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Israel - UFO or Missile?


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#646    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:14 AM

http://consciouslife...videos/1129563/

I have no idea how accurate this is or how reliable it is, but what a hoot!
this has to be read, IMO

Spiral UFO recorded over Israel, Russia, Iran, Jordan, and Lebanon 7-Jun-2012 [multiple videos]


(Source: latest-ufo-sightings.net)
Our reader from Iran just reported some strange spiral UFO hovering above Tabriz, Hamedan, Shiraz, Karaj, Tehran, Kermanshah, Mashhad and many other cities in Iran. All of the videos were recorded on Thursday, 7th June 2012 by different persons. According to some witnesses, a white light suddenly exploded and formed a cloud around it, which quickly spread and took half of the sky. Similar videos were also recorded over Israel, Turkey, Russia, Jordan and Lebanon on the same night (see below).

-----------------

Well, The Israel, Syria, Lebanon one was CLEARLY the night of June 6th, not June 7th.

we may be looking at more spirals. I don't know. I just do not know what to make of this one.

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#647    JimOberg

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:52 PM

I am awaiting responses from direct inquiries to sources in Israel and Lebanon.

Earl, I published a link to an eyewitness in Uzbekistan, sorry you didn't see it.

Early, your comment that the missile would have been seen halfway from KY to SS is another example of how easily your imagination gets your rationality into trouble. For weeks you have been insisting that a missile fuselage would be invisible 2000 km away, when everyone else has been trying to tell you it was the missile's exhaust plume, backlit by the sun, that was visible.

And that plume only exists for the first several minutes of flight -- afterwards, the missile and its warheads are coasting, not emitting highly-visible plumes.

And that period -- which is immediately followed by the several-second reentry vehucle spin up that causes the brief spiral to appear -- occurs over the lower Volga Valley -- quite easily in the roughly described line of sight from that Israeli witness.

NOT over central or eastern Kazakhstan -- nothing would be expected to be visible from the missile in that phase of its flight.


#648    JimOberg

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 26 July 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

http://consciouslife...videos/1129563/

I have no idea how accurate this is or how reliable it is, but what a hoot!
this has to be read, IMO

Spiral UFO recorded over Israel, Russia, Iran, Jordan, and Lebanon 7-Jun-2012 [multiple videos]

Our reader from Iran just reported some strange spiral UFO hovering above Tabriz, Hamedan, Shiraz, Karaj, Tehran, Kermanshah, Mashhad and many other cities in Iran. All of the videos were recorded on Thursday, 7th June 2012 by different persons. According to some witnesses, a white light suddenly exploded and formed a cloud around it, which quickly spread and took half of the sky. Similar videos were also recorded over Israel, Turkey, Russia, Jordan and Lebanon on the same night (see below).

"which quickly spread and took half of the sky."

Wow, that's a lot bigger than the descriptions from Israel. It must mean the folks in Iran were CLOSER to the object than folks in Israel.

Isn't that they way you interpret, Earl?

Also, folks in the Caucasus and Iran and Uzbekistan got videos that showed the twisty early atmospheric ascent of the missile [the twists are from high altitude winds at different directions several minutes after missile passage  -- the missile climbed straight]. Nobody in Israel or Jordan got that flight portion, because it was still too low and hadn't risen above the curve of the Earth as observale at the GREATER range in Israel or Jordan.

Right?


#649    zoser

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 26 July 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

http://consciouslife...videos/1129563/

I have no idea how accurate this is or how reliable it is, but what a hoot!
this has to be read, IMO

Spiral UFO recorded over Israel, Russia, Iran, Jordan, and Lebanon 7-Jun-2012 [multiple videos]


(Source: latest-ufo-sightings.net)
Our reader from Iran just reported some strange spiral UFO hovering above Tabriz, Hamedan, Shiraz, Karaj, Tehran, Kermanshah, Mashhad and many other cities in Iran. All of the videos were recorded on Thursday, 7th June 2012 by different persons. According to some witnesses, a white light suddenly exploded and formed a cloud around it, which quickly spread and took half of the sky. Similar videos were also recorded over Israel, Turkey, Russia, Jordan and Lebanon on the same night (see below).

