Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 12 votes

Tantalising Testimony


  • Please log in to reply
5542 replies to this topic

#4726    seeder

seeder

    Nut Cracker

  • Member
  • 10,246 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK. There if you need me

  • Never forget that only the weak fish swim with the stream, and a lie travels half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.

Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:08 PM

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Diverting the issue with another video doesn't work seeder.

I repeat there is no debunk available for the many witnesses.

I'm open to further discussion but 24 years later there can be no doubting this case.

No diversion going on, simply proving about dubbing over a vid.  OK zoser have it you way, so lets look at the witnesses shall we?

Let me start with this:

"According to Tass, and a report today in the newspaper Sovetskaya Kultura, two boys and a girl from a local school - Vasya Surin, Zhenya Blinov and Yuliya Sholokhova - were playing in a park on the warm evening of Sept. 27 when suddenly, at half past six, ''they saw a pink shining in the sky and then spotted a ball of deep red color'' about 10 yards in diameter. A crowd gathered, ''and they could clearly see a hatch opening in the lower part of the ball and a humanoid in the opening.''

OK so they describe a pink shining and a ball of deep red. Hold that thought...

cont:

"In the latest development, not yet reported by Tass, Mr. Lebedev said that Genrikh M. Silanov, head of the Voronezh Geophysical Laboratory, today asked the children to draw what they had seen.

Though isolated from one another, he said, the children all drew a banana-shaped object that left behind in the sky the sign of the letter X. Such descriptions, Mr. Silanov said, were reported as typical of U.F.O.'s in a 1976 article in the now defunct American magazine Saga. Mr. Silanov said today that a rock that was reportedly found at the site and described as being not something found on earth was actually a form of hematite, which is found in various parts of the Soviet Union.


Ok so at first it was a pink light and deep red colored ball? But in the SAME STORY... "the children all drew a banana-shaped object that left behind in the sky the sign of the letter X


so they didnt actually draw a landed craft with aliens, just something in the sky?


HUH? cant even draw what they describe can they?


and then:

"A local scientist "quoted" in the TASS articles, Genrikh Silanov, the head of the Voronezh Geophysical Laboratory, reportedly claimed that TASS had greatly embellished his account of the events in Voronezh.

"Don't believe all you hear from Tass," [Silanov] stated. "We never gave them part of what they published"


Aha....so even he wont agree with what was published.... your on thin ice time matey....


and then:

"After a brief disappearance, the three returned, but this time one of the ''humanoids'' had ''what looked like a gun'' by his side - a tube about two feet long that it directed at a 16-year-old boy. The boy, whose name was not given in the report, promptly vanished, but reappeared after the alien embarked in the ball.

Vladimir A. Moiseyev, director of the regional health department, said in a telephone interview that despite reports of widespread fear in the city, none of the witnesses had applied for medical help"


Youd have thought his mum will have rushed him to the docs wouldnt you? or that scientists will have carted him off for tests?  But...no, nada, nothing happened to him and he didnt get any medical help


http://legendofpiner...ezh-russia.html

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#4727    DBunker

DBunker

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,485 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • I prefer to know, not just to believe.

Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:33 PM

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

That's one person.

This is many people unrelated telling the same story regarding an isolated incident.

In addition there was aerial phenomena prior to the event reported by other witnesses.


Ok, fine..... What about back in the days when people (more than one) believed in and said they saw witches??

Going by your "logic", that meens that witches was real.

Edited by DBunker, 04 June 2013 - 06:34 PM.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#4728    zoser

zoser

    Sapphire

  • Member
  • 10,009 posts
  • Joined:19 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

  • It is later than you think.

Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:09 AM

View PostDBunker, on 04 June 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:



Ok, fine..... What about back in the days when people (more than one) believed in and said they saw witches??

Going by your "logic", that meens that witches was real.

How do you know witches were not real as a group of people that had access to ancient esoteric knowledge?  The church did a pretty good job in wiping hem out as history tells.

I still don't get your point.

In 1989 a dozen or so witnesses testify to seeing lights in the sky followed by a strange craft landing from which on human beings exited.  It'ts never happened before of since in that town to our knowledge.  The people do not seem to be related and there has never been a plot or ulterior motive discovered to cast doubt on the claims.  

The craft takes of leaving behind only indentations in the soil.  The visitors leave behind no souvenirs or other trace evidence and the authorities are quick on the scene to sanitise what may have been left behind in terms of radiation traces.


