10 replies to this topic

[WilliamW]

Christian:  “It's a grown up world with harsh realities that not everyone is suited to deal with. I don't hate Muslims. But before I would live subjugated and dhimmi to such a system I would see Mecca and Medina a radioactive smoking waste.”

Jesus:  Yes, a time is coming when the one who kills you will think he is serving God.

Me: I know it is a hard thing to accept that perhaps the best thing to do is to stay out of actually taking sides in arguments remembering that it is most likely all information we have access to only gives a partial picture and thus not being fully informed we can justify not getting involved.

How does this ‘fit’ with a wonder and love of the Planet and the Human potential?  Shall I keep quiet simply because we don’t have all the information?
Of course not.   I carry on in that wonder.  I carry on supporting that Human Potential. I do what I can in my own neighborhood to contribute things which do not cause stress and unhappiness to others.  I speak as I see necessary, but not in tones of condemnation or judgement.  I simply speak from the heart and express myself truthfully.

I understand that this does not suit the agenda of some folk I might cross paths with, but I needn’t make an enemy out of someone who considers me to be an enemy and sets about to treat me as one.  That is their choice and I can understand that they are simply expressing their unhappiness and trying to transpose that onto me.  To get caught up in that syndrome is simply to accept that I am of it.  To remain as unaffected by it as I can, I express something different into its reality, and thus give it a chance to reconsider by its own choice.  In this I am not expectant or tied to any particular outcome, one way or another.  I simply remain true to my own heart.

From the information regarding Jesus, I can see that he had a similar philosophy, and even when he expressed this:

“Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.  Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?”

I can see clearly enough that this was not a normal philosophy.  It might not be a normal Christian philosophy, and truthfully just because Christians say they ‘follow’ Jesus, does not a Jesus follower make.

(As explained in an earlier post – [http://www.unexplain...c=226946&st=285] a “Christian” is someone who follows Paul’s teachings – I concede that they might not realise this and think that in following Paul, they follow Jesus – but there is ample evidence to support the fallacy of this belief system)

Q: Is Jesus attributed with giving information about this?

I don’t think of myself as a ‘follower’ of any one particular personality or philosophy.  I enjoy different points of view. I follow my ‘heart’ (Conscience) and this involves tweaking and readjusting and aligning as and when necessary.

At the moment no one is pointing a gun to my head demanding I do what they say.

However I acknowledge that I live in a system which in a less obvious way, is pointing a ‘gun’ at my head and telling me what to do at the threat of withholding my means to survive.  It has been my choice to ‘go along’ with their charade while I work out exactly what it is that bothers me about such a bullying practice.  It has to do with numbers and having been programmed to believe that I don’t deserve life really, that I am essentially ‘evil’ and unworthy of ‘Gods love’ and need to ‘prove myself worthy’ and contribute my energy and life to a world controlled by that which itself seems incapable of being worthy by its own standards.  I see the number of individuals who actually believe this story about themselves and each other is the main contributing factor as to why they then treat each other so and changes to the contrary are slow and sometimes not even evident.

However, I am here in the world for now, so will get about the task of changing that inherited attitude in myself and expressing those changes into the external world around about my physical reality.
It may not stop the gun pointed at my head from going off one day.  It may not convince the mind of the system which holds that gun to my head, the error of its beliefs, but I am not here to teach them anything.  I am here to learn for myself.  And when I have the opportunity, to share what I have discovered.

[IamsSon]

WilliamW, on 17 May 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

(As explained in an earlier post – [http://www.unexplain...c=226946&st=285] a “Christian” is someone who follows Paul’s teachings – I concede that they might not realise this and think that in following Paul, they follow Jesus – but there is ample evidence to support the fallacy of this belief system)

Please provide this evidence.

[WilliamW]

IamsSon, on 17 May 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Please provide this evidence.

Jesus:
“By this everyone will know that you are my 'disciples,' if you have love for one another.” (words attributed to Jesus)

That is the evidence that he referred to his followers as 'Disciples' and never called them 'Christians' - this term came later and did not necessarily refer to those who had 'love for one another' as indeed time has proved to show as evident.

Obviously due to other expressions attributed to Jesus the act of love crossed all boundaries - rendering  boundaries pointless.  Indeed it did not even matter that individuals knew they were even being 'disciples' but that they were following his simple teachings regarding love and expressed these into their reality towards others - even that they didn't know Jesus or had even heard his message.

Certainly while Paul used the expression frequently to describe 'someone who said they believed in and followed after Jesus' the evidence supports that from this came 'Christendom' and the evidence suggests that it is more 'a kingdom divided' and  the overall expression given to the world is not one of 'loving one another' and certainly one with dark history.

I don't say this in Judgement.  They were and still are what they are.  It is simply the truth of the matter.  That is in line with the topic of this thread.




