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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#4096    The Puzzler

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:41 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 18 June 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

And that is about people living on the land (farmers), not about SAILORS.

And it is also too late for anything OLB.

Well, if we have to believe the OLB isn't a fake MS...... which I think it is.
The thing is, the OLB actually states these salt-atha came from the mountains (in India). They may have become sailors from experience in river sailing or something but don't appear to have been made up of actual sailors of the ocean.

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#4097    Ott

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:38 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 18 June 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

My point was that salt could easily be extracted from a bowl of sea water.


I suggest you try that yourself this summer.

Saltmen of Tibet (trailer):
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=eQPIF9klVwU

Posted Image


"SAVED FROM THE FLOOD" ~ Oera Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com/


#4098    Abramelin

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:06 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 19 June 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

The thing is, the OLB actually states these salt-atha came from the mountains (in India). They may have become sailors from experience in river sailing or something but don't appear to have been made up of actual sailors of the ocean.

No, the OLB has salt-atha all over the MS, and some came from the mountains, but not from the mountains in India, but from those in Greece and the Middle East (Tyre).


#4099    Abramelin

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:11 AM

View Postgestur, on 19 June 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

[/size]

I suggest you try that yourself this summer.

Saltmen of Tibet (trailer):
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=eQPIF9klVwU

I have done it myself, but not here in the Netherlands.

Seawater is water from a sea or ocean. On average, seawater in the world's oceans has a salinity of about 3.5% (35 g/L, or 599 mM). This means that every kilogram (roughly one litre by volume) of seawater has approximately 35 grams (1.2 oz) of dissolved salts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater

Evaporation may be a slow process, but when you use a wide, shallow metal bowl you can almost watch it happen when the sun is baking on your head. Cooking the sea water will speed up the process.


#4100    The Puzzler

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 June 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

No, the OLB has salt-atha all over the MS, and some came from the mountains, but not from the mountains in India, but from those in Greece and the Middle East (Tyre).
OK the mountains of their origin but either way the term doesn't have to mean sailors, cause it's translated soldiers.

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#4101    Abramelin

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 June 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

I have done it myself, but not here in the Netherlands.

Seawater is water from a sea or ocean. On average, seawater in the world's oceans has a salinity of about 3.5% (35 g/L, or 599 mM). This means that every kilogram (roughly one litre by volume) of seawater has approximately 35 grams (1.2 oz) of dissolved salts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater

Evaporation may be a slow process, but when you use a wide, shallow metal bowl you can almost watch it happen when the sun is baking on your head. Cooking the sea water will speed up the process.


It took an hour or so to cook down about 1 1/2 L of water, which produced about 1/4 cup of salt. Enough to fill a small bowl and plant on your kitchen counter to pinch from, each time taking great joy in the fact that I was eating pure salt from the ocean outside our window. I’m now making extra to bring back home and send to some of my favourite food/Tofino lovers.

http://dinnerwithjul...emade-sea-salt/


#4102    Abramelin

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 19 June 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

OK the mountains of their origin but either way the term doesn't have to mean sailors, cause it's translated soldiers.

The complete word,"salt-atha" is more of a problem for me than just the "salt" part.

The OLB made an attempt for an etymology, "friends of the salt".

Yesterday I found a site (not even sure it was in Dutch or English; I lost the link), that said something like:

Latin "soldare", to pay, and with the past participle or genitive (?) "soldata". Not sure about the spelling, but it was very close to the Dutch "soldaat".

And I found something else:

From:

Orel - A Handbook of Germanic Etymology (722 pages)

http://archive.org/d...rmanicEtymology

(click to enlarge:)

Soldier - Orel_A Handbook of Germanic Etymology.jpg


#4103    Van Gorp

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:16 AM

In OLB some quotes where Salt-atha is used:

Then he chose among all his people and soldiers those who were accustomed to the sea

   -> so not all salt-atha were accustomed to the sea

... but the soldiers who came from the mountainous countries were afraid of the sea

   -> even some salt-atha came from the mountains and were afraid of the sea ????

