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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3586    Abramelin

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:27 PM

This is from the OLB:

Posted Image

Wralda, the Beginning, the Beginning.



This is what it should have been:

Posted Image

Wralda, the Beginning, the End.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 April 2013 - 08:32 PM.


#3587    Abramelin

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:43 PM

View Postgestur, on 19 April 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

OLB p. 45
... THI TÉKNA FON THAT JOL.
THAT IS THAT FORMA SINNE BILD WR.ALDA.S.
AK FON T.ANFANG JEFTHA T.BIJIN
WÉRUT TID KÉM


Ottema p.65
... de teekens van het Juul,
dat is het eerste zinnebeeld van Wralda,
ook van den aanvang of het begin,
waaruit de Tijd is voortgekomen

Sandbach p.65
... the signs of the Juul
—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda,
also of the origin or beginning
from which Time is derived



Sandbach's translation of "T.Anfang" is wrong: it doesn't mean 'origin', it's just another word for 'the beginning'.

And you said:

"I suggest that, like Tanfana may have come from T.ANFANG (origin)"

I have posted about the meaning of the name "Tanfana", and it had nothing to do with any 'origin'.

++

EDIT:


Tanfana or Tamfana was a goddess of the Istvaeones in ancient Germanic paganism, the destruction of whose temple in the territory of the Marsi is mentioned in Tacitus' Annals.

Since fana is Latin for "temples," it has been suggested that it was a temple to a god Tan, shortened from the German word for a pine-tree, Tanne, or that the first element meant "collective."[4][5] The division of the word was rejected by Grimm among others;[6] he called the name "certainly German," the -ana ending being also found in Hludana, Bertana, Rapana, and Madana.

A. G. de Bruyn, a scholar of Oldenzaal folklore, returned to splitting the name into Tan and fana on toponymic grounds and because of a stamp dated 1336 found near Ommen that shows a woman holding a fir tree flanked by a sun symbol and a catlike creature and a bird; he proposed that she was a moon or a mother goddess, perhaps related to the Carthaginian goddess Tanit.[16] He and more recently Rudi Klijnstra relate Tanfana, or Tan, to legends surrounding de Groote Steen te Oldenzaal (the Big Stone at Oldenzaal) in the area of Overijssel; the stone was originally located on a hill called Tankenberg, the highest point in the area, but was later moved into the city
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanfana

Posted Image

On this seal is a woman with in her ​​hand a fir tree ( Tanne, alluding to Tan). Top left of her is a solar symbol, and she is flanked by a cat and a bird. The seal symbolizes the marriage of the moon goddess Tan with the sun, and after marriage she changed from a moon goddess into a mother.  The origin of the seal is completely pre-Christian, and the current insignia of Ommen, according to De Bruijn, is "a caricature and a proof of the shameful ignorance that prevails in our country concerning this subject." The Christians claimed Tan to be equal to the Irish Saint Brigida.  The old pagan customs for her devotion survived, such as burning an eternal flame.  The Irish clergy forbade this use in 1200.  In Noorbeek, Limburg, people still have the custom of erecting a pine tree in front of the chapel that is dedicated to Brigida in early February during the new moon. Finally, Tan has a sound-relationship with the old word for stone, "stan". This is the symbol for the earth, source of new life.  The cavities of the stone are also resting places for the souls of the dead.

http://www.nederland.../oldenzaal.html



Posted Image


And does all this have anything to do with "origin" or "beginning"?

No.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 April 2013 - 09:03 PM.


