89 replies to this topic

[Mr Right Wing]

Is it for real, on 29 May 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Mr right wing, what the hell are you talking about? Did you just say my country was founded on the principals of the Koran? )

I think I'll start with Thomas Jefferson seeing as he was the founding father that wrote the Declaration of Independance. So do you think the guy was a Christain or a follower if Islam? The first shock is its Islam and the second shock is that when elected he swore his oath on the Koran - http://www.slate.com...sons_quran.html

Next we'll do John Adams another founding father. When he and the others got together to decide what sort of nation they were gonna built what source material did they use? You guessed it the Koran. In fact they used John Adams own personal copy of the Koran which is today stored in the Boston Public Library - http://www.boston.co...america/?page=2 - (info on page 2).

Now hang on a minute if the founding fathers used the Koran to write the US constituition then it would be nothing like the US that exists today right? Wrong - http://blog.nj.com/d...nstitution.html - The US is in fact the only state that has built the nation of God as dictated by the Koran.

Do you like going to look at US monuments and buildings. Do you realise they are covered with Islam? -

The US is the worlds only true Islamic State and 99% of Americans dont even realise it unless they are a solicitor or politician.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 30 May 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[and then]

Stellar, on 30 May 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

[/background][/size][/font][/color]

Can you give a specific example?

Actually, no, I don't make it a habit to keep reference files on everything I read.  But neither do I make up things out of whole cloth.  I thank Michelle for giving references as these types of reports are indeed what I was thinking of when I mentioned Sharia in Europe.  I did NOT say that any European country had made Sharia the law of the land.  But if you are trying to insinuate that Sharia and the impact of Islamic tradition is no problem in Europe and GB I would refer you to a quick review of the efforts of the English Defence League.  The doco I saw on this group makes them seem a right redneck racist bunch.  I don't know how balanced the reporting is and take no stand one way or the other but such groups have to have a catalyst to make them start and a "chronic irritant" to keep them motivated.  I am NOT advocating such groups anywhere.  I just use them as an example of discontent in GB and Europe over the enclaves of Islamism that refuse to assimilate into their host countries.  Sharia is just the most visible aspect of them holding on to a separate identity.  Kansas is just saying in advance....we don't want any..thank you!

[Stellar]

I don't see any reason for a culture to "assimilate" into another though. If they want to practice their own customs, have at 'er, as long as it doesn't break the law of the land.

[Michelle]

Stellar, on 30 May 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

I don't see any reason for a culture to "assimilate" into another though. If they want to practice their own customs, have at 'er, as long as it doesn't break the law of the land.

As long as they are fully informed of their options. They often are not when going to legal council that specializes in Sharia law.

[F3SS]

Mr Right Wing, on 30 May 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

I think I'll start with Thomas Jefferson seeing as he was the founding father that wrote the Declaration of Independance. So do you think the guy was a Christain or a follower if Islam? The first shock is its Islam and the second shock is that when elected he swore his oath on the Koran - http://www.slate.com...sons_quran.html

Next we'll do John Adams another founding father. When he and the others got together to decide what sort of nation they were gonna built what source material did they use? You guessed it the Koran. In fact they used John Adams own personal copy of the Koran which is today stored in the Boston Public Library - http://www.boston.co...america/?page=2 - (info on page 2).

Now hang on a minute if the founding fathers used the Koran to write the US constituition then it would be nothing like the US that exists today right? Wrong - http://blog.nj.com/d...nstitution.html - The US is in fact the only state that has built the nation of God as dictated by the Koran.

Do you like going to look at US monuments and buildings. Do you realise they are covered with Islam? -

The US is the worlds only true Islamic State and 99% of Americans dont even realise it unless they are a solicitor or politician.

Alright man. Same as I said before. The constitution is in no way BASED off of the Koran. There may be some ideas in each that are generally similar, possibly I guess. That doesn't mean based though. These founding fathers were smart, learned and worldy men interested in acquiring knowledge.
As for monuments being "covered" in Islam, all that video shows is a couple examples. My best assumption to those images is that they represent a nation accepting of all religions. if the USA were a true Islamic state, from the beginning, why in the world wouldnt alQueda and the like propagandize the hell out of that? I know I would if I were them. This country would be inflamed to hear that we were founded by Islamic principles and that's something the enemy would like to see.

I've been given several sources to this idea so far and neither has showed anything showing a serious collusion between our constitution and the Koran. Only thing I've found out for sure is that a couple founding fathers probably bought and read a copy of the koran but I highly doubt they were bowing to Mecca or at the least very much influenced by it.

[Leonardo]

Michelle, on 30 May 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

I have too many immigrant friends, that are or were ignorant of their rights when they came here, for me to agree with this. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

It's the civilised thing to do when at an impasse. Perhaps the Kansas Governor could learn from us, in this respect. Eh, Michelle?

Edited by Leonardo, 31 May 2012 - 08:00 AM.

[Mr Right Wing]

Is it for real, on 30 May 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Alright man. Same as I said before. The constitution is in no way BASED off of the Koran. There may be some ideas in each that are generally similar, possibly I guess. That doesn't mean based though. These founding fathers were smart, learned and worldy men interested in acquiring knowledge.
As for monuments being "covered" in Islam, all that video shows is a couple examples. My best assumption to those images is that they represent a nation accepting of all religions. if the USA were a true Islamic state, from the beginning, why in the world wouldnt alQueda and the like propagandize the hell out of that? I know I would if I were them. This country would be inflamed to hear that we were founded by Islamic principles and that's something the enemy would like to see.

