interesting, everyone has rum for room/roomy then Latin have rus - which is in the word Et rus cans - could be people of the fields, farmers, (which they were, their sage popped up from a field) an early version of Latin language Romans, same word really. Funny how both arrive in the same area coming from the same area (Anatolia apparently) I always found that in itself an unexplained mystery....

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/room

Edited by The Puzzler, 03 April 2013 - 04:52 PM.

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#3352    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 03 April 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Both bed and room are very old words - I know that this word hasn't been found in written form very earlier but see no reason to doubt it's use, it probably just got replaced with a fancy French word like boudoir but it's simply a bed space.

What's interesting, everyone has rum for room/roomy then Latin have rus - which is in the word Et rus cans - could be people of the fields, farmers, (which they were, their sage popped up from a field) an early version of Latin language Romans, same word really. Funny how both arrive in the same area coming from the same area (Anatolia apparently) I always found that in itself an unexplained mystery....

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/room

My trouble is since reading OLB and hearing about the Rus and the Magi , .......now i keep thinking i see them everwhere.......eg .. on this same verse 27 ,

Many Amazons were buried in Athens , some who were injured were taken secretly to Chalcis to be nursed , and the Megarians too show places in their country where Amazons were buried , on the market place by the Rhus ( a stream ).........and i am thinking here they are again Magiara and the Rus ??


#3353    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:26 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 April 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

If Bill Gates decides to walk stark naked in the middle of New york...
We were talking extremely rich, right?

When *I* am talking extremely rich and powerful, I don't mean puppets like Billyboy Gates.

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#3354    Abramelin

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:41 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 03 April 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Abe ....I know you are not a fan of the word ...Bedrum in the OLB....... how about it was a shortening of the word Boedromia ?

plutarch......parallel lives.........Life of Theseus.......verse 27... re the attack of the Amazons.

.. Theseus sacrificed to fear , in obedience to an oracle , then joined battle with the Amazons , this battle was joined on the day of the month Boedromion , on which , down to the present time , the Athenians celebrate the Boedromia .

havent been able to find out what this was , some festival or sacrificial day ?? but as it is Athenians celebrating it , then presumably Minerva-Nyhellenia could have brought it from Frisia , and it would be a well known Frisian event.......

Oh, I do like the word. It means what it is supposed to mean: BEDROOM. And a word not older than the 16th century.

But I don't think "the month Boedromion" has much to do with it...


Hwil that alrek drok to kaempane wêre, was thêr en wla Fin to thêre flête jefta bedrum fon thêre Moder inglupth, ând wilde hja nêdgja.

Sandbach:
While the fight was going on, a rascally Finn stole into the chamber of the mother, and would have done her violence.


alr-ek, afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. all-er-a-ek

al-l-er-a-ek 83, al-l-er-ek, al-r-Ðk, afries., Pron.: nhd. jeder; ne. every (Pron.); ÜG.:
lat. quÆlibet AB (88, 17); Hw.: s. el-lik, man-n-ik; Q.: R, F, B, E, H, W, AB (88,
17); E.: s. al-l, el-lik; L.: Hh 2b, Rh 599b

drok = DU: "druk", EN: busy.

fle-t-t-a?, afries., sw. V. (1): Vw.: s. fle-t-e
fle-t-t 6, fle-t, afries., Sb.: nhd. Haus, Ehe; ne. house (N.), matrimony; Vw.: s. fora-,
-jef-t-ich, -jev-e; Hw.: vgl. an. flet, ae. fl’tt, as. fl’t*; Q.: W, Jur; E.: germ.
*flatja-, *flatjam, st. N. (a), Hausflur, Fleet; s. idg. *plÀt-, (*plÀd-), *plÁt-, *plÅt-,
*plýt-, Adj., breit, flach, Pokorny 833; vgl. idg. *pelý-, *plõ-, *p¢h2i-, Adj., V., breit,
flach, breiten, schlagen, klatschen, Pokorny 805; L.: Hh 28b, Rh 746a

nê-d-ig-ia 1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. nötigen, notzüchtigen,
vergewaltigen; ne. force (V.), rape (V.); Hw.: vgl. ahd. nætagæn*; Q.: E, H, W, R;
E.: s. nê-d; L.: Hh 75b, Rh 946

http://koeblergerhar...rieswbhinw.html

nêdgja: DU: neuken
http://www.etymologi...refwoord/neuken



My translation:

While everyone was busy fighting, there was a dirty Fin who had sneaked into the house, or bedroom, of the Mother and wanted to f_  her.


