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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3361    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:02 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 03 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Not scared at all.

There is no reason to be scared.

But there are very good reasons to not believe everything one learns at school and from mass media.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3362    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:45 AM

Concerning the sensitivity of the info in the OLB, and earlier attempts to intimidate its advocates, some relevant fragments.

Cornelis Over de Linden to Dr. Ottema, 16-11-1871:

I don't have the slightest doubts that one day the truth will come float to the surface, but now that I have studied your translation, I figure that the laws described in it are very radical, and that when the theology it teaches would become that of the people again, all sorts of clergymen would have to find a new job. That is why I think they will oppose it as much as is in their power.

Dr. Ottema to L.F. Over de Linden, 24-06-1876:

I wish someone would act who is courageous enough to defend the OLB in public, without fear for the systematic intimidation.
Because all the howling is intimidation, started by Spectator magazine and systematically sustained.
There are enough proponents, but they dare not speak, out of fear of being declared fool or villain.


Source: fryskednis/letters-ottema-over-de-linden

.

Fragment of "Het Oera-Linda-Boek in Duitschland en hier" (The OLB in Germany and here), by Dr. Murk de Jong (1939), about the way Herman Wirth was silenced by Nazi-'scientists'.

Quote

Door een (gekortwiekte) vertaling had hij het voor het Duitsche volk toegankelijk gemaakt. Het sloeg in. Onderwijzers namen het mee naar school om er de jeugd uit voor te lezen, zoo goed als Wirth het op den katheder den studenten deed. Een Oera-Linda-cultus dreigde, met Wirth als profeet.
Maar ook een crisis in de Duitsche wetenschap. [...]
In koortsachtige opwinding werd alles in het werk gesteld om Wirth of het O.L.B., dat kwam vrijwel op het zelfde neer, tegen de vlakte te slaan. [...]
Er is tenslotte op den 4den Mei 1934 een groote demonstratie van Duitsche geleerden noodig geweest, om Wirth voorlopig het zwijgen op te leggen. Een demonstratie was het, meer dan een wetenschappelijk debat [...]

Translation:

With a (shortened) translation he had made it accessible for the German people. It was a smasher. Teachers took it to school to read it to the youth, like Wirth did for his students at university. An Oera-Linda-cult impended, with Wirth as its prophet.
But also a crisis in German science.
[...]
In feverish fuss all was done to crush Wirth or the OLB, that was virtually the same. [...]
Finnally on the 4th of May 1934, it took a great demonstration of German scientists, to silence Wirth for the time being. A demonstartion (show) it was, more than a scientific debate [...]


Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3363    Abramelin

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:00 AM

View Postgestur, on 04 April 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

No.
Women.

Jeesh, is this about women demanding equal rights or something? Or acknowledgement for their role in European prehistory?


#3364    Abramelin

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:02 AM

View Postgestur, on 04 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

LOL - why do you think it is named the BATAVIAN revolution?

Mind the symbolism (women, fasces, etc):

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I had a bit of a different idea about what you may have meant with those 'pre-christian sentiments'.

This is nothing but romanticism.


#3365    Jan Ott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:07 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 04 April 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Jeesh, is this about women...



Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3366    Abramelin

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:08 AM

View Postgestur, on 04 April 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

There is no reason to be scared.

But there are very good reasons to not believe everything one learns at school and from mass media.

That's because Puzz quoted Mario Dantas who said this:

Quote


I really am ridiculously scared to talk about this. I find that the grave accusations made here, reflect all the psychological weight of the subject, so no need to say more.

-

What is being learned about history at school often differs from country to country. When you are aware of that, you can start connecting the dots..... and still find nothing about the OLB or an unknown and ancient European civilization.


#3367    Abramelin

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:58 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 04 April 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Jeesh, is this about women demanding equal rights or something? Or acknowledgement for their role in European prehistory?