I've been given several sources to this idea so far and neither has showed anything showing a serious collusion between our constitution and the Koran. Only thing I've found out for sure is that a couple founding fathers probably bought and read a copy of the koran but I highly doubt they were bowing to Mecca or at the least very much influenced by it.

What you expect Islam to be about is why you disagree.

Quite of a lot of the Founding Fathers were freemasons and freemasonary is the idea that all religions are the worship of the same God. If you joined you are allowed to be from any faith. However during the process of you working up the degrees you reach the point at the 33rd degree where you have to swear your oath on the Koran. The reason being is the Koran hasnt had its texts corrupted like other religions such as the Bible so they work towards the point where you realise only the Koran is Gods word.

When they wrote the US Constituition they wanted to accurately build Gods nation so they used the Koran not the Bible. The Koran states that Gods nation is about freedom, human rights, equality, etc. It isnt the nonsense you see going on with the Taliban or in other Muslim states. The koran does not teach violance or terrorism or surpressing women. The Muslim factions that do these things have distorted the texts in the Koran.

Many aspects of US law come from the koran. Ask an accountant or solicitor.

[Michelle]

Leonardo, on 31 May 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

It's the civilised thing to do when at an impasse. Perhaps the Kansas Governor could learn from us, in this respect. Eh, Michelle?

He certainly could, dear.

[Babe Ruth]

That is interesting information about the influence of the Koran on the founding fathers.

I know that the word Mohametan, or something like that, was used several times in The Federalist Papers.

The point is, we have a secular state in which any person can practice any religion he wishes, or practice no religion at all.

[Mr Right Wing]

Babe Ruth, on 31 May 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

That is interesting information about the influence of the Koran on the founding fathers.

I know that the word Mohametan, or something like that, was used several times in The Federalist Papers.

The point is, we have a secular state in which any person can practice any religion he wishes, or practice no religion at all.

Where as Amercians do have religious freedom thats not what I'm going on about.

US is a theocracy without people realising. Yes, Americans vote for leaders in Democratic elections but the foundations of the state and many aspects of law come from religion. The Koran says Gods nation is about freedom, equality, equal rights and so on and thats exactly the nation they've built. The fact they used the Koran for the blueprints instead of the Bible doesnt violate religious freedom. They simply used the most accurate version of Gods texts.

[F3SS]

Mr right wing,
I get all you're saying. I still wonder why our Islamic enemies don't use this as propaganda. One of them must know of this. Not that I want them to[propagandize], btw.

[Wickian]

Mr Right Wing, on 31 May 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Where as Amercians do have religious freedom thats not what I'm going on about.

US is a theocracy without people realising. Yes, Americans vote for leaders in Democratic elections but the foundations of the state and many aspects of law come from religion. The Koran says Gods nation is about freedom, equality, equal rights and so on and thats exactly the nation they've built. The fact they used the Koran for the blueprints instead of the Bible doesnt violate religious freedom. They simply used the most accurate version of Gods texts.

I disagree that that means our country is based on Islam.  The Koran in no way had a monopoly on the concept of freedom, equality and so on.  A good idea is a good idea, and being well read in the way of religion(at the time since more have sprung up since then) doesn't mean they based our country on one.

Could they have gotten that idea after reading the Koran?  Maybe.

Could they have gotten that idea simply because they liked the concept and thought of it themselves?  Maybe.

Considering that they specifically designed the government to be separate from religion, I would have to say it's unlikely that they based the government on religious teachings and more likely religious teachings(but not religious practice mind you since the two seem to differ quite often) sometimes coincided with their beliefs.

[willowdreams]

You know, here is my attitude on it.

In the areas where Sharia law is 'the law', the countries.. do they have imped in their legal system something which will 'cater' to those who are not followers of Sharia law/Muslim faith?

Seriously, when we visit their countries are we expected to abide by their countries customs and laws and if we break laws are we then expected to be punished by their laws according to their laws? Or do they make allowances for us because of 1. where we are from and perhaps not understanding all their laws and 2. we are not muslim and their ways are strange to us as we do not lvie them where we come from?

If they do not bend for each and every one of us without our government coming in to rescue us, then we should not bend either.

If they come to our country for whatever reason, business or visitation/vacation then they should abide by our customs and laws and suffer the consequence when breaking our laws.

At least, until governt agencies step in and take said person out of our country and puts them back in their own, as I am sure our governmnt does for us when we are in their country *yea, i know, whoop de loo on you if you are not rich and/or important*

anyways, you get my drift here.

of course someone else probably said what i just said or near enough, but I did not see it.

sorry.

[Farmer77]

Mr Right Wing, on 31 May 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

What you expect Islam to be about is why you disagree.

Quite of a lot of the Founding Fathers were freemasons and freemasonary is the idea that all religions are the worship of the same God. If you joined you are allowed to be from any faith. However during the process of you working up the degrees you reach the point at the 33rd degree where you have to swear your oath on the Koran. The reason being is the Koran hasnt had its texts corrupted like other religions such as the Bible so they work towards the point where you realise only the Koran is Gods word.

When they wrote the US Constituition they wanted to accurately build Gods nation so they used the Koran not the Bible. The Koran states that Gods nation is about freedom, human rights, equality, etc. It isnt the nonsense you see going on with the Taliban or in other Muslim states. The koran does not teach violance or terrorism or surpressing women. The Muslim factions that do these things have distorted the texts in the Koran.

Many aspects of US law come from the koran. Ask an accountant or solicitor.

You speak pretty strongly about the inner workings of the freemasons. Care to post any references?

[modo75]

This is the United States. We have seperation of church an state. If someone wants to practice sharia law ,or any other islamic law then they should move to a country that practices it