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Tantalising Testimony


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#3451    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 13 October 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Yes Sagan new a lot more.
I had a friend years ago who spent some time working with him and he claimed that Sagan's personal belief and knowledge was different from what he portrayed publicly because he was funded heavily by acedemia...that's the case for many scientists. That is Universities and private/government research groups etc.  Since his views were widely accepted by the public, he had to be damn careful what he said or he could lose his funding by losing his credibility.  To be on the safe side he took the firm stance of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
Some have claimed over the years that this made him a paid disinformationist.  Not at all true.  He was a scientist trying to earn a living and had to protect his income.
By saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof", he was indirectly inferring ...."go get the proof, it's out there somewhere".
His great novel "Contact" details a scenerio in which we make contact via interdimensional means.  Although it was published as fiction, it wasn't far off from Sagan's beliefs.
I wish he'd have been a bit clearer, if he did. I never really got what the ending of Contact was all about. Did they meet the Aliens or not?

Edited by 747400, 13 October 2012 - 07:22 PM.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#3452    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:24 PM

Incidentally, I see you've got the festive seasonal avatar up again already, Boon. It always makes me feel all warm & cozy when i see that ol' noose swinging in the snow.  :santa:

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#3453    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:28 PM

View Post747400, on 13 October 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I wish he'd have been a bit clearer, if he did. I never really got what the ending of Contact was all about. Did they meet the Aliens or not?

I bet you they did, more than once, but maybe not exactly the way the movies have portrayed it.


#3454    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:48 PM

Bizarre Craft Hit Soldiers With Debilitating Light Beam
Courtesy John Timmerman, J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies

Courtesy CNI News
This text is an edited transcript of an interview between Mr. Francis P. Wall, a private first class (PFC) in the U.S. Army during the Korean War, and John Timmerman, an associate of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) in Chicago, Illinois. The interview took place in January, 1987. Noted UFO researcher Richard F. Haines checked military records and found Mr. Wall listed as a Korean combatant in the infantry unit he names below. Haines also requested and received from Mr. Wall a drawing of the aerial object he claims to have seen. The drawing depicts a very typical "flying saucer." CNI News thanks John Timmerman for permission to reprint this text. Mr. Wall recounts his experience as follows:

"This event that I am about to relate to you is the truth, so help me God. It happened in the early Spring of 1951 in Korea. We were in the Army infantry, 25th Division, 27th Regiment, 2nd Battalion, 'Easy' Company. We were in what is known on the military maps as the Iron Triangle, near Chorwon.

"It is night. We are located on the slopes of a mountain, below [which] there is a Korean village. Previously we have sent our men into this village to warn the populace that we are going to bombard it with artillery. On this night, we were doing just that. We had aerial artillery bursts coming in.

"We suddenly noticed on our right-hand side what appeared to be a jack-o-lantern come wafting down across the mountain. And at first no one thought anything about it. So we noticed that this thing continued on down to the village to where, indeed, the artillery air bursts were exploding. It had an orange glow in the beginning. We further noticed that this object was [so] quick that it could get into the center of an airburst of artillery and yet remain unharmed.   

"[The] time element on this, I would say, [was] anywhere from, oh, forty-five minutes to an hour all told.   

"But then this object approached us. And it turned a blue-green brilliant light. It's hard to distinguish the size of it; there's no way to compare it. The light was pulsating. This object approached us.

"I asked for and received permission from Lt. Evans, our company commander at that time, to fire upon this object, which I did with an M-1 rifle with armor-piercing bullets. And I did hit it. It must have been metallic because you could hear when the projectile slammed into it.

"Now why would that bullet damage this craft if the artillery rounds didn't? I don't know, unless they had dropped their protective field around them, or whatever. But the object went wild, and the light was going on and off. It went off completely once, briefly. And it was moving erratically from side to side as though it might crash to the ground. Then, a sound -- we had heard no sound previous to this -- the sound of, like, diesel locomotives revving up. That's the way this thing sounded.

"And then, we were attacked. We were swept by some form of a ray that was emitted in pulses, in waves that you could visually see only when it was aiming directly at you. That is to say, like a searchlight sweeps around and... you would see it coming at you. Now you would feel a burning, tingling sensation all over your body, as though something were penetrating you.

"So the company commander, Lt. Evans, hauled us into our bunkers. We didn't know what was going to happen. We were scared. These are underground dugouts where you have peep holes to look out to fire at the enemy. So, I'm in my bunker with another man. We're peeping out at this thing. It hovered over us for a while, lit up the whole area with its light, and then I saw it shoot off at a 45 degree angle, that quick, just there and gone. That quick. And it was as though that was the end of it.