That's pretty much the top and bottom of the story apart perhaps from some boy appearing and later disappearing which may or may not be related to actual events.

Nothing to debunk however 24 Years later the key witnesses have stuck rigidly to their story.  Why do you think that is?

No debunk possible.  All we have is testimony and comparison to other cases.  I can say that with the work done on this thread that this is not an isolated case.  Comparison and correlation is possible with at least 2 dozen other similar cases from around the world going back 70 years.

Draw your conclusions from that.

All denial does is call people liars because what is being portrayed isn't comfortable to the listener.

Edited by zoser, 05 June 2013 - 06:11 AM.

Posted Image


#4729    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,833 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:16 AM

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Nothing anyone has said here casts a shadow of doubt on the witness testimonies.

Yes, Seeder gave you the results of the report on the so called "strange substance"

The report, despite coming from an apparent official source (Tass), is one of the strange tales from the official Soviet medias under the policy of glasnost. Tass, let it be clear, was no more the official voice of the Cremlin, but one news agency like others. The final word was added by Igor Sarotsev, University of Voronezh, who examined the trace and concluded the "anomaly" was due to the 1986 Chernobyl disaster!

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

So another case stands on it's merits; unless anyone has anything else to offer?

It does not even have crutches to lean on. It's a little wet pool.

This is by far ridiculous and not scientific. French ufologist Jean-Jacques Velascocontacted Silanov by phone, starting a written correspondance. Silanov confessed some more unusual, if not ridicule, claims. One among others: his group had telepathic contacts with extraterrestrials.

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Conclusion: A real UFO landing backed up by several witnesses and no ulterior motive.  Usual signs of cover up by authority following well established patterns lending further credence to the incident.

Except test results of the claimed substance destroyed the shaky tale.

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

No book deal, no movie, and no selling Voronezh as a holiday resort.  

Being too crappy to attract Hollywood does not make the story real either.

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

:tu:

:no:

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#4730    seeder

seeder

    Nut Cracker

  • Member
  • 10,246 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK. There if you need me

  • Never forget that only the weak fish swim with the stream, and a lie travels half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.

Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:20 AM

View Postzoser, on 05 June 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:



No debunk possible.  

Is that why you ignored my posts?

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#4731    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,833 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:34 AM

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:



And that is why the Cockroaches will LOSE tonight!

What an embarrassment to the country. A group of walking facepalms. Ghosts remote viewing and the paranormal? I see Mary Shelly's Frankenstein and Rods are missing. Give them time I suppose.

That does not change my thinking, it saddens me to know the credulous are spreading out to Australia is all.

Goodness, how did we manage without them to date?

2008
Bankstown - 24th February. J was sitting on the back veranda with his wife when he noticed a white light moving across the sky. Whilst he was trying to determine which type of object it could be, it stopped dead and then disappeared without making a sound. He believed that such a small light was probably quite distant from him, but that nothing could explain this disappearing trick. This sighting actually turned out to be a daytime one in which the time of the event was late AM. The object moved easterly, that is, from left to right in front of the witness. He even called his wife back after it suddenly stopped. It wasn't so much the type of light in the day that would bring much attention, it was the fact that it was moving too fast and then stopped too suddenly - and after all of that, it suddenly vanished. After gnawing over it for a while, he felt he had no choice but to try and tell someone. He rang 12455 and was given the UFO hotline details.


I mean without this lot, we could have a light in the sky go both unidentified and unreported. Cannot have that now can we. We all know as soon as a light is in the sky we have alien visitors don't we :rolleyes:


That is seriously pure crap. The Australian Police UFO site I gave you agres ago is much, much better. Even for a UFO site LOL.




This is real.

Posted Image



Edited by psyche101, 05 June 2013 - 07:36 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#4732    psyche101

psyche101

    Conspiracy Realist

  • Member
  • 31,833 posts
  • Joined:30 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oz

  • If you stop to think, Remember to start again

Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:42 AM

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Diverting the issue with another video doesn't work seeder.

Does that mean you are going to stop doing it after all this time?

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

I repeat there is no debunk available for the many witnesses.

Yes there is, it seems to be beyond you, which does not negate it.

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

I'm open to further discussion

No, that is one thing you are not capable of, you only know one direction and travelling backwards is not desirable. You have never been open to discussion, as soon as a fact is produced you make up some ridiculous nonsense and tell people to throw texbooks away. That is not discussion.

