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Was Vincent van Gogh Jack the Ripper ?

vincent van gogh jack the ripper serial killers true crime case solved

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#211    third_eye

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 20 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

series of paintings including Van Gogh's Chair (1888), Bedroom in Arles (1888), The Night Café (1888), Cafe Terrace at Night (September 1888), Starry Night Over the Rhone (1888), Still Life: Vase with Twelve Sunflowers (1888), all intended to form the décoration for the Yellow House.[96]

Paintings and the fact that he was already complaining about the cost of his rent, he flittered back and forth to England to commit murder once in a while!

He would sooner cut off his ear than to harm another woman, even if she was a "prostitute"
Vincent loved life, loved women or the pureness of a woman. read more about the man, he was a gentle soul. He would sooner harm himself than let harm come to others, specially the ones he loves.

One book I recommend for new readers of Vincent : Lust for life by Irving Stone or if you're not a reader, the movie with Kirk Douglas as Vincent
We know a lot about Vincents life, it is well documented
We know more about Vincents life now because it is well researched, from other documented sources.

We know Vincent, he is not Jack

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#212    Lava_Lady

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:58 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 20 February 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:



LOL in my top 3 of his books,and i have read almost all of them :tu:

Bag of Bones & Duma Key ;)

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#213    Lava_Lady

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:19 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 20 February 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:



He would sooner cut off his ear than to harm another woman, even if she was a "prostitute"
Vincent loved life, loved women or the pureness of a woman. read more about the man, he was a gentle soul. He would sooner harm himself than let harm come to others, specially the ones he loves.

One book I recommend for new readers of Vincent : Lust for life by Irving Stone or if you're not a reader, the movie with Kirk Douglas as Vincent
We know a lot about Vincents life, it is well documented
We know more about Vincents life now because it is well researched, from other documented sources.

We know Vincent, he is not Jack

I wrote a research paper  in college on serial killers and one of the characteristics that they shared was narcissism,they held themselves in the highest regard with little to  zero for their victims.  Even considering them as less than human.

These killers think they are smarter than the authorities and that is often their downfall.

I don't know much about Van Gogh but the whole cutting off the ear thing doesn't fit into the typical profile of a serial killer, they wouldn't hurt themselves they are too valuable to themselves.  At the same time, I'm eager to hear the rest of the evidence presented in the book.  It's an odd hobby/interest of mine and reading other peoples can be very insightful even if I don't agree.


I am now interested in Van Gogh, like why did he cut of his ear?  Did someone already explain that?  I'll have to go check.













"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#214    CrimsonKing

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:33 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 21 February 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Bag of Bones & Duma Key ;)

Bag of bones is another of my top 3!Though i place the shining in there instead of duma key :P lol

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#215    third_eye

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:02 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 21 February 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

I wrote a research paper  in college on serial killers and one of the characteristics that they shared was narcissism,they held themselves in the highest regard with little to  zero for their victims.  Even considering them as less than human.

These killers think they are smarter than the authorities and that is often their downfall.

I don't know much about Van Gogh but the whole cutting off the ear thing doesn't fit into the typical profile of a serial killer, they wouldn't hurt themselves they are too valuable to themselves.  At the same time, I'm eager to hear the rest of the evidence presented in the book.  It's an odd hobby/interest of mine and reading other peoples can be very insightful even if I don't agree.


I am now interested in Van Gogh, like why did he cut of his ear?  Did someone already explain that?  I'll have to go check.


Sorry Miss, your unsub profiling is too general and based on it Andy Warhol is a better fit than Vincent.
And the association of both to Jack is overwhelmingly inconsistent to timelines.
300 paintings and drawings in that span of time, not taking into consideration the studies and sketches, all dated.... all collected by Theo, we know almost to the time and date of where Vincent was during those days, we can still identify the places he painted at to this day.
MAny people look at Vincent's paintings and think he just threw and splashed and dashed out a painting quickly, he don't work that way, he studies with a keen eye, and spends a lot of time. does a lot of sketch studies preparing for a painting.
I researched Vincent's days at Arles and Saint Remy 1888-1890 for my Art History finals, We know where he was almost to the day everyday of those three years. I did that in the early nineties, these days we know even more from the letters and other historical documents of the Impressionists, newspapers of the time, historical figures like authors, theater famous people. In a word, we know a lot from the archives of the time.
I find his life story and art most inspiring.

We know Vincent far too well, he would fail as a Jack, Jack could never be Vincent

Going by the line of deductions based on amateurish profiling, if Vincent did ever killed and mutilate, he would have left the corpses in their most natural state, there wouldn't be blood splatter out of place, no unnecessary pool of blood, the corpse must be bathed in the light and he would definitely have killed in broad daylight, that is if he could have left Arles for London and back multiple times and successfully managed to both hunt, kill and escaped one hundred percent of the time without anyone in the small village of Arles knowing, or even his housemate knowing, without money. Then being able to paint and draw the best works of his life without anyone even suspecting him as a killer, according to the timeline, Vincent killed and escaped back to France within twenty four hours heavily bandaged and without a ear without his physician or Gauguin knowing ... Who is Gauguin?