Friends of the salt (in reference to the sea) is then questionable as etymology.  Friends of salt-bars?
I think the meaning is 'paid to be loyal'.  Palls as long as you pay them.

How salt and sold (what you pay,be-zahlt) can be connected is interesting: salt-salary is clearly connected, only OLB hints also 'sold' in soldiers is etymologic connected with salt.
In Dutch the soldij is the pay and the pay was salt.

So not only salary but also soldij and soldier coming from salt?
Salt is tightly together after vaporizing in the salt-pans -> very solid and solidair.
Soldiers ought to be solidair also. So Latin solidus based on salt? Why not :-)

Edited by Van Gorp, 20 June 2013 - 05:24 AM.


#4104    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:01 AM

Lol, I found a lot more concerning salt as payment, but not everybody agrees:


As a precious and portable commodity, salt has long been a cornerstone of economies throughout history. In fact, researcher M.R. Bloch conjectured that civilization began along the edges of the desert because of the natural surface deposits of salt found there. Bloch also believed that the first war - likely fought near the ancient city of Essalt on the Jordan River - could have been fought over the city's precious salt supplies.

In 2200 BC, the Chinese emperor Hsia Yu levied one of the first known taxes. He taxed salt. In Tibet, Marco Polo noted that tiny cakes of salt were pressed with images of the Grand Khan and used as coins. Salt is still used as money among the nomads of Ethiopia's Danakil Plains.

Greek slave traders often bartered salt for slaves, giving rise to the expression that someone was "not worth his salt." Roman legionnaires were paid in salt - a salarium, the Latin origin of the word "salary."

Merchants in 12th-Century Timbuktu - the gateway to the Sahara Desert and the seat of scholars - valued salt as highly as books and gold.

In France, Charles of Anjou levied the "gabelle," a salt tax, in 1259 to finance his conquest of the Kingdom of Naples. Outrage over the gabelle fueled the French Revolution. Though the revolutionaries eliminated the tax shortly after Louis XIV fell, the Republic of France reestablished the gabelle in the early 19th Century; only in 1946 was it removed from the books.

The Erie Canal, an engineering marvel that connected the Great Lakes to New York's Hudson River in 1825, was called "the ditch that salt built." Salt tax revenues paid for half the cost of construction of the canal.

The British monarchy supported itself with high salt taxes, leading to a bustling black market for the white crystal. In 1785, the earl of Dundonald wrote that every year in England, 10,000 people were arrested for salt smuggling. Protesting British rule in 1930, Mahatma Gandhi led a 200-mile march to the Arabian Ocean to collect untaxed salt for India's poor.


http://uk.answers.ya...02050107AAlP7ax



( When you highlight the English word "soldier" in Sandbach's translation, you'll notice several different OLB words were being translated as "soldier". One we all know by now is "wêrar".)


sol-d-i-a 2, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Söldner; ne. mercenary; Q.: Schw, AA 164; I.: z. T. Lw. lat. solidus; E.: s. lat. solidus, M., Goldmünze; vgl. lat. solidus, Adj., gediegen, echt, im Besitz, als Vasall; vgl. idg. *solo-, *soleøo-, *soløo-, Adj., wohlbehalten, ganz, Pokorny 979

http://koeblergerhar...fries_tg_s.html


soldier (n.)
c.1300, from Old French soudier "one who serves in the army for pay," from Medieval Latin soldarius "a soldier" (cf. Italian soldato and French soldat "soldier," which is borrowed from Italian), literally "one having pay," from Late Latin soldum, from accusative of Latin solidus, a Roman gold coin (see solidus).


http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0


De soldij was en is nog altijd een soldatenloon. Er bestaat in Nederland een misverstand dat het woord - net als salaris - zou zijn afgeleid van het Latijnse woord voor 'zout' (sal), omdat de Romeinen hun legionairs soms uitbetaalden met het toen waardevolle zout. Soldij is echter afgeleid van de solidus[1], (het Latijnse woord voor solide) dat een Romeinse gouden munt was.