#3588    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:59 AM

anfang in the Frisian Dictionary seems to go to 'touch'.

on-fa-n-g


* 1, on-fe-n-g, an-fe-n-g*, afries., st. M. (i): nhd. Anfassen; ne. touch

This word is very interesting and conjures up all sorts of things that could lead to it also meaning 'origin'. It doesn't seem to etymologically connect though.
origin (n.) Posted Image c.1400, "ancestry, race," from Old French origine "origin, race," and directly from Latin originem (nominative origo) "a rise, commencement, beginning, source; descent, lineage, birth," from stem of oriri "to rise, become visible, appear" (see orchestra). originate (v.) Posted Image 1650s, probably a back-formation of origination. In earliest reference it meant "to trace the origin of;" meaning "to bring into existence" is from 1650s; intransitive sense of "to come into existence" is from 1775. Related: Originated; originating. original (adj.) Posted Image early 14c., "first in time, earliest," from Old French original "first" (13c.) and directly from Latin originalis, from originem (nominative origo) "beginning, source, birth," from oriri "to rise" (see orchestra). The first reference is in original sin "innate depravity of man's nature," supposed to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall. Related: Originally.
http://www.etymonlin...p?term=original


OK, then I found this: conception would certainly be considered 'origin', even though possibly 'conception' or 'first touch' may be better Fryan.

ont-fa-n-g-ere




1, ont-fe-n-g-ere, and-fa-n-g-ere*, afries., st. M. (ja): nhd.


Empfänger; ne. receiver; Q.: Jur; E.: s. ont-fõ; L.: Hh 24b, Rh 1102a

ont-fa-n-g-nisse




1, ont-fo-n-g-nisse, afries., st. F. (jæ): nhd. Empfängnis; ne.


conception; Hw.: vgl. ahd. intfangnissa*; Q.: E.: E.: s. ont-fõ, *-nisse; L.: Hh 138a,

Rh 1102a

Edited by The Puzzler, 20 April 2013 - 03:03 AM.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#3589    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:51 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 April 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

This is from the OLB:

Posted Image

Wralda, the Beginning, the Beginning.



This is what it should have been:

Posted Image

Wralda, the Beginning, the End.

.

It says Wralda-1 - the origin/conception-2 or beginning-3 - all the same sign, all the same meaning.

Edit: What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived;

Edited by The Puzzler, 20 April 2013 - 03:58 AM.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#3590    Abramelin

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:55 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 April 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

anfang in the Frisian Dictionary seems to go to 'touch'.

on-fa-n-g


* 1, on-fe-n-g, an-fe-n-g*, afries., st. M. (i): nhd. Anfassen; ne. touch

This word is very interesting and conjures up all sorts of things that could lead to it also meaning 'origin'. It doesn't seem to etymologically connect though.
origin (n.) Posted Image c.1400, "ancestry, race," from Old French origine "origin, race," and directly from Latin originem (nominative origo) "a rise, commencement, beginning, source; descent, lineage, birth," from stem of oriri "to rise, become visible, appear" (see orchestra). originate (v.) Posted Image 1650s, probably a back-formation of origination. In earliest reference it meant "to trace the origin of;" meaning "to bring into existence" is from 1650s; intransitive sense of "to come into existence" is from 1775. Related: Originated; originating. original (adj.) Posted Image early 14c., "first in time, earliest," from Old French original "first" (13c.) and directly from Latin originalis, from originem (nominative origo) "beginning, source, birth," from oriri "to rise" (see orchestra). The first reference is in original sin "innate depravity of man's nature," supposed to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall. Related: Originally.
http://www.etymonlin...p?term=original


OK, then I found this: conception would certainly be considered 'origin', even though possibly 'conception' or 'first touch' may be better Fryan.

ont-fa-n-g-ere




1, ont-fe-n-g-ere, and-fa-n-g-ere*, afries., st. M. (ja): nhd.


Empfänger; ne. receiver; Q.: Jur; E.: s. ont-fõ; L.: Hh 24b, Rh 1102a

ont-fa-n-g-nisse




1, ont-fo-n-g-nisse, afries., st. F. (jæ): nhd. Empfängnis; ne.


conception; Hw.: vgl. ahd. intfangnissa*; Q.: E.: E.: s. ont-fõ, *-nisse; L.: Hh 138a,

Rh 1102a

Dutch "ontvangen" means to 'receive'', 'conceive', 'to pick up', and so on.