"But, three days later the entire company of men had to be evacuated by ambulance. They had to cut roads in there and haul them out. They were too weak to walk. They had dysentery. Then subsequently, when the doctors did see them, they had an extremely high white blood cell count which the doctors could not account for.

"Now in the military, especially the Army, each day you file a company report. We had a confab about that. Do we file it in the report or not? And the consensus was 'No.' Because they'd lock every one of us up and think we were crazy. At that time, no such thing as a UFO had ever been heard of, and we didn't know what it was.

"I still don't know what it was. But I do know that since that time I have periods of disorientation, memory loss, and I dropped from 180 pounds to 138 pounds after I got back to this country. And I've had great difficulty keeping my weight up. Indeed, I'm retired and disabled today."  

http://www.nicap.org/springkor.htm

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 13 October 2012 - 07:51 PM.


#3455    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:56 PM

View Postsynchronomy, on 13 October 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Yes Sagan new a lot more.
I had a friend years ago who spent some time working with him and he claimed that Sagan's personal belief and knowledge was different from what he portrayed publicly because he was funded heavily by acedemia...that's the case for many scientists. That is Universities and private/government research groups etc.  Since his views were widely accepted by the public, he had to be damn careful what he said or he could lose his funding by losing his credibility.  To be on the safe side he took the firm stance of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
Some have claimed over the years that this made him a paid disinformationist.  Not at all true.  He was a scientist trying to earn a living and had to protect his income.
By saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof", he was indirectly inferring ...."go get the proof, it's out there somewhere".
His great novel "Contact" details a scenerio in which we make contact via interdimensional means.  Although it was published as fiction, it wasn't far off from Sagan's beliefs.
I could see that I mean a man of Carl Sagans intellect cannot possibly believe theres no other life in the universe.

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#3456    Lilly

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:27 PM

View Post747400, on 13 October 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

I wish he'd have been a bit clearer, if he did. I never really got what the ending of Contact was all about. Did they meet the Aliens or not?

Well, Dr. Arroway did, but it was a subjective experience so she didn't have direct evidence... until she discovered the mathematical formula regarding pi.

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#3457    booNyzarC

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

View Post747400, on 13 October 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Incidentally, I see you've got the festive seasonal avatar up again already, Boon. It always makes me feel all warm & cozy when i see that ol' noose swinging in the snow.  :santa:

Thanks for that 747, and I'm very happy to hear that it gives you a warm and cozy feeling.  :)

Right now it is merely a winter scene, and a bit ahead of schedule actually considering that it is only autumn here.  Perhaps next year I'll come up with something more appropriate, like leaves blowing by, but I have a Christmas version too which will show up in December.  :D

The things which entertain me and occupy my time...  silly really in the grand scheme of things, but I do rather enjoy playing around with images like these.  :blush:

Cheers.


Edit to change a repetitive word...  It is a pet peeve of mine, but very often I'm so often guilty of it.  <--  see what I did there?

Edited by booNyzarC, 13 October 2012 - 11:14 PM.


#3458    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:49 AM

View PostLilly, on 13 October 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Well, Dr. Arroway did, but it was a subjective experience so she didn't have direct evidence... until she discovered the mathematical formula regarding pi.
yes, i never really got that bit. Perhaps we should put *Spoiler* for anyone who hasn't read it, but it seemed as if she and her team came into contact with an extraterrestrial intelligence, but never actually met any Aliens, which i was a bit disappointed by. :(

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#3459    booNyzarC

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:18 PM

View Post1963, on 12 October 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

What do you make of the video Boony?...Do you think that it could be an example of that 'atmospheric-plasma' that we discussed?
Or could this film be something just as simple as a reflection on a glass window from behind the cameraman?

I must say that the account of the sighting/filming given by Tim and his daughter Brandy, sounds sincere enough....but the 'object' in the clip itself doesn't seem quite real to me. And the smaller 'orbs' [as someone described them] look like a couple of pigeons darting around the scene in my opinion....But then as always,..I could be way off the mark!...what do you think ?

Cheers buddy.

Hiya 1963, yes it is quite interesting.  I'm not sure what to make of it to be honest.  If it is some kind of plasma, I'd say it is probably quite large and appears to have remained visible for a significant amount of time.  The one thing that bothers me about this particular video is that it ends rather abruptly instead of continuing to film the object for the entire duration it was visible.  I haven't looked into any possible explanation for this apparent discrepancy, possibly the battery died in the camera?

As for the 'orbs' I suppose they could be birds, but we'll probably never know.  As is the case with these kinds of things they often raise more questions than answers.


#3460    zoser

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

UFO Disclosure in Russia.  Not sure when this was aired, but it looks fairly recent and contains testimonies from Russian Generals and Cosmonauts.  A little heavy going at the beginning but then follow some excellent testimonies.