Translation:
The "soldij" was and still is a soldiers wage. In the Netherlands there is a misunderstanding that the word - like 'salary - 'was derived from the Latin word for "salt" (sal), because the Romans sometimes paid their legionnaires with the then valuable salt. However, "soldij" is derived from the solidus (the Latin word for solid) which was a Roman gold coin.


http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldij


Salarium

Similarly, the Roman word salarium linked employment, salt and soldiers, but the exact link is very clear. The latest common theory is that the word soldier itself comes from the Latin sal dare (to give salt), but previous theories were on the same ground. Alternatively, the Roman historian Pliny the Elder stated as an aside in his Natural History's discussion of sea water, that "n Rome. . .the soldier's pay was originally salt and the word salary derives from it...". Others note that soldier more likely derives from the gold solidus, with which soldiers were known to have been paid, and maintain instead that the salarium was either an allowance for the purchase of salt or the price of having soldiers conquer salt supplies and guard the Salt Roads (Via Salaria) that led to Rome.

http://en.wikipedia....Salary#Salarium




But now about the -atha- part.

If anything, "salt-atha" is a folk-etymology for a Latin word, and has nothing to do with any "friends of salt" or "salt friends".

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 June 2013 - 06:02 AM.


#4105    Van Gorp

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:31 AM

Ah Abe, also awake in the early morning (or still awake :-)

Yes, interesting points to notice.

About atha, i find interesting the word 'attach'.  Also in the meaning to bring toghether (made me think: solderen is also bringing together, attach to eachother).
An attachee is used also frequently in military/diplomatic meaning.  Though, don't know if these salt-atta's were always that diplomatic :-)


#4106    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:46 AM

View PostVan Gorp, on 20 June 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Ah Abe, also awake in the early morning (or still awake :-)

Yes, interesting points to notice.

About atha, i find interesting the word 'attach'.  Also in the meaning to bring toghether (made me think: solderen is also bringing together, attach to eachother).
An attachee is used also frequently in military/diplomatic meaning.  Though, don't know if these salt-atta's were always that diplomatic :-)

I only slept for a couple of hours.....

=

That looked promising, Van Gorp, but the original Old French word is "estachier" :

attach (v.)
mid-14c. (mid-13c. in Anglo-Latin), "to take or seize (property or goods) by law," a legal term, from Old French atachier (11c.), earlier estachier "to attach, fix; stake up, support" (Modern French attacher, also cf. Italian attaccare), perhaps from a- "to" + Frankish *stakon "a post, stake" or a similar Germanic word (see stake (n.)). Meaning "to fasten, affix, connect" is from c.1400.

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0


#4107    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 June 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

The complete word,"salt-atha" is more of a problem for me than just the "salt" part.

The OLB made an attempt for an etymology, "friends of the salt".

Yesterday I found a site (not even sure it was in Dutch or English; I lost the link), that said something like:

Latin "soldare", to pay, and with the past participle or genitive (?) "soldata". Not sure about the spelling, but it was very close to the Dutch "soldaat".

And I found something else:

From:

Orel - A Handbook of Germanic Etymology (722 pages)

http://archive.org/d...rmanicEtymology

(click to enlarge:)

Attachment Soldier - Orel_A Handbook of Germanic Etymology.jpg

Interesting is - the word hal (halr) is there in the Germanic book - which is also salt in Greek.

Edited by The Puzzler, 20 June 2013 - 11:35 AM.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
Flagpole Sitta - Harvey Danger

#4108    The Puzzler

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostVan Gorp, on 20 June 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

In OLB some quotes where Salt-atha is used:

Then he chose among all his people and soldiers those who were accustomed to the sea

   -> so not all salt-atha were accustomed to the sea

... but the soldiers who came from the mountainous countries were afraid of the sea

   -> even some salt-atha came from the mountains and were afraid of the sea ????

