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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3421    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 April 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Men, o dvmhêd. Dâhwila wi to dvande send ekkorum to skâdane, kvmth-et nidige folk Findas mith hjara falska presterum jvw hâva to râwande, jvwa toghatera to skaendane, jvwa sêda to vrdva aend to tha lesta klaeppath hja slâvona banda om jahwelikes frya hals.

Sandbach:
O foolish people! while you are injuring each other the spiteful Finda’s people with their false priests come and attack your ports, ravish your daughters, corrupt your morals, and at last throw the bonds of slavery over every freeman’s neck.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#an

Puzz, as you can see, "hals" must mean 'neck' here.


=

And NO-ID-EA, here "slâvona" obviously means 'slaves'.

So we have a little problem here: Old Frisian for 'slave' is "skalk".


Thanks Abe , what is your opinion that the Slavs got their name then because they were slaves  ? and is Boppa the Pope ?

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 07 April 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#3422    Knul

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:43 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 April 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Men, o dvmhêd. Dâhwila wi to dvande send ekkorum to skâdane, kvmth-et nidige folk Findas mith hjara falska presterum jvw hâva to râwande, jvwa toghatera to skaendane, jvwa sêda to vrdva aend to tha lesta klaeppath hja slâvona banda om jahwelikes frya hals.

Sandbach:
O foolish people! while you are injuring each other the spiteful Finda’s people with their false priests come and attack your ports, ravish your daughters, corrupt your morals, and at last throw the bonds of slavery over every freeman’s neck.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#an



jvw hâva to râwande - wrong translation 'ports'. hâva means goods, possesions (Dutch: have).


#3423    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:30 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 07 April 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

If i could have read Poltergeists post in 2011 , i would have replied the word undigerhed reminds me of undignified same as puzzler , i was also into Sumerian transcriptions at the time , and may have mentioned the sumerian word Dinger , for Royalty or nobility . maybe same conotation  ? un-noble,


from the etymology text i read Hals means more specifically Collar , still relating to neck , as in collar bone , and collar of a shirt , but also poss as an iron collar for a slave , and therfore poss related to a tourniquet , cable-tow ( freemasons still wear one at an initiation  by the way ) or a noose .
Yes, got it, like a HALter - halter neck shirt - I couldn't think of an English word that kept the hals meaning but halter would be one.

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#3424    Abramelin

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:41 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 07 April 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Thanks Abe , what is your opinion that the Slavs got their name then because they were slaves  ? and is Boppa the Pope ?

It certainly looks like the Slavs got their name for being slaves; look at post #3418

"boppa" is 'boven' or up, above.

++++

EDIT:

Lol, it's the other way round of course: slaves got their 'name' for often being Slavs who were captured and forced to serve a master.

EDIT:

It appears to be a bit complicated:


The Slavic autonym is reconstructed in Proto-Slavic as Slověninъ. The oldest documents written in Old Church Slavonic and dating from the 9th century attest Словѣне Slověne to describe the Slavs. Other early Slavic attestations include Old East Slavic Словѣнѣ Slověně for "an East Slavic group near Novgorod." However, the earliest written references to the Slavs under this name are in other languages. In the 6th century CE Procopius, writing in Byzantine Greek, refers to the Σκλάβοι Sklaboi, Σκλαβηνοί Sklabēnoi, Σκλαυηνοί Sklauenoi, Σθλαβηνοί Sthlauenoi, or Σκλαβῖνοι Sklabinoi, while his contemporary Jordanes refers to the Sclaveni in Latin.

The Slavic autonym Slověninъ is usually considered a derivation from slovo "word", originally denoting "people who speak (the same language)," i.e. people who understand each other, in contrast to the Slavic word denoting "foreign people" – němci, meaning "mumbling, murmuring people" (from Slavic němъ – "mumbling, mute"). The latter word may be the derivation of words to denote German/Germanic people in many later Slavic languages: e.g., Czech Němec, Slovak Nemec, Slovene Nemec, Belarusian, Russian and Bulgarian Немец, Serbian Немац, Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian Nijemac, Polish Niemiec, Ukrainian Німець, etc.,[32] but another theory states that rather these words are derived from the name of the Nemetes tribe, which is derived from the Celtic root nemeto-.