Though their ideas met with a lot of criticism, the views of the next two people were not swept under the carpet:

Marija Gimbutas
http://en.wikipedia....Marija_Gimbutas

Robert Graves.
http://en.wikipedia....e_White_Goddess

The White Goddess has been seen as a poetic work where Graves gives his notion of man's subjection to women in love an "anthropological grandeur" and further mythologises all women in general (and several of Graves's lovers in specific) into a three-faced moon goddess model. Graves's value as a poet aside, flaws in his scholarship such as poor philology, use of inadequate texts and out-dated archaeology have been criticised. Some scholars, particularly archaeologists, historians and folklorists have not received the work favourably. Graves was disappointed that his work was "loudly ignored" by many Celtic scholars; however, it was accepted as history by many non-scholarly readers and, according to Ronald Hutton, The White Goddess remains a major source of confusion about the ancient Celts and influences many un-scholarly views of Celtic paganism. Hilda Ellis Davidson criticized Graves as having "misled many innocent readers with his eloquent but deceptive statements about a nebulous goddess in early Celtic literature", and stated that he was "no authority" on the subject matter he presented. While Graves made the association between Goddesses and the moon appear "natural," it was not so to the Celts or some other ancient peoples. Some Neopagans have been bemused and upset by the scholarly criticism that The White Goddess has received in recent years, while others have appreciated its poetic insight but never accepted it as a work of historical veracity.

Michael W. Pharand, though quoting earlier criticisms, rebutted, "Graves's theories and conclusions, outlandish as they seemed to his contemporaries (or may appear to us), were the result of careful observation."

In response to critics, Graves has accused literary scholars of being psychologically incapable of interpreting myth or too concerned with maintaining their perquisites to go against the majority view. (See Frazer quote.)


http://en.wikipedia....ddess#Criticism


Graves' book online:
http://72.52.202.216...ite-Goddess.pdf

An analysis:
http://rogerbourke.i...TO-MISTRESS.pdf

Triple Goddess:
http://en.wikipedia....s_(Neopaganism)

.

http://en.wikipedia....s_(Neopaganism)

Edited by Abramelin, 04 April 2013 - 02:49 PM.


#3368    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:45 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 04 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Oh, I do like the word. It means what it is supposed to mean: BEDROOM. And a word not older than the 16th century.

But I don't think "the month Boedromion" has much to do with it...


Hwil that alrek drok to kaempane wêre, was thêr en wla Fin to thêre flête jefta bedrum fon thêre Moder inglupth, ând wilde hja nêdgja.

Sandbach:
While the fight was going on, a rascally Finn stole into the chamber of the mother, and would have done her violence.


alr-ek, afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. all-er-a-ek

al-l-er-a-ek 83, al-l-er-ek, al-r-Ðk, afries., Pron.: nhd. jeder; ne. every (Pron.); ÜG.:
lat. quÆlibet AB (88, 17); Hw.: s. el-lik, man-n-ik; Q.: R, F, B, E, H, W, AB (88,
17); E.: s. al-l, el-lik; L.: Hh 2b, Rh 599b

drok = DU: "druk", EN: busy.

fle-t-t-a?, afries., sw. V. (1): Vw.: s. fle-t-e
fle-t-t 6, fle-t, afries., Sb.: nhd. Haus, Ehe; ne. house (N.), matrimony; Vw.: s. fora-,
-jef-t-ich, -jev-e; Hw.: vgl. an. flet, ae. fl’tt, as. fl’t*; Q.: W, Jur; E.: germ.
*flatja-, *flatjam, st. N. (a), Hausflur, Fleet; s. idg. *plÀt-, (*plÀd-), *plÁt-, *plÅt-,
*plýt-, Adj., breit, flach, Pokorny 833; vgl. idg. *pelý-, *plõ-, *p¢h2i-, Adj., V., breit,
flach, breiten, schlagen, klatschen, Pokorny 805; L.: Hh 28b, Rh 746a

nê-d-ig-ia 1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. nötigen, notzüchtigen,
vergewaltigen; ne. force (V.), rape (V.); Hw.: vgl. ahd. nætagæn*; Q.: E, H, W, R;
E.: s. nê-d; L.: Hh 75b, Rh 946

http://koeblergerhar...rieswbhinw.html

nêdgja: DU: neuken
http://www.etymologi...refwoord/neuken



My translation:

While everyone was busy fighting, there was a dirty Fin who had sneaked into the house, or bedroom, of the Mother and wanted to f_  her.

Ok and not , while everyone was fighting drunk , after the bedromia (ie the celebrations they had all come for ) a drunken Finn sneaked into the mothers house , to have his way with her .


#3369    Jan Ott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:01 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 04 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:


No.
On that site you linked to, it does not say "neuken" is related to "nêdgja" or "nêdigia".