The Irony
Edit:  If you feel that Paul and his teaching is an expression of the love Jesus spoke of and that Christendom (which can be sourced from Paul primarily) is also thus an expression of love, that is yours to believe.  Jesus spoke to people as individuals, not through organisations as congregations.  Know Love and you will understand what it is I am saying here regarding the individual.

Those 'who will know' are also those 'who are his disciples' - Love gives off a certain frequency of recognition which is absent in unloving expression.  Indeed - it matter not to Love, if something is unloving.  Love loves anyway because it is love.

Edited by WilliamW, 18 May 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[WilliamW]

I mentioned that according to the words attributed to Jesus, that he regards anyone who loves each other(s), to be his ‘disciples’ and thus collapsing the boundaries, even if those loving individuals don’t even acknowledge following him or otherwise professing any connection with him on a conscious level, Jesus himself acknowledges those to be ‘what he was referring to’ when he spoke of ‘disciples’.

This is significant in that one isn’t professing to follow Jesus by calling themselves or otherwise identifying themselves as being ‘Christian’.

They might identify themselves as ‘whatever’ or ‘nothing in particular’ it matters not, as the thing Jesus identifies is that they ‘Love’ in their life’s expression.

[WilliamW]

I have to say obviously that I have studied Paul a bit and my feeling toward him is that I love him and can see that in his own place and position he was really trying and I appreciate his efforts and expressions.

His expression regarding ‘what Love is’ is perhaps the most gifted revelation I have read on the subject.  

That is to say that for me personally as this subjective object – it was helpful information.



Love sees something ‘good’ as in ‘useful’ in every ‘villain’.

Edited by WilliamW, 18 May 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[Ufo Believer]

It's sad that people who are Christians who say they read the word of Jesus, don't care about people and hate on people who are different then they are.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Ufo Believer, on 18 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

It's sad that people who are Christians who say they read the word of Jesus, don't care about people and hate on people who are different then they are.

Agreed, and didn't Jesus just repeat the teachings of Buddha?

[J. K.]

Ufo Believer, on 18 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

It's sad that people who are Christians who say they read the word of Jesus, don't care about people and hate on people who are different then they are.

It is unfortunate that Christianity can be "faked."  It's easy to learn the language and blend in without truly believing the tenets of Christianity.  I've known people like that, and their true mission seems to be to sow discord wherever they go.

[Ufo Believer]

@J.K. - Yes, but the people who say that they are Christians and say that God is the one who told them to make sure, let's say, their son or daughter doesn't turn out gay. The extreme ones who think they know better then everybody else.

@PeacefulAnarchy - I'm not that sure. Wasn't Budda born after Jesus was on earth? From what I know of the bible, when Jesus was on Earth he took the Judaism teachings from the Torah and made them more Liberal, like for example, in the Torah, back then, I think, it stated that women can not converse with men outside the house. Jesus, in the bible, went right up to a woman and started speaking to her and asking her questions. If he was going by the teachings of the Torah back then, he wouldn't have done that because it was against religious rules. Now once again, I said I think because I'm pretty sure that was it. So, I'm sorry if I'm worng.

[J. K.]

Ufo Believer, on 18 May 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

@J.K. - Yes, but the people who say that they are Christians and say that God is the one who told them to make sure, let's say, their son or daughter doesn't turn out gay. The extreme ones who think they know better then everybody else.

Oh, definitely, there are Christians who are arrogant beyond belief.  Some have very strong controlling personalities.  I prefer not to be around those types.  They become obnoxious rather quickly.

[PeacefulAnarchy]

Ufo Believer, on 18 May 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

@J.K. - Yes, but the people who say that they are Christians and say that God is the one who told them to make sure, let's say, their son or daughter doesn't turn out gay. The extreme ones who think they know better then everybody else.

@PeacefulAnarchy - I'm not that sure. Wasn't Budda born after Jesus was on earth? From what I know of the bible, when Jesus was on Earth he took the Judaism teachings from the Torah and made them more Liberal, like for example, in the Torah, back then, I think, it stated that women can not converse with men outside the house. Jesus, in the bible, went right up to a woman and started speaking to her and asking her questions. If he was going by the teachings of the Torah back then, he wouldn't have done that because it was against religious rules. Now once again, I said I think because I'm pretty sure that was it. So, I'm sorry if I'm worng.

No Buddha was alive somewhere between 583BCE and 400BCE, it varies between historians.

There is a belief that Jesus was a scholar and the missing 18 years or so of Jesus's life were spent at the Great Library in Alexandria studying all the faiths of the world, especially Buddhism.

A lot of Jesus's teaching are the same as Buddhas, and in fact some are word for word.

Just another possibility.