#3355    Abramelin

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:46 AM

View Postgestur, on 04 April 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

When *I* am talking extremely rich and powerful, I don't mean puppets like Billyboy Gates.

Yeah, I think what you're getting at: those you think are behind it all are those who wandered in a desert thousands of years ago before settling down and write a 'holy book', and then "took over the world".

But I think you're wrong although I also know whole 'hate sites' thrive on that nonsense.


#3356    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:22 AM

Some notes to the existing translations

OLB (original manuscript) page 4, line 25 to page 5, line 7;
followed by the Dutch and English translations from Ottema and Sandbach (1876, page 9-11).

SAWERSA J ÀFTA FRYA.S.BÀRN WILLE [1]
NÀMMER TO WINNADE [2]
HOR HRVCH [=> THRVCH] LESA [=> LESTA] NER THRVCH WÉPNE [3]
SA HAGATH J TO NVDANDE [4]
HAT [=> THAT] JVWE TOGHATERA ÀFTA FRYA WIVA WRDE. [5]


bijaldien gij echte Fryas kinderen wilt zijn,
nimmer te overwinnen
noch door list noch door wapenen,
zoo behoort gij er voor te waken,
dat uwe dochters echte Fryas vrouwen worden.

if you wish to remain true children of Frya,
never to be vanquished
by fraud or arms,
you must take care
to bring up your daughters as true Frya's daughters.


BÀRN MOT MÀN LÉRA. [6]
HO GRAT VS LÁND ÉR WÉSEN SÍ.
HOKKE GRATE MÀNNISKA VSA ÉTHLA WÉRON. [7]
HO GRÁT WI JETA SEND
SA WI VS DÀL LEDSATH BY ORA. [8]


Den kinderen moet men leeren,
hoe groot ons land weleer geweest is,
hoe groote mannen onze voorvaderen waren,
hoe groot wij nog zijn,
zoo wij ons neder liggen (vergelijken) bij anderen:

You must teach the children
how great our country has been,
what great men our forefathers were,
how great we still are,
if we compare ourselves to others.


MÀN MOT TÁLA HJAM [9]
FON THA WICHARDA ÀND FON HJARA WICHANDLIKA DÉDUM. [10]
ÀK WRA FÀRA SÉ.TOCHTA. [11]


men moet hun vertellen
van de zeehelden en van hunne heldhaftige daden,
ook over de verre zeetochten.

You must tell them
of the sea-heroes, of their mighty deeds
and distant voyages.


AL THISSA TÀLLINGA [12]
HAGATH DÉN TO WERTHANDE BY THÉRE HÉRD. [13]
VPPA HÉM ÀND HWÉR.ET WÉSA MÉI.
SÁ BY BLÍSKIP AS BÍ TARUM. [14]


Alle deze verhalen
behooren gedaan te worden bij den haard,
op het hiem, en waar het wezen moge,
zoo in blijdschap, als bij tranen.

All these stories
must be told by the fireside
and in the field, wherever it may be,
in times of joy or sorrow;


MEM [=> MEN] SKIL.ET STANDFÀST KVMA [15]
AN DET BRYN ÀND AN DÀT HIRTA. [16]
THÀN MOTON ALLE LÉRINGA [17]
OVERA WÉRA JVWERA WIVA ÀND TOGHATERA THÉR.IN STRÁMA.


Maar zal het standhoudend komen
in het brein en in het hart,
dan moeten alle leeringen
over de lippen uwer vrouwen en dochteren daarin vloeijen.

and if you wish to impress it
on the brains and the hearts of your sons,
you must let it flow
through the lips of your wives and your daughters.


Notes

[1] SAWERSA J ÀFTA FRYA.S.BÀRN WILLE
Ottema translated "WILLE" as "wilt zijn" (wish to be), Sandbach as "wish to remain". Jensma assumes that the word "BILYWA" was forgotten by the copyist and translates "wilt blijven" (wish to remain).
These are all interpretations, assuming that the Fryas believed in a sort of reincanation; that they would live forth in their children. Ofcourse this is possible, but the text literally says: "if you want real Fryas-children" (indien u echte Fryaskinderen wilt), in other words: if you want your offspring to be real children of Frya. This is not the same as "if you want to be" or "to remain", unless one assumes that parents live forth in their descendants.