-----------------

Well, The Israel, Syria, Lebanon one was CLEARLY the night of June 6th, not June 7th.

we may be looking at more spirals. I don't know. I just do not know what to make of this one.

Do you have any uploads of the latest spirals Earl?

Posted Image


#650    Eldorado

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:16 PM

Maybe it's a missile pretending to be alien.  Todays weapons are really, really smart.
Can remember during the Baghdad Bombing Telethon, I saw a Tomahawk Cruise missile stop and ask an old guy for directions.

Anyways.  that's my 2 cents.


#651    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:09 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 26 July 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

I am awaiting responses from direct inquiries to sources in Israel and Lebanon.

Earl, I published a link to an eyewitness in Uzbekistan, sorry you didn't see it.

Sorry I missed the UZ link, too. I have tried in vain to get anything from Uzbekistan and other nations to the south of Kazakhstan.
so far, nothing. seems strange to me. it is so easy to get links from Israel.  LOTS of them.


Quote

Early, your comment that the missile would have been seen halfway from KY to SS is another example of how easily your imagination gets your rationality into trouble.


I thought it was logical. sorry. I though  the best chance to see the plume would be at the apex.
Now, if you say they saw it somewhere else, fine, provide a link. Is it over 400 kilometers when it hits the point you refer to?
If not,,, then it won't be seen in Israel. tell me more, please. Link works better.

BTW, I calculated the distance from Tel Aviv to Zhezkaghen (halfway from KY to SS) as 2033 miles. Oh, oh.

Quote



For weeks you have been insisting that a missile fuselage would be invisible 2000 km away, when everyone else has been trying to tell you it was the missile's exhaust plume, backlit by the sun, that was visible.


I'll work with that. fine. I don't think you'll see the plume either, except for maybe a microdot. but we'll see.

Quote

And that plume only exists for the first several minutes of flight -- afterwards, the missile and its warheads are coasting, not emitting highly-visible plumes.

Be careful, Jim, because if it appears in only the first few minutes, 1st stage missiles are no where as good at moving the missile
through miles and therefor it may not come up enough. I have done calculations using height of missile as being 800 miles because Badsekov insisted that is how high the missile went (without evidence, of course). so now we have to decide how high the missile was when you believe the plume was seen. I will wait for that. I also think that from 2100 miles away, the plume will be TINY if not invisible.

BTW, anyone look at weather maps for the night of June 6 in that area? I bet not.


Quote

And that period -- which is immediately followed by the several-second reentry vehucle spin up that causes the brief spiral to appear -- occurs over the lower Volga Valley -- quite easily in the roughly described line of sight from that Israeli witness.

I will look up lower Volga Valley.
In the meantime, I did post in here, based soley on witness accounts, both Pat-El and Levi were not looking at directly at Kazakhstan that night, I can relay that info to you again if you wish. (north Galilee - Dov Har/Mt Hermon) - that leads to russia - somewhere between Kazakhstan and Ukraine

Quote

NOT over central or eastern Kazakhstan -- nothing would be expected to be visible from the missile in that phase of its flight.

Ok, and can we come to some agreement as to what the altitude of the missile is when it is in Volga Valley area

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps, 26 July 2012 - 10:11 PM.

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#652    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:13 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 26 July 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

"which quickly spread and took half of the sky."

Wow, that's a lot bigger than the descriptions from Israel. It must mean the folks in Iran were CLOSER to the object than folks in Israel.

Isn't that they way you interpret, Earl?