The English word Slav is derived from the Middle English word sclave, which was borrowed from Medieval Latin sclavus "slave," itself a borrowing and Byzantine Greek σκλάβος sklábos "slave," which was in turn apparently derived from a misunderstanding of the Slavic autonym (denoting a speaker of their own languages). The Byzantine term Sklavinoi was loaned into Arabic as Saqaliba by medieval Arab historiographers. However, the origin of this word is disputed.

Alternative proposals for the etymology of Slověninъ propounded by some scholars have much less support. B.P. Lozinski argues that the word slava once had the meaning of worshipper, in this context meaning "practicer of a common Slavic religion," and from that evolved into an ethnonym. S.B. Bernstein speculates that it derives from a reconstructed Proto-Indo-European *(s)lawos, cognate to Ancient Greek λαός laós "population, people," which itself has no commonly accepted etymology. Meanwhile others have pointed out that the suffix -enin indicates a man from a certain place, which in this case should be a place called Slova or Slava, possibly a river name. The Old East Slavic Slavuta for the Dnieper River was argued by Henrich Bartek (1907–1986) to be derived from slova and also the origin of Slovene.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 April 2013 - 05:56 AM.


#3425    Abramelin

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:43 AM

View PostKnul, on 07 April 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

jvw hâva to râwande - wrong translation 'ports'. hâva means goods, possesions (Dutch: have).

Yes, but I only focused on two words in that sentence: hals and slâvona.


#3426    Abramelin

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:12 AM

For those who can read German:

Altnordisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch - Jan de Vries (2000), 374 pages.
(Old Norse Etymological Dictionary)

http://de.scribd.com...2000-Compressed


#3427    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:25 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 08 April 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Yes, got it, like a HALter - halter neck shirt - I couldn't think of an English word that kept the hals meaning but halter would be one.

and maybe the Halberd , the spike/axe like weapon which was used by infantry , to aim up under the helmet of cavalry/knights , aiming at the neck. ... only problem it was not made of wool or linen .

Just as an aside , i remember from my sumerian reading ... that one of the most feared deaths for a summerian was to be hanged , they believed that you not only killed the body by hanging , but by the rope around the neck you also imprisoned the soul/spirit , and for some reason it prevented its leaving the body, cant remember the exact details .but the spirit would then either be cremated or be buried in the earth, with the soul still inside.

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 08 April 2013 - 08:15 AM.


#3428    Abramelin

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:13 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 08 April 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

and maybe the Halberd , the spike/axe like weapon which was used by infantry , to aim up under the helmet of cavalry/knights , aiming at the neck. ... only problem it was not made of wool or linen .

There are more problems:

Originally the halberd was nothing but an axe blade on a very long shaft (or "halm").



halberd (n.)
late 15c., from Middle French hallebarde (earlier alabarde, 15c.), from Middle High German halmbarte "broad-axe with handle," from halm "handle" (see helm) + barte "hatchet," possibly from Proto-Germanic *bardoz "beard," also "hatchet, broadax." Alternative etymology [Kluge, Darmesteter] traces first element to helm "helmet," making the weapon an axe for smashing helmets.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none


A halberd (also called halbard, halbert or Swiss voulge) is a two-handed pole weapon that came to prominent use during the 14th and 15th centuries. The word halberd may come from the German words Halm (staff), and Barte (axe). In modern-day German, the weapon is called a Hellebarde. The halberd consists of an axe blade topped with a spike mounted on a long shaft. It always has a hook or thorn on the back side of the axe blade for grappling mounted combatants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halberd


#3429    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:12 PM

i thought Hal = Collar , and B-ard  , ard =high , for a weapon to be used/aimed collar-high was pretty good


#3430    Abramelin

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:51 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 08 April 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

i thought Hal = Collar , and B-ard  , ard =high , for a weapon to be used/aimed collar-high was pretty good

Sorry NO, but this isn't Scrabble we're playing here: you can't just chop a word up into convenient pieces you have a meaning for..