View Postzoser, on 04 June 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

but 24 years later there can be no doubting this case.

There is always room for further evaluation. Be it required or not might be another issue depending on the specifics, however this case is just a hoax that you insist is real, and we know you are going to do that even if the witnesses come forth and say "IT WAS A HOAX" as you have already done that thrice to my knowledge at least.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#4733    zoser

zoser

    Sapphire

  • Member
  • 10,009 posts
  • Joined:19 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

  • It is later than you think.

Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

View Postseeder, on 05 June 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:



Is that why you ignored my posts?

There is nothing in it other than authority denials.  This is nothing knew; it's been going on since Roswell.

A well established pattern.

Why are the testimonies all so consistent and what did they have to gain?

That 's the only angle from which to debunk this case.

I can't see how that can be done; no one has done this so far.  This means that this case has to be among the classic unsolved ones of the 20 th century.



Posted Image


#4734    seeder

seeder

    Nut Cracker

  • Member
  • 10,246 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK. There if you need me

  • Never forget that only the weak fish swim with the stream, and a lie travels half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.

Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

View Postzoser, on 05 June 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

There is nothing in it other than authority denials.  This is nothing knew; it's been going on since Roswell.

A well established pattern.

Why are the testimonies all so consistent and what did they have to gain?

That 's the only angle from which to debunk this case.

I can't see how that can be done; no one has done this so far.  This means that this case has to be among the classic unsolved ones of the 20 th century.

You also said the same thing about PP and the GP being classic unsolved cases. So tell you what, find me all their testimonies and drawings, or as many as you can,  but outside of any overdubbed video's  please?   Once you have done that I will know you have really researched the subject and I will come back to discuss.

But I think you will have a very hard time finding anything.  But do try please?  And offer me links to credible sources too once done?

Cheers for now


.

Edited by seeder, 05 June 2013 - 03:58 PM.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#4735    S2F

S2F

    Bloodstained Hurricane

  • Member
  • 6,742 posts
  • Joined:22 May 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Right behind you!

  • If you don't believe the sun will rise
    Stand alone and greet the coming night
    In the last remaining light -Audioslave

Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:02 PM

View Postzoser, on 05 June 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

There is nothing in it other than authority denials.  This is nothing knew; it's been going on since Roswell.

A well established pattern.

Why are the testimonies all so consistent and what did they have to gain?

That 's the only angle from which to debunk this case.

I can't see how that can be done; no one has done this so far.  This means that this case has to be among the classic unsolved ones of the 20 th century.

What consistency? Testimonies can only be considered consistent in the very broadest sense of the term. People have made claims. That is the only consistent thing about testimonies.

"You want to discuss plausibility then you have to accept reality." -Mattshark

"Don't argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience." -Obviousman

You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#4736    zoser

zoser

    Sapphire

  • Member
  • 10,009 posts
  • Joined:19 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

  • It is later than you think.

Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:35 PM

Walton gives a more up to date perspective on his abduction and discusses more recent polygraph tests:

An interesting testimony:



Posted Image


#4737    DBunker

DBunker

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,485 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • I prefer to know, not just to believe.

Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:46 PM

This guy Walton has changed (added) to his story too many times for me to even bother listen to his drivel anymore.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#4738    DBunker

DBunker

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,485 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • I prefer to know, not just to believe.

Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

Testimony is what it is..... Cool stories. But in the real world these sci-fi stories meens nothing. Unless you are one of the true believers, of course.

Like gospel to a religious fantaic.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#4739    zoser

zoser

    Sapphire

  • Member
  • 10,009 posts
  • Joined:19 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

  • It is later than you think.

Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:51 PM

View PostDBunker, on 03 July 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

This guy Walton has changed (added) to his story too many times for me to even bother listen to his drivel anymore.

In my experience he has stuck to it rigidly.

I'm just listening to a testimony that he gave to MUFON right now.

He is petitioning the movie industry as we speak to try and get a more authentic remake of the experience.

It was Hollywood that distorted the facts not Walton.

I'm half way through this now.

The interesting testimony begins at 16 mins.



Posted Image


#4740    DBunker

DBunker

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,485 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2005
  • Gender:Male

  • I prefer to know, not just to believe.

Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:10 PM

Like I said, interesting if you like science fiction stories.... and the what if speculations.

As much as you would like these tall tales to be true, wouldnt it be more rewarding with evidence that passes skeptical and scientific peer review?

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users