Also, folks in the Caucasus and Iran and Uzbekistan got videos that showed the twisty early atmospheric ascent of the missile [the twists are from high altitude winds at different directions several minutes after missile passage  -- the missile climbed straight]. Nobody in Israel or Jordan got that flight portion, because it was still too low and hadn't risen above the curve of the Earth as observale at the GREATER range in Israel or Jordan.

Right?

Jim I put this article in here as a matter of surprise because I never saw anything quite like it.

I hastened to point out that the date of their reports (June 8) is not the date of the Israel apparition, June 6.

I don't know what to make of it. really. I just can say it is reliable.

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#653    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:26 PM

View Postzoser, on 26 July 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Do you have any uploads of the latest spirals Earl?


Zoser that link shows vids however they are hot links and there is no way to know where the vids were shot.

You can look at it two different ways: 1) everything is accurate. that being the case it does absolutely nothing to take away from an apparition over Israel 2 nights before, while at the same time, these NEW apparitions cannot be explained away by a Russian missile that was launched 2 days earlier. that means you now have SEVERAL more apparitions that have to be explained that are not a missile.
or 2) the author of the article was drunk when s/he wrote it LOL


Sooooo.... Unless I find any more such evidences, I'm ignoring it.

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps, 26 July 2012 - 10:27 PM.

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#654    Hazzard

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:37 PM

Earl,... the government payed desinformation specialist kicking the free thinkers saucer shaped butt.

How about that!?

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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#655    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 01:42 AM

View PostHazzard, on 26 July 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Earl,... the government payed desinformation specialist kicking the free thinkers saucer shaped butt.

How about that!?

well, geez, hazzard, that would be kinda' blunt but.... LOL

I don't know, man. I don't know

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#656    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:16 AM

as per our discussion:

http://en.wikipedia....-2UTTKh_Topol-M

The Topol-M is a cold-launched, three-stage, solid-propellant, silo-based or road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile.[7] The missile's length is 22.7 m and the first stage has a body diameter of 1.9 m. The mass at launch is 47,200 kg, including the 1200 kilogram payload. Topol-M carries a single warhead with a 800 kt yield [2] but the design is compatible with MIRV warheads. According to chief designer Yury Solomonov, the missile can carry four to six warheads along with decoys.[8] Its minimum range is estimated to be 2,000 km and the maximum range 10,500 km



-------------------------------------------collaboration

Apparently these folks see the term "minimum range" exactly as I do:

----------------------------------------------


http://boards.straig...p/t-432077.html


Found this;

http://www.missileth...sile_detail.asp

"Both versions were constrained by a minimum range of 600 km (373 miles) and an accuracy of 550 m CEP."

And this:
http://www.missileth...sile_detail.asp

"The CSS-5 can deploy its 600 kg payload with a minimum range of 500 km (311 miles) and a maximum range of 2,150 km (1,336 miles)."

Which shows missiles do have minimum ranges, but it varies from missile to missile, assuming the references are accurate. Yes I realise the second one isnt really an ICBM, but I suspect the point stands.

Otara
---------------------------



Now, here is the really objective reaction to this "minimum range" information by the Russian Missile Conspiracy Theorists :

boonY: ---  [FACE PALM}   don't you know what estimate means????

JimO: --- "There is no minimum, it is zero"

Psyche: - "I don't read it that way."

-------------------

three respondents, three different reactions, ALL OF YOU PLAYING --- DUCK,,, DODGE,,, AND HIDE.


the people above had NO PROBLEM reading it the way I did, it is obvious. and they do not even know we exist so they are "objective" in that sense.

face it, there is a minimum to any ICBM, especially and included, the wonderful and amazing, Topol-M. it is 2000 km
It may be an estimate, yes boonY, but until it is refined more, it STANDS, that so far, The Topol-M cannot be fired from Kapustin Yar and be expected to land down in Sary Shagan testing range, it goes to far by a considerable margin.
Strong evidence that the Topol-M that was fired thenight of June 6, 2012, from Kapustin Yar is a

MYTH


we can all agree to disagree, but this is a case where it is not Ok to disagree without LINKS.
As badseko said to me, "get an education, learn about google and get some links"

So I did. your turn now.