And even in Dutch the word originally started with HELM instead of HEL ("hellebaard").

http://www.etymologi...oord/hellebaard

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 April 2013 - 08:10 PM.


#3431    Jan Ott

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:22 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 April 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

this isn't Scrabble we're playing here: you can't just chop a word up into convenient pieces you have a meaning for..

That is exactly why TONECKA / TUNIC is not derived from the Hebrew or Amamaic version of COTTON / KATOEN.

Neck must be an old word as it has varieties in many languages:

neck - english
nek - dutch
nacken, genick - german
nacke - swedish
nakke - danish, norwegian
nuque - french
hnecca - oldfrisian (Hettema)
nekke - frisian

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3432    Jan Ott

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 April 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

So we have a little problem here: Old Frisian for 'slave' is "skalk".

I don't see any problem.

SKALK can mean knegt, slaaf, zoon, vriend (assistant or knight, slave, son, friend), according to Hettema's Oldfrisian dictionary.

Varieties of SKALK are used in OLB too, and its meaning will be closer to friend / assistant than to slave:

THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA

A.DEL WAS.NE MINLIKA SKALK

THA SIND THÉR VNWARLINGA FJUWER SKALKA MORTH ÀND NAKED UTEKLÁT

THAM HJARA SEL FORI GOD.IS SKALKUM UT JAVON

Related:

THÀT.ER NÉN KVA FORMVDA NAVT RISA NE MÉI NOR SKALKHÉD DÉN NE WRDE

MEN THAT VRSKALKTON VSA WÁKENDOM

THES DÉIS VRSKALKTH.I THÉR

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#3433    Abramelin

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

View Postgestur, on 09 April 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

That is exactly why TONECKA / TUNIC is not derived from the Hebrew or Amamaic version of COTTON / KATOEN.

Neck must be an old word as it has varieties in many languages:

neck - english
nek - dutch
nacken, genick - german
nacke - swedish
nakke - danish, norwegian
nuque - french
hnecca - oldfrisian (Hettema)
nekke - frisian

But that's what you are doing: chopping up a word. TOHNEKKA into To Hnekka.

The LATIN (yes) TUNICA and the OLB TOHNEKKA were both made of wool. That's the second time I say it is connected with/derived from the LATIN 'tunica'.

The Semitic etymology was only a probable one (third time I think).

And the Latin word may have come from Etruscan. If we finally know the Etruscan word, then we can go a step further.


#3434    Abramelin

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

View Postgestur, on 09 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

I don't see any problem.

SKALK can mean knegt, slaaf, zoon, vriend (assistant or knight, slave, son, friend), according to Hettema's Oldfrisian dictionary.

Varieties of SKALK are used in OLB too, and its meaning will be closer to friend / assistant than to slave:

THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA

A.DEL WAS.NE MINLIKA SKALK

THA SIND THÉR VNWARLINGA FJUWER SKALKA MORTH ÀND NAKED UTEKLÁT

THAM HJARA SEL FORI GOD.IS SKALKUM UT JAVON

Related:

THÀT.ER NÉN KVA FORMVDA NAVT RISA NE MÉI NOR SKALKHÉD DÉN NE WRDE

MEN THAT VRSKALKTON VSA WÁKENDOM

THES DÉIS VRSKALKTH.I THÉR

The problem is this: when did the Slavs get enslaved en masse?


#3435    Jan Ott

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:47 AM

View Postgestur, on 07 April 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Related to DIGER are the Dutch words "degelijk" and "terdege".
gtb.inl.nl/degelijk 1
gtb.inl.nl/degelijk 2
gtb.inl.nl/terdege

And "gedegen", older form: "githigan"
gtb.inl.nl/gedegen

Also the old word DEGE or DEECH, DEEG:
gtb.inl.nl/deeg

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com