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#3461    1963

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:26 PM

View Postzoser, on 13 October 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

You mean he hoaxed it?  He was outside looking at the the thing with his daughter!  What do you classify as real when looking at UFO footage?  Please clarify.

Hi Zoser!

In reply to your question...I mean that yes "He Could" have hoaxed it!...But I did not mean that "He Definitely" hoaxed it!...Who knows?..certainly not me!..or you for that matter!...How on earth would you be able to swear that the guy was outside when he filmed the thing?...Your just taking his word for it!
And I already said that the guy sounded like a pretty sincere sort of chap...but then, i've been proven wrong about that kind of assumption before! [on several occasions in fact] ...And as I said to Boony,..it may just be in my imagination...but something is in the back of my mind telling me that there's something just not quite right with the video?...And it being a light reflection filmed either deliberately or by accident, seems to be a reasonable determination to my mind. :tu:

...And just for clarification Zoser,... I only look at this type of video in hopes that I may someday come across an unmistakable example of an ETV!...UFO's are not really of much interest to me buddy, and I have found that 'very few' of the myriad of UFO videos that I would classify as possible ETV's...And  to this end the Nick Mariana footage from 1950 is still my personal favourite possible ETV video....




http://www.nicap.org/mariana.htm


Cheers buddy.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
...I found the Smoking Gun at last!!!!!!!!.....https://www.youtube....h?v=fGKOcuANNQo

#3462    1963

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:38 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 14 October 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Hiya 1963, yes it is quite interesting.  I'm not sure what to make of it to be honest.  If it is some kind of plasma, I'd say it is probably quite large and appears to have remained visible for a significant amount of time.  The one thing that bothers me about this particular video is that it ends rather abruptly instead of continuing to film the object for the entire duration it was visible.  I haven't looked into any possible explanation for this apparent discrepancy, possibly the battery died in the camera?

As for the 'orbs' I suppose they could be birds, but we'll probably never know.  As is the case with these kinds of things they often raise more questions than answers.


Yep..I know what you mean Boony!...it always frustrates me when we don't get to see the 'whole picture' by a video ending prematurely!..and we are left to guess how the alleged  'encounter' ended! <_<

I found this longer video that is entitled "The Whole Footage", that also shows a seemingly duplicate UFO filmed in Mexico in 2009...but still...neither one shows how the 'UFO sighting' actually ended!!... :no:





[...can't help thinking that both of these videos were filmed behind glass though?]


Cheers buddy.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
...I found the Smoking Gun at last!!!!!!!!.....https://www.youtube....h?v=fGKOcuANNQo

#3463    synchronomy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:46 AM

View Post1963, on 14 October 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Yep..I know what you mean Boony!...it always frustrates me when we don't get to see the 'whole picture' by a video ending prematurely!..and we are left to guess how the alleged  'encounter' ended! <_<

I found this longer video that is entitled "The Whole Footage", that also shows a seemingly duplicate UFO filmed in Mexico in 2009...but still...neither one shows how the 'UFO sighting' actually ended!!... :no:
[...can't help thinking that both of these videos were filmed behind glass though?]


Cheers buddy.

That's interesting.  It's a bizarre sighting.
But I got a blistering headache from that horrifying devil music...lol

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#3464    synchronomy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:01 AM

View Postzoser, on 14 October 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

UFO Disclosure in Russia.  Not sure when this was aired, but it looks fairly recent and contains testimonies from Russian Generals and Cosmonauts.  A little heavy going at the beginning but then follow some excellent testimonies.


I just watched that and found it a major disappointment.  I nearly stopped it when the guy near the beginning starts going on about this quest for disclosure he's been sent on by the Holy Virgin.
There's a few grainy and fuzzy shots of UFO's.  Very unscientific.
I shut it off when the guy around 33 minutes starts explaining how the ET's figure into the spiritual hierarchy and that beings "higher" than the ET's are here on Earth.
It all sounded at bit Sheldan Nidle"ish" to me when they start equating ET's to spirituality.
No offence, but I'd give this production a big zero on the credibility scale.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#3465    bmk1245

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:51 AM

View Postzoser, on 13 October 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

And what about the others?
Its just one hypothesis of the few. Maybe Yu. Krivonischenko had something that contaminated parts of the clothes of others. Who knows...
There is the problem with all this radioactivity hype: radioactive were only three things (clothes) out of 10 belonging to two persons (out of 4 tested) - A.Kolevatov (who, btw, was dealing with radioactive materials as well) and L.Dubinina. So, another hypothesis is (link in russian) that clothes (parts of them) were contaminated from the soil/dirt in the area (near the river) where bodies were found.

Edit to add: biosamples (samples from bodies) did not showed any sign of radioactivity.

Edited by bmk1245, 15 October 2012 - 08:55 AM.

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