-------------------------



In another matter,, Jim Omberg-the-poster has informed us that the Topol-M Missile that was fired on June 6 from Kapustin Yar was seen in Israel when it was in the Volga Valley region of Russia/Kazakhstan, NOT at the missile's apex, as I suspected, which is much further east into east central Kazakhstan.

Now that I know that the Volga River and Volga Valley are in Russia and the Western portion of Kazakhstan that borders Russia, I sit in awe and wonder..... REAQLLY!?!? right near Kapustin Yar itself.

Did Jim throw that information out just because I showed the Yigal Pat-El and Natan Levi were not even looking at Kazakhstan when they saw the apparition, they were looking WEST of Kazakhstan into Russia? that would be very near the Volga Valley region. AMAZING find, JimO. amazing.

interesting development. I wish Jim had been forthcoming about that location all along.  Coincodence?

So, I now wonder how JimOmberg-the-poster can back that up AND show that in that very beginning of the missiles run, that it made it HIGH enough for the plume to be able to be seen on the Israeli border.

I get a very strong sense of "slipping, sliding, and avoiding" on these two issues in here, not a sense of objectivity at all.
I also think the "Russian Missle Conspiracy Theory" is taking yet another hit.

I've asked Jim for links.

and if anybody knows of any links that says that ICBM's do NOT have minimum ranges, I would like to see that.

One last note: When you see that an ICBM must have a minimum range of 5,500 km to be considered an ICBM, what they mean by that is this: the maximum range of a missile must be a minimum of 5,500 km - or, you must be able to go 5,500 km to be considered a true ICBM.

with that said, each missile - each ICBM missile has its own "minimum range"
the minimum range for the Topol-M is 2000 km and although I said earlier the Peacekeeper has a minimum range of 3,000 miles, my bad, I meant the Minuteman ICBM has a minimum range of 3,000 miles, which is the missile Badsekov cited his stats from.

look them up yourselves. I know it is not t realm you will enjoy but if you are objective you will want to be certain on all these issues

---------


One last issue here,,,

I did a re-calculation. we have been using an estimate of 1500 miles form Israel to the missile plume being seen.

the distancce from Tel Aviv to Zhezkaghen is 2033 miles. Zhezkaghen being the mid point in line from Kapustin Yar and Sary Shagan testing base, which is just about where the missile reached its apex or zenith.

Now if we use something much closer to Kapustin Yar as where the missile was,,, the distance INCREASES.
I have yet to figure that out, but I will, but expect a value of about 2,300 miles.

2300 miles...? and it is seen so big in Israel ppl clal the police????

Excuse me while I ROFLMAO all over the place.

Peace love dove, y'all. :rofl:

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#657    bmk1245

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:24 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 27 July 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

as per our discussion:

http://en.wikipedia....-2UTTKh_Topol-M

The Topol-M is a cold-launched, three-stage, solid-propellant, silo-based or road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile.[7] The missile's length is 22.7 m and the first stage has a body diameter of 1.9 m. The mass at launch is 47,200 kg, including the 1200 kilogram payload. Topol-M carries a single warhead with a 800 kt yield [2] but the design is compatible with MIRV warheads. According to chief designer Yury Solomonov, the missile can carry four to six warheads along with decoys.[8] Its minimum range is estimated to be 2,000 km and the maximum range 10,500 km
[...]
Other sources do not mention minimum range.



View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 27 July 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

[...]
face it, there is a minimum to any ICBM, especially and included, the wonderful and amazing, Topol-M. it is 2000 km
It may be an estimate, yes boonY, but until it is refined more, it STANDS, that so far, The Topol-M cannot be fired from Kapustin Yar and be expected to land down in Sary Shagan testing range, it goes to far by a considerable margin.
Strong evidence that the Topol-M that was fired thenight of June 6, 2012, from Kapustin Yar is a

MYTH
[...]
According to article, two main reasons for launches from Kapustin Yar to Sary Shagan and not from Plesetsk to Kura (Kamchatka):
1) radar equipment on Kura does not allow to track maneuvers of separated warheads;
2) americans spy such maneuvers from Alaska.

