100 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

Beckys_Mom, on 11 June 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Every word of what you have posted is correct and in perfect order...

LOL My hastily scribbled definition of divinity?    Are you serious?   You can't handle the encyclopedia?   Do you need to go over this with the dictionary too?   I'll use the dictionary next.    That we're more agreeable to personal attacks than the apparently difficult task of acknowledging definitions in our reference material is noted.  The dictionary tells you what the definitions are, you do not tell the dictionary.

[Beckys_Mom]

Yamato, on 11 June 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

LOL My hastily scribbled definition of divinity? Are you serious?   You can't handle the encyclopedia?   Do you need to go over this with the dictionary too?   I'll use the dictionary next. That we're more agreeable to personal attacks than the apparently difficult task of acknowledging definitions in our reference material is noted.  The dictionary tells you what the definitions are, you do not tell the dictionary.

Now please calm yourself down.. you are trying to pick a fight with a few on here for no real reason...  I will not ever answer to anyone  over a post I agreed with and  for clicking like.. That is just plain absurd... And please stop looking all of this to go your way..that too is just plain madness

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 11 June 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Yamato]

Beckys_Mom, on 11 June 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Now please calm yourself down.. you are trying to pick a fight with a few on here for no real reason...  I will not ever answer to anyone  over a post I agreed with and  for clicking like.. That is just plain absurd... And please stop looking all of this to go your way..that too is just plain madness

What's madness is someone trying to deny that a green apple is green because there are other shades of green that don't match the green apple.  If the encyclopedia provides the definition that I use before someone tries to deny a definitive statement I make, it's "going my way" by definition.

Jesus is from God in Islam.  He is a righteous messenger of God.  He ascended directly into Heaven.  You can't believe that and not believe that Jesus is divine.because it's divine by definition.   Please use the encyclopedia and the correct definition I've already provided.  There's nothing "hastily scribbled" about it but your desire to start trouble.

[Knight Of Shadows]

John 20:17
"Don't cling to me," Jesus said, "for I haven't yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
ohh what you know ... even in the bible jesus saying he's ascending to the father " god "

take it easy yamato .. it's not worth it

[Yamato]

Knight Of Shadows, on 11 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

John 20:17
"Don't cling to me," Jesus said, "for I haven't yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
ohh what you know ... even in the bible jesus saying he's ascending to the father " god "

take it easy yamato .. it's not worth it

Okay my friend.  I will.

[rimbaudelaire]

Yamato: I hope you realize that Lesley Hazleton is an author stumping her new book and not some kind of Beacon of Light-Bearing-Tolerance towards Muslims. As for the "Agnostic Jew" thing... lots of Jews are Agnostics (born of a Jewish mother but don't observe Judaism). Seriously, only the ignorant and uneducated would burn Korans thinking it would have some significance.

[Yamato]

rimbaudelaire, on 11 June 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Seriously, only the ignorant and uneducated would burn Korans thinking it would have some significance.

Or those shamelessly out to promote themselves, like Pastor Terry Jones has.   He was out front of the White House just the other day in fact, preaching away into the megaphone just like Jeezus would want him to.

There's nothing inherently wrong with promotion, and I happen to like books very, very much.   Promotion is as good or bad as what's being promoted.   Hazleton is obviously intelligent, relatively unbiased by her religious views, and is giving us a subjective yet academic assessment of Islam's holy book.   If a lot of Jews are Agnostics I see no reason why that should change my mind whatsoever.   Rhetorically, "agnostic Jew" is more information than either agnostic or Jew used singularly and it was sufficient to allow me to give the video a look.  That was a subjective act as well, no doubt.  

[hetrodoxly]

Yamato, on 11 June 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

LOL My hastily scribbled definition of divinity? Are you serious?   You can't handle the encyclopedia?   Do you need to go over this with the dictionary too?   I'll use the dictionary next. That we're more agreeable to personal attacks than the apparently difficult task of acknowledging definitions in our reference material is noted.  The dictionary tells you what the definitions are, you do not tell the dictionary.

"Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity"
http://en.wikipedia..../Jesus_in_Islam

At first i thought you were just nit-picking, but the real problem though you claim to be a Catholic is you know nothing of the bible and have even less knowledge of the Quran, i suggest you read it before telling others about it's wonders.

[hetrodoxly]

Yamato, on 11 June 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Or those shamelessly out to promote themselves, like Pastor Terry Jones has.   He was out front of the White House just the other day in fact, preaching away into the megaphone just like Jeezus would want him to.

There's nothing inherently wrong with promotion, and I happen to like books very, very much.   Promotion is as good or bad as what's being promoted.   Hazleton is obviously intelligent, relatively unbiased by her religious views, and is giving us a subjective yet academic assessment of Islam's holy book.   If a lot of Jews are Agnostics I see no reason why that should change my mind whatsoever.   Rhetorically, "agnostic Jew" is more information than either agnostic or Jew used singularly and it was sufficient to allow me to give the video a look.  That was a subjective act as well, no doubt.  

This gets tedious, Arabic speaking scholars who've spent a lifetime studying the Quran can't agree on interpretation, it's absolutely ridiculous and an insult to the aforementioned that this woman  who spent just 3 months with an Arabic phrase book is of any significance at all.

[hetrodoxly]

Knight Of Shadows, on 11 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

John 20:17
"Don't cling to me," Jesus said, "for I haven't yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
ohh what you know ... even in the bible jesus saying he's ascending to the father " god "

take it easy yamato .. it's not worth it

Tell the truth Knight, do you think a none Arabic speaking person who spends "three whole months" with the Quran and a Arabic phrase book is qualified to lecture others?

[Knight Of Shadows]

hetrodoxly, on 11 June 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Tell the truth Knight, do you think a none Arabic speaking person who spends "three whole months" with the Quran and a Arabic phrase book is qualified to lecture others?

well first of all there seem to be members who ignorant and just enter various topics to cause problems
then try to laugh their way out of the topic thinking they look mature while eventally they look like troubled childrens
who keep trolling and bating am not naming any though don't ask me could be anyone and could be me

however as to arabic i think even arabs cannot lecture about arabic as to the depth of that language
only arabic language experts can really lecture people regarding the original arabic
now that being said i also agree with yamato to why jesus is considered holy in islam .. he is holy

let be explain and bear with me
in islam prophets " all prophets " are not the same as ordinary people they are considered holy
of course it's absloutly forbidden to worship them or consider one of them to be a god
but all prophets are holy and part of the faith .. believeing in them is part of islam
hating and disliking or denying any of the prophets is fobidden
and swearing or cursing on jesus or any other prophet is considered blasphemy in islam
so you see why they're considered holy ?
also all prophets is islam were right and they cannot do something wrong " unlike ordinary people we do both right and wrong "
but prophets actions were all right and good none of them had done evil or bad deeds
the attitibutes of prophets in islam is different from ordinary people so they are considered holy
divine .. i don't know am not english expert but i can surely and safely say that they are " holy " in islam

things considered holy in islam : Allah " God " , Koran , Prophets " the ones we know their names "
Angels " also only the ones names are mentioned " " Kabba " , " Mosques "

so prophets ARE humans .. but they are still considered Holy in islam
they were also preserved from being wrong .. so they are never wrong
that's very different from normal people
but they are " holy " to extend but not on any level they'd be considered as gods or worshipped

[hetrodoxly]

Knight Of Shadows, on 11 June 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

well first of all there seem to be members who ignorant and just enter various topics to cause problems
then try to laugh their way out of the topic thinking they look mature while eventally they look like troubled childrens
who keep trolling and bating am not naming any though don't ask me could be anyone and could be me

however as to arabic i think even arabs cannot lecture about arabic as to the depth of that language
only arabic language experts can really lecture people regarding the original arabic
now that being said i also agree with yamato to why jesus is considered holy in islam .. he is holy