[2] NÀMMER TO WINNADE
Sandbach has "never to be vanquished". I'd suggest "never to be won".

[3] HOR THRVCH LESTA NER THRVCH WÉPNE
S: (never) by fraud or arms => nor through sleight, nor through weapons

[4] HAGATH J TO NVDANDE
This is a good example to show that the OLB language is not a simple one-on-one translation from 19th century Dutch into Oldfrisian, as Knul claims.
O: behoort gij er voor te waken
S: you must take care
Literally it would be "acht u te noden" (you ought to need), which sounds absurd.

[5] THAT JVWE TOGHATERA ÀFTA FRYA WIVA WRDE
O: dat uwe dochters echte Fryas vrouwen worden
S: to bring up your daughters as true Frya's daughters
"FRYA WIVA" can be translated as "Frya wives" or "free wives". Sandbach's translation is not good IMO. I'd suggest: "that your daughters become true free (Frya) wives".

[6] BÀRN MOT MÀN LÉRA
S: You must teach the children => One must teach children (likewise [9])

[7] HOKKE GRATE MÀNNISKA VSA ÉTHLA WÉRON
Both Ottema and Sandbach are wrong.
O: hoe groote mannen onze voorvaderen waren
S: what great men our forefathers were
"MÀNNISKA" is "people" (Dutch/ German: mensen/ menschen) and "ÉTHLA" is ancestors, so this fragment is sex-neutral.

[8] SA WI VS DÀL LEDSATH BY ORA
S: if we compare ourselves to others
Literally: "as we lay us down by others".

[9] MÀN MOT TÁLA HJAM
S: "You must tell them" => "One must tell them" (as [6])

[10] FON THA WICHARDA ÀND FON HJARA WICHANDLIKA DÉDUM
O: van de zeehelden en van hunne heldhaftige daden
S: of the sea-heroes, of their mighty deeds
"WICHARDA" simply means "heroes". I'd change "mighty" into "heroic".

[11] ÀK WRA FÀRA SÉ.TOCHTA
S: and distant voyages => also of distant sea-voyages

[12] AL THISSA TÀLLINGA
O: Alle deze verhalen => vertellingen
S: All these stories => tales

[13] BY THÉRE HÉRD
S: by the fireside => hearth

[14] SÁ BY BLÍSKIP AS BÍ TARUM
S: in times of joy or sorrow => tears

[15] MEN SKIL.ET STANDFÀST KVMA
S: and if you wish to impress it
=> but shall it come standing-fast (permanent)

[16] AN DET BRYN ÀND AN DÀT HIRTA
S: on the brains and the hearts of your sons
=> on the brain and on the heart

[17] THÀN MOTON ALLE LÉRINGA
OVERA WÉRA JVWERA WIVA ÀND TOGHATERA THÉR.IN STRÁMA

S: you must let it flow
through the lips of your wives and your daughters
=> then all teachings must
stream over the lips of your wives and daughters

=====

It is striking how Ottema and Sandbach have changed this fragment into something more male-dominant.

Now I'd like to ask a native English speaker (Puzzler?) to summarise the meaning of this fragment, in your own words, as I think it explains very well why the enemies of the Fryas would have wanted to destroy the old indigenous written and oral traditions.

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#3357    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:41 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 April 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

... if a newspaper publishes something he really doesn't like, he'll buy the newspaper.

Bravo!
Who owns the mass-media?

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3358    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:42 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 April 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

You mean the [...] Frisians [...] would start a revolution or something?

No.
Women.

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#3359    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 02 April 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

I don't see any "pre-christian sentiment"  here.

LOL - why do you think it is named the BATAVIAN revolution?

Mind the symbolism (women, fasces, etc):

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#3360    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 03 April 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Tha wepmen weren iwaxen..........................The men were numerous

and tha heore nutene....................................and the cattle abundant....................nutene = abundant so maybe a nuts connection ??

"wepmen - iwaxen" => weapon-men (warriers) grown (in number)?

"nutene" seems indeed connected to enough (Dutch: genoeg / genoegen / geneugte / genoten)

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