Google Vincent's Bio, it a read you're never to forget anytime soon

We know Vincent, he is not Jack


~edit : wrong quoted posted
how in the world did that happen ?

Edited by third_eye, 21 February 2013 - 08:16 AM.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#216    CrimsonKing

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:13 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 21 February 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Sorry Miss, your unsub profiling is too general and based on it Andy Warhol is a better fit than Vincent.
And the association of both to Jack is overwhelmingly inconsistent to timelines.
300 paintings and drawings in that span of time, not taking into consideration the studies and sketches, all dated.... all collected by Theo, we know almost to the time and date of where Vincent was during those days, we can still identify the places he painted at to this day.
MAny people look at Vincent's paintings and think he just threw and splashed and dashed out a painting quickly, he don't work that way, he studies with a keen eye, and spends a lot of time. does a lot of sketch studies preparing for a painting.
I researched Vincent's days at Arles and Saint Remy 1888-1890 for my Art History finals, We know where he was almost to the day everyday of those three years. I did that in the early nineties, these days we know even more from the letters and other historical documents of the Impressionists, newspapers of the time, historical figures like authors, theater famous people. In a word, we know a lot from the archives of the time.
I find his life story and art most inspiring.

Anyone who thinks Van Gogh just splashed and dashed needs their heads examined,Starry Night Over the Rhone (Starry Night) is my favorite painting ever.Though i cannot explain why,when i look at the work i am just in awe.Amazing!

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#217    third_eye

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 21 February 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Anyone who thinks Van Gogh just splashed and dashed needs their heads examined,Starry Night Over the Rhone (Starry Night) is my favorite painting ever.Though i cannot explain why,when i look at the work i am just in awe.Amazing!

I like his portraits, self and not. The more you look a his portrait subjects, the more you "see" them, move ... talk ... how they are, in their daily moment to moment activities. "Not posed or produced" I guess is a good description, as opposed to the painting styles of the day, which was highly stylized and posed, much like magazines covers of today.

Instead of some super stylized postman we see most of all "a man"
A man you see most everyday, everywhere you look you see this man, they might look different on the outside but inside they're all just that man.
Same goes for his landscapes, his flowers, his people portraits, his loved and beloved.

His drawings of his woman companions he is as brutally honest as it is lovingly rendered...
Vincent is famous because of that, not because he painted funny paintings and killed himself while cutting off an ear along the way.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#218    CrimsonKing

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:54 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 21 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

I like his portraits, self and not. The more you look a his portrait subjects, the more you "see" them, move ... talk ... how they are, in their daily moment to moment activities. "Not posed or produced" I guess is a good description, as opposed to the painting styles of the day, which was highly stylized and posed, much like magazines covers of today.

Instead of some super stylized postman we see most of all "a man"
A man you see most everyday, everywhere you look you see this man, they might look different on the outside but inside they're all just that man.
Same goes for his landscapes, his flowers, his people portraits, his loved and beloved.

His drawings of his woman companions he is as brutally honest as it is lovingly rendered...
Vincent is famous because of that, not because he painted funny paintings and killed himself while cutting off an ear along the way.

You just about described the only way i can try to explain starry night,though a painting for some reason when i look at it makes me realize how tiny we really are.I get a picture in my mind of how massive what we live in really is with everything that surrounds us.This painting for some reason does a better job at this than any of hubble's real pic's do.As i said though i do not know why.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#219    third_eye

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:03 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 21 February 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

You just about described the only way i can try to explain starry night,though a painting for some reason when i look at it makes me realize how tiny we really are.I get a picture in my mind of how massive what we live in really is with everything that surrounds us.This painting for some reason does a better job at this than any of hubble's real pic's do.As i said though i do not know why.

On the contrary, you DO know why, you just do not understand why
Starry night means a lot of things to different people ... in your case would be different to someone picturing the the 'fields of gold' or the shadowy silhouette of the tree against the night sky or every other element there available in that painting, to understand you must first dance with all of them.
Then you would 'hear the painting' better

Starry Night always sing to me,
no not that Don Mc song, I hated that tune to be honest :lol:

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#220    CrimsonKing

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:13 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 21 February 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

On the contrary, you DO know why, you just do not understand why
Starry night means a lot of things to different people ... in your case would be different to someone picturing the the 'fields of gold' or the shadowy silhouette of the tree against the night sky or every other element there available in that painting, to understand you must first dance with all of them.
Then you would 'hear the painting' better