Dutch "aanvangen" means 'to start', 'to commence', 'to begin'.

In short (and that is also true in Frisian) : ONT=/= AAN/ON


.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 April 2013 - 03:56 AM.


#3591    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:03 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 April 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

Dutch "ontvangen" means to 'receive'', 'conceive', 'to pick up', and so on.

Dutch "aanvangen" means 'to start', 'to commence', 'to begin'.

In short (and that is also true in Frisian) : ONT=/= AAN/ON


.

And that is fine, I appreciate it goes through to begin in Dutch, since origin is pretty much the same, but in fact, I think it's important to distinguish the words correctly, because it's not Dutch, it's Fryan. It might seem like beginning and beginning but it's not and Sandbach made no mistake, the word is origin or more correctly touch/conception - it has 2 different words but mean similar but not the same and they are both used here, 'origin or beginning' - that's all I mean.

Edited by The Puzzler, 20 April 2013 - 04:04 AM.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#3592    Abramelin

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:03 AM

And what does the OLB itself say it means?

T.ANFANG JEFTHA T.BIJIN = T ANFANG, or beginning.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 April 2013 - 04:04 AM.


#3593    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:06 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 April 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

And what does the OLB itself say it means?

T.ANFANG JEFTHA T.BIJIN = T ANFANG, or beginning.

.

I answered. The word is similar in meaning yes hence OR but the word t.anfang should be interpreted as a different word and that word is origin or conception.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#3594    Abramelin

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:08 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

I answered. The word is similar in meaning yes hence OR but the word t.anfang should be interpreted as a different word and that word is origin or conception.

The OR or JEFTHA indicates two different words meaning the same thing.


#3595    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:19 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 April 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

The OR or JEFTHA indicates two different words meaning the same thing.

I know, 2 DIFFERENT words, meaning the same thing. But different words is the key point I'm making - yes it could mean beginning and beginning but it doesn't read as that, it says touch and beginning if anything, even though I do understand the words have the same meaning. It doesn't matter what it means in Dutch or English, it's what it means in Fryan/Frisian.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#3596    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:23 AM

Call me 'dogmatic' but the aim for me is to find the closest Fryan/Frisian meanings.

Father why are all the children weeping? They are merely crying son. O, are they merely crying father? Yes, true weeping is yet to come...
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds

#3597    Abramelin

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:07 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 April 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Call me 'dogmatic' but the aim for me is to find the closest Fryan/Frisian meanings.

If you want to use "Fryan" only, then you better stop using etymology sites and dictionaries.

But if you do anyway, you'll have to accept the fact that Dutch and German are very close to the language used in he OLB.

Words that have no equal in Dutch often have an equal in German or English.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 April 2013 - 06:07 AM.


#3598    Abramelin

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:12 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 20 April 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

I know, 2 DIFFERENT words, meaning the same thing. But different words is the key point I'm making - yes it could mean beginning and beginning but it doesn't read as that, it says touch and beginning if anything, even though I do understand the words have the same meaning. It doesn't matter what it means in Dutch or English, it's what it means in Fryan/Frisian.

I know where you got that 'touch' from, but it actually means something like 'start hands on'. You begin to do something, things start rolling.

And if we start nitpicking, you should not use the word "Frisian" either, lol.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 April 2013 - 06:19 AM.


#3599    Abramelin

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:18 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 20 April 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

The OR or JEFTHA indicates two different words meaning the same thing.

"The Titanic was a vessel or ship".

Vessel could mean a bottle or container of some sorts, but HERE it means a thing floating on the sea with lots of people on/in it.


#3600    gestur

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:21 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 19 April 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Aristophon in the " Archonship of Euclides " ( 403 BC) talks of one of the laws made was that anyone who was born where both parents are not Citizens is considered a bast.ard.

Does anyone know what word was used in the (most) original text?

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com




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