Edit: spelling

Edited by bmk1245, 27 July 2012 - 08:29 AM.

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#658    lost_shaman

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:01 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 27 July 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

as per our discussion:

http://en.wikipedia....-2UTTKh_Topol-M

The Topol-M is a cold-launched, three-stage, solid-propellant, silo-based or road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile.[7] The missile's length is 22.7 m and the first stage has a body diameter of 1.9 m. The mass at launch is 47,200 kg, including the 1200 kilogram payload. Topol-M carries a single warhead with a 800 kt yield [2] but the design is compatible with MIRV warheads. According to chief designer Yury Solomonov, the missile can carry four to six warheads along with decoys.[8] Its minimum range is estimated to be 2,000 km and the maximum range 10,500 km



-------------------------------------------collaboration

Apparently these folks see the term "minimum range" exactly as I do:

----------------------------------------------


http://boards.straig...p/t-432077.html


Found this;

http://www.missileth...sile_detail.asp

"Both versions were constrained by a minimum range of 600 km (373 miles) and an accuracy of 550 m CEP."

And this:
http://www.missileth...sile_detail.asp

"The CSS-5 can deploy its 600 kg payload with a minimum range of 500 km (311 miles) and a maximum range of 2,150 km (1,336 miles)."

Which shows missiles do have minimum ranges, but it varies from missile to missile, assuming the references are accurate. Yes I realise the second one isnt really an ICBM, but I suspect the point stands.

Otara

Really Earl? Your source is wikipedia. So who estimated that number?

Isn't the difference only around 50 miles? Your own link say's the Missile is "road-mobile". They may have driven it a few miles to the west. But that doesn't matter because it is not the Missile that hits the target it is the Warheads the Missile releases along it's trajectory.

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#659    Earl.Of.Trumps

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:42 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 27 July 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

Other sources do not mention minimum range.



According to article, two main reasons for launches from Kapustin Yar to Sary Shagan and not from Plesetsk to Kura (Kamchatka):
1) radar equipment on Kura does not allow to track maneuvers of separated warheads;
2) americans spy such maneuvers from Alaska.

Edit: spelling

let me ask you something, if "another source" does not mention minimum range, does that mean, does that mean it  does not exist? that would seem to be the author or editor's choice but clearly the term exists and it has MEANING

and I do not know why you are making mention of WHY they launch from Kapustin Yar. really.
at this moment, I am not challenging that because everyone in here is in agreement with JimOmberg-the-poster.
No problem.

I did mention that the RUSSIANS said it was launched in the north of Russia, the South East of Russia, and from a mobile Launcher - in addition to Southern Russia (Kapustin Yar implied)

Obviously I believe NONE of them but I will let posters in here choose their own launch site, of course.
I have to give you all EVERY,and I mean EVERY benefit of the doubt.

the sure sign of closed minds.

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#660    badeskov

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:48 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 27 July 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

<snip>

we can all agree to disagree, but this is a case where it is not Ok to disagree without LINKS.
As badseko said to me, "get an education, learn about google and get some links"

So I did. your turn now.
<snip>

Yes, I indeed did and while you are certainly trying, I can by all means of respect see that you still need some more. The Topol-M may have a minimum operational range within certain operational specifications, however (as Jim also explained earlier), you can fire a rocket up at a higher angle of attack and let it come down at much lesser distances. You could even fire it straight up and have it come down into your launch area. Not very effective testing, but certainly possible. That is what I mean by educating yourself. Read up on ballistics and missile technology, then I think you would see a lot of this in a completely different light.  

Cheers,
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