let be explain and bear with me
in islam prophets " all prophets " are not the same as ordinary people they are considered holy
of course it's absloutly forbidden to worship them or consider one of them to be a god
but all prophets are holy and part of the faith .. believeing in them is part of islam
hating and disliking or denying any of the prophets is fobidden
and swearing or cursing on jesus or any other prophet is considered blasphemy in islam
so you see why they're considered holy ?
also all prophets is islam were right and they cannot do something wrong " unlike ordinary people we do both right and wrong "
but prophets actions were all right and good none of them had done evil or bad deeds
the attitibutes of prophets in islam is different from ordinary people so they are considered holy
divine .. i don't know am not english expert but i can surely and safely say that they are " holy " in islam

things considered holy in islam : Allah " God " , Koran , Prophets " the ones we know their names "
Angels " also only the ones names are mentioned " " Kabba " , " Mosques "

so prophets ARE humans .. but they are still considered Holy in islam
they were also preserved from being wrong .. so they are never wrong
that's very different from normal people
but they are " holy " to extend but not on any level they'd be considered as gods or worshipped

My local Imam and priest are considered holy men, but that's not what were discussing and might i say a red-herring, i don't think people are trolling i think the nature of the video is the cause for some of the replies and Yamato's response.

[Knight Of Shadows]

your priest is holy to you .maybe i don't know . but our Imam or your imam any imams is not holy to us
i said it before they're mere human .. even men of faith such as priests and imams are not holy to us
they are ordianry people they can be both wrong and right ..  they do both wrong and right
even the prophet mohammad's fellowships  like 'abo bakker " or " omar ibn alkhattab "
they are not considered holy .. we respect them but they're not holy like " mohamad " or jesus or other prophets

[hetrodoxly]

Knight Of Shadows, on 11 June 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

your priest is holy to you .maybe i don't know . but our Imam or your imam any imams is not holy to us
i said it before they're mere human .. even men of faith such as priests and imams are not holy to us
they are ordianry people they can be both wrong and right ..  they do both wrong and right
even the prophet mohammad's fellowships  like 'abo bakker " or " omar ibn alkhattab "
they are not considered holy .. we respect them but they're not holy like " mohamad " or jesus or other prophets

I think it's the interpretation of the word, many things in the Christian world are holy, water etc and all men of god ( no mater the religion) are holy men, this still isn't the debate, Muslims say Jesus was just a man he was taken straight to heaven (not under his own steam) by Allah, he's had no union with God, ie he was just a prophet and not even the last one, this goes against all Christian beliefs, the debate went at this tangent when Yamato claimed to be a Catholic but was wiling to just throw it all aside and accept Jesus wasn't the son of god, didn't die on the cross and there was no resurrection on the strength of this irrelevant video and not having read the Quran himself, if he'd just said "i'm a wannabee" Muslim the thread wouldn't have gone this far.

[Knight Of Shadows]

hetrodoxly, on 11 June 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

I think it's the interpretation of the word, many things in the Christian world are holy, water etc and all men of god ( no mater the religion) are holy men, this still isn't the debate, Muslims say Jesus was just a man he was taken straight to heaven (not under his own steam) by Allah, he's had no union with God, ie he was just a prophet and not even the last one, this goes against all Christian beliefs, the debate went at this tangent when Yamato claimed to be a Catholic but was wiling to just throw it all aside and accept Jesus wasn't the son of god, didn't die on the cross and there was no resurrection on the strength of this irrelevant video and not having read the Quran himself, if he'd just said "i'm a wannabee" Muslim the thread wouldn't have gone this far.

i wouldn't call it against all christians belief in the bible of christians jesus on many accounts admits being sent by god
and being prophet of god .. and deny divnitiy or being a god .. and admit being inferior to god and admits the superiorty of the father " god "
i've discussed that with christians on topic called the holy trinity with no result as to anything is brought does not erase the fact
that within the bible there's lines of cases mentioned above .. and they are many versus not one or two or 3
so in case christians still follow the bible as they used to .. saying jesus is a just a normal human prophet and not a god
does not go against " all " christians beliefs based on the bible it self and not my own opinion
as to versus to prove this claim .. i'll post them if you want to am not sure if it's necessary coz the lines are within the bible
no one can deny them .. so let me know if you want me to post them