NÉDGJA => nodigen, noden, noodzaken, dwingen (to force someone)
source: gtb.inl.nl/nodigen

Oldfrisian dictionary - Hettema (1832):
nedga, neda, nedera, nednima; naeedje, naeerje, naeednimje; schaken verkrachten (to rape)

(I think "neuken" is related to geneugte, genot, NOCHTA => pleasure, but oldschool etymology does not agree yet.)

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3370    Abramelin

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:14 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 05 April 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Ok and not , while everyone was fighting drunk , after the bedromia (ie the celebrations they had all come for ) a drunken Finn sneaked into the mothers house , to have his way with her .

"Drok" doesn't mean 'drunk', but "busy" or "druk" in Dutch. An older form is "drock(e)" :

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...db=MNW&id=07869
http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/druk1

-

LOL, what celebrations?? The word is not 'bedromia', but simply "bedrvm" or ''bedroom".

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...db=MNW&id=07869
http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/druk1

"Jefta" means "or", not "after"


#3371    Abramelin

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:16 PM

View Postgestur, on 05 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

No.
On that site you linked to, it does not say "neuken" is related to "nêdgja" or "nêdigia".

NÉDGJA => nodigen, noden, noodzaken, dwingen (to force someone)
source: gtb.inl.nl/nodigen

Oldfrisian dictionary - Hettema (1832):
nedga, neda, nedera, nednima; naeedje, naeerje, naeednimje; schaken verkrachten (to rape)

(I think "neuken" is related to geneugte, genot, NOCHTA => pleasure, but oldschool etymology does not agree yet.)

This is what it also says: on.(old Norse): hnykkja


#3372    Jan Ott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 April 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

This is what it also says: on.(old Norse): hnykkja

So "neuken" has an oldnorse equivalent.
That does not mean "neuken" is related to Oldfrisian NÉDGJA (nedga, neda, etc.)

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#3373    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:01 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 05 April 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Ok and not , while everyone was fighting drunk , after the bedromia (ie the celebrations they had all come for ) a drunken Finn sneaked into the mothers house , to have his way with her .

Ok then we are not allowed by your reckoning to play around with the meaning behind the words.. so by your way what does that sentence say , word for word ?

Hwil   that alrek  drok  to Kaempane were................................You say it says
while that every  or   to .............................what did the whole of the sentence say word for word.. and does it make sense , or do you need to interpret it ??

what is the (or to ) doing there it does not help make sense of the sentence ?? alrek means every , drok means or  .

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 06 April 2013 - 12:13 AM.


#3374    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:04 AM

Just going back to 'tohnekka' and hnekka/neck

The word tunic is of possible Etruscan origin - so if Fryans were in Near Krekaland it's possible they shared this word - then it passed into Latin as a clothing item that went to your/around your neck - most clothing that is, togas etc.

If it means 'to the neck' it is quite possibly an IE word and makes perfect sense in Fryan of the meaning and spelling in the OLB word used. The word also led me to think the word 'knickers' might be connected - which means 'an undergarment' - either way - I do not think the word is from Latin into Fryan OLB.

I did a Google and looks like one of Tony Steele's? fam's has given this tidbit about her outfit: The tohnekka (a word that is apparently related to "tunic", but which literally means "to the neck") is shown in my avatar picture.  http://www.religious...s-garments.html

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#3375    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 10:34 AM

View Postgestur, on 05 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

No.
On that site you linked to, it does not say "neuken" is related to "nêdgja" or "nêdigia".

NÉDGJA => nodigen, noden, noodzaken, dwingen (to force someone)
source: gtb.inl.nl/nodigen

Oldfrisian dictionary - Hettema (1832):
nedga, neda, nedera, nednima; naeedje, naeerje, naeednimje; schaken verkrachten (to rape)

(I think "neuken" is related to geneugte, genot, NOCHTA => pleasure, but oldschool etymology does not agree yet.)

Ya reckon?

Interesting. I could get back to a PIE type word meaning 'to be exhausted' - which could possibly be a root for 'enough' - ie; I've had enough = I'm exhausted.

I can see PIE doesn't give it, but when 2 PIE words can have the same meaning, it gives me cause to think they could share a root - so, yeah, could be.

Edited by The Puzzler, 06 April 2013 - 10:34 AM.

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