Friends of the salt (in reference to the sea) is then questionable as etymology.  Friends of salt-bars?
I think the meaning is 'paid to be loyal'.  Palls as long as you pay them.

How salt and sold (what you pay,be-zahlt) can be connected is interesting: salt-salary is clearly connected, only OLB hints also 'sold' in soldiers is etymologic connected with salt.
In Dutch the soldij is the pay and the pay was salt.

So not only salary but also soldij and soldier coming from salt?
Salt is tightly together after vaporizing in the salt-pans -> very solid and solidair.
Soldiers ought to be solidair also. So Latin solidus based on salt? Why not :-)
Yes, they were not all sailors that's for sure. I totally agree with your post. solid, soldier, salt, salary, sale, sold - and many hal words, as the Greek form.

soldij from solid (coin) is probably itself from salt - as it's also a form of payment - the salt became given in coins but the etymology of solid imo could easily be behind both. Especially with salus (health)... solid (adj.) late 14c., from Old French solide "firm, dense, compact," from Latin solidus "firm, whole, entire" (related to salvus "safe"), from PIE root *sol- "whole" (cf. Greek holos "whole," Latin salus "health;" see safe (adj.)).

workers for salt - salt oather - men who worked under oath for salt - solid (trustworthy/loyal) friends/allies - soldiers

salt is solid in structure too, when thick through, like in the salt mines - in the mountains.

Edited by The Puzzler, 20 June 2013 - 11:36 AM.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
Flagpole Sitta - Harvey Danger

#4109    Mario Dantas

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:33 PM

One should ask, which is the oldest reference, the one in the Roman or in the Frisian language?

Edited by Mario Dantas, 20 June 2013 - 03:52 PM.

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#4110    Abramelin

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 20 June 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

One should ask, which is the oldest reference, the one in the Roman or in the Frisian language?

I'd say the Roman one.

The Frisian one dates from either the 19th century (because I'm convinced it's a 19th century fake), or from the 13th century. It was a family chronicle, and several generations, spread out over some 6 centuries (up to some decades BCE) added something to the chronicle. If all they did was copy and add their own accounts, then "salt-atha" should be the original word, not the Roman one. However, if they added their own accounts, AND edited the already existing chronicle to more modern standards (and the last introductory letter was added in 1256 CE), then the Roman reference is first.

Following the OLB language, "salt-atha" can only mean "salt friends", and to me that is just a poor attempt of etymology.

For me it is obvious someone tried to give the Roman word "soldata" (or a similar spelling) an Old Frisian twist.


++++

EDIT:

If modern Spanish is anything to go by, then the original Latin/Roman word should be close to "soldado":

http://conjes.cactus...php?verb=soldar

+++

EDIT:

I think I found it:

< ital. soldāto ‘voor soldij gehuurde krijgsman’, eig. deelw. van soldāre ‘voor soldij huren’,

<ital. soldāto 'paid warrior, hired warrior, mercenary', (noun based on) past participle of soldāre or 'rent for pay'

http://www.etymologi...efwoord/soldaat

+++

EDIT:

Etimologia:

La parola soldato deriva da una parola del francese antico, essa stessa una derivazione di Solidarius, latino per indicare qualcuno che ha operato per denaro. Solidare in Latino significa "pagare" ed i soldati romani erano pagati in Solidi. L'origine comune per le parole soldato e pagamento rimane non solo in francese (soldat e solde) ma anche in altre lingue, come tedesco (soldat e sold), spagnolo (soldado e soldada) e olandese (soldaat e soldij) e inglese (soldier e sold) nel senso più ampio di venduto.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldato

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 June 2013 - 06:18 PM.