Starry Night always sing to me,
no not that Don Mc song, I hated that tune to be honest :lol:

In a way you are saying the imagination is a better tool at making us think than what is really before us?On the Don Mc song :lol:

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#221    Lava_Lady

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:50 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 21 February 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:




Sorry Miss, your unsub profiling is too general and based on it Andy Warhol is a better fit than Vincent.
And the association of both to Jack is overwhelmingly inconsistent to timelines.
300 paintings and drawings in that span of time, not taking into consideration the studies and sketches, all dated.... all collected by Theo, we know almost to the time and date of where Vincent was during those days, we can still identify the places he painted at to this day.
MAny people look at Vincent's paintings and think he just threw and splashed and dashed out a painting quickly, he don't work that way, he studies with a keen eye, and spends a lot of time. does a lot of sketch studies preparing for a painting.
I researched Vincent's days at Arles and Saint Remy 1888-1890 for my Art History finals, We know where he was almost to the day everyday of those three years. I did that in the early nineties, these days we know even more from the letters and other historical documents of the Impressionists, newspapers of the time, historical figures like authors, theater famous people. In a word, we know a lot from the archives of the time.
I find his life story and art most inspiring.

We know Vincent far too well, he would fail as a Jack, Jack could never be Vincent

Going by the line of deductions based on amateurish profiling, if Vincent did ever killed and mutilate, he would have left the corpses in their most natural state, there wouldn't be blood splatter out of place, no unnecessary pool of blood, the corpse must be bathed in the light and he would definitely have killed in broad daylight, that is if he could have left Arles for London and back multiple times and successfully managed to both hunt, kill and escaped one hundred percent of the time without anyone in the small village of Arles knowing, or even his housemate knowing, without money. Then being able to paint and draw the best works of his life without anyone even suspecting him as a killer, according to the timeline, Vincent killed and escaped back to France within twenty four hours heavily bandaged and without a ear without his physician or Gauguin knowing ... Who is Gauguin?

Google Vincent's Bio, it a read you're never to forget anytime soon

We know Vincent, he is not Jack


~edit : wrong quoted posted
how in the world did that happen ?

I'm not sure why you are arguing the case with me because I stated that IMO Van Gogh does NOT fit the profile.
I just wanted to know more about why he cut off his ear because I don't know anything about him.  Please go back and read my post again, I think you misunderstood me.





"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#222    Lava_Lady

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 21 February 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:



Bag of bones is another of my top 3!Though i place the shining in there instead of duma key :P lol

Which is #1?  Bag of Bones is my all time favorite, creepiest book ever!

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#223    CrimsonKing

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:05 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 21 February 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Which is #1?  Bag of Bones is my all time favorite, creepiest book ever!

#1 black house
#2 bag of bones
#3 the shining

Bag of bones is almost tied for my number 1,is totally different than most of his others.Instead of just built up horror it is haunting.One of the only fiction books ever that made me actually feel for the main character.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#224    third_eye

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 21 February 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

I'm not sure why you are arguing the case with me because I stated that IMO Van Gogh does NOT fit the profile.
I just wanted to know more about why he cut off his ear because I don't know anything about him.  Please go back and read my post again, I think you misunderstood me.

I was not arguing with you Lava_Lady, you misunderstood me, I was applying the profile you provided as a better fit for Warhol.
you mentioned you wanted to know more, I posted what I know about Vincent in relation to topic, there is a lot more and you simply have to read about Vincent, his bio and letters to Theo is a must.
Regarding "why" he cut off his ear you'll have to read all we know about the incident. It was not just one irrational act, a lot of things were happening the days leading up to the incident. You'll have to decide for yourself, Paul Gauguin was there and has his version of the event.
I've been reading up on Vincent since I was in my early teens, he was the reason I chose Fine Arts to tell the truth,

I apologise if I caused you some distress

~edit : laziness leaves a mess everywhere :lol:

Edited by third_eye, 21 February 2013 - 10:28 AM.

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#225    Bonecrusher

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

I've actually shifted through the evidence.
The "Lillies" picture with Mary Kelly supposedly hiding is a bit tenious.
But what happens if art is doing more than imitating life.
Who's to say the letter signed " Jack" that was sent to the police was not actually the Ripper's handiwork.
Tbh if Van Gogh had a habit of mutilating and killing prostitutes his killing ground would have been more likely to be Paris.
But the more clever criminals are not likely to choose the most obvious places.
Alas Van Gogh was poorer than a church mice.
He only got his fame and fortune posthumously.
Besides Van Gogh would look conspicuous with a ginger beard and straw boater in the fog- shrouded streets of London.
But any theory consisting of a lone person is not actually a conspiracy.
So Dale's got a legiminate reason for doing this so I wish him the best of British.

Edited by Medium Brown, 21 February 2013 - 10:36 AM.

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