56 replies to this topic

[MichaelW]

Yamato, on 12 June 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

I am informed and that's precisely why your brainwashed Zionist excuse mill is so nasty and immature every time you once again make the mistake of responding to me on this website.

If you were informed, then you'd note the lack of bodies in Tel Aviv because of the regime's paranoia. You'd also notice the lack of martial law and tanks on the streets. You'll also notice the complete and utter lack of any armed resistance movement within Israel also.

If there are any mistakes made by me, it's bothering to actually correct what should be blatantly obvious. Schoolchildren have better knowledge absorbtion and yet I'm having to explain the basics. Again.

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Israel uses the army to maintain its policies every day so yes, of course it would use the army to maintain its power.

Of course it does. Pigs can fly as well you know.

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That goes without saying when you have some facts.   You have a lot of opinion and it's a lot closer to nonsense that doesn't reflect the facts we do have.  For instance, Palestinians underwent democratic elections to determine their leaders and your heroes put them in a concentration camp.

Democratic elections? You mean how Mahmoud Abbas decided to give himself a term extention irrespective of what the general populace thinks? Yeah, democracy at its finest. or what about the elections in Gaza? You only have one party to vote for, thanks to Hamas' idea that getting rid of the competiton is a good thing.

[Yamato]

MichaelW, on 12 June 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

If you were informed, then you'd note the lack of bodies in Tel Aviv because of the regime's paranoia. You'd also notice the lack of martial law and tanks on the streets. You'll also notice the complete and utter lack of any armed resistance movement within Israel also.

If there are any mistakes made by me, it's bothering to actually correct what should be blatantly obvious. Schoolchildren have better knowledge absorbtion and yet I'm having to explain the basics. Again.



Of course it does. Pigs can fly as well you know.



Democratic elections? You mean how Mahmoud Abbas decided to give himself a term extention irrespective of what the general populace thinks? Yeah, democracy at its finest. or what about the elections in Gaza? You only have one party to vote for, thanks to Hamas' idea that getting rid of the competiton is a good thing.

I meant the elections in Gaza.  If Israel didn't like Hamas they shouldn't have spent all that effort propping it up for all those years.  If you have a copy of their ballot to show me there was only one name on it, I'll take a look.

If there's politics in Gaza that squeezed voices/influence out of the election, welcome to politics everywhere, kid.  Welcome to "democracy".

Edited by Yamato, 12 June 2012 - 10:28 AM.

[Yamato]

Israeli "checkpoints" and "Israel-only" corridors are being enforced.   Israeli settlements are being "protected".   Palestinian borders are being surrounded and blockaded.  This is just a few examples of how their military is using its power every day to enforce its policies.  And no, pigs can't fly.   But a Zionist will sure try.

[MichaelW]

Yamato, on 12 June 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

I meant the elections in Gaza.  If Israel didn't like Hamas they shouldn't have spent all that effort propping it up for all those years.  If you have a copy of their ballot to show me there was only one name on it, I'll take a look.

Did they now? And any evidence for this?

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If there's politics in Gaza that squeezed voices/influence out of the election, welcome to politics everywhere, kid.  Welcome to "democracy".

You mean the small civil war against Fatah? That isn't "democracy" at all and it certainly cannot be attributed to anything the West or even the new-found democracy in it's western neighbour.

It's not very democratic if you win the elections and then remove your opponents from the picture completely. Sure, there's been some reconcilation, but who honestly thinks a bunch of terrorists in Gaza and a bunch of corrupt ogilarchs in Ramallah will put their differences aside and cooperate with Israel?

[MichaelW]

Yamato, on 12 June 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Israeli "checkpoints" and "Israel-only" corridors are being enforced.   Israeli settlements are being "protected".   Palestinian borders are being surrounded and blockaded.  This is just a few examples of how their military is using its power every day to enforce its policies.  And no, pigs can't fly.   But a Zionist will sure try.

The West Bank is as Israeli as Nothern Cyprus is Turkish. So, it's considered "foreign territory". And even then, the IDF isn't being used. The Border Police are, which is the Israel equivalent of the Gendameries found in many European nations.

Now, with regards to policies in Israel within its territorially recognised borders, please explain how the IDF is being used to enforce policies there.

[Yamato]

MichaelW, on 12 June 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Did they now? And any evidence for this?



You mean the small civil war against Fatah? That isn't "democracy" at all and it certainly cannot be attributed to anything the West or even the new-found democracy in it's western neighbour.

It's not very democratic if you win the elections and then remove your opponents from the picture completely. Sure, there's been some reconcilation, but who honestly thinks a bunch of terrorists in Gaza and a bunch of corrupt ogilarchs in Ramallah will put their differences aside and cooperate with Israel?

Unfortunately Gazans are a lot more than Hamas so it's terroristic and disgusting to hear voices that can't differentiate innocent masses from their imperfect bureaucrats.   All you do is blubber about gubmint and gubmint is no excuse for even more gubmint.   Less government and neutrality is the prudent path here.  It's ridiculous how much trouble you have with this.  Maybe you should spend a moment seeing how your government handles Israel.  

Honestly, who thinks anyone would cooperate with criminal thugs from Israel?   The US Congress, the oil lobby, defense lobby, Israel lobby...I'll add you on top of that muffin like a little speck of pepper.   But none of these groups represent my best interests, and abstaining from the region (and not giving your opinions a chance) is the much better (and more affordable) solution.

[Yamato]

MichaelW, on 12 June 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

The West Bank is as Israeli as Nothern Cyprus is Turkish. So, it's considered "foreign territory". And even then, the IDF isn't being used. The Border Police are, which is the Israel equivalent of the Gendameries found in many European nations.

Now, with regards to policies in Israel within its territorially recognised borders, please explain how the IDF is being used to enforce policies there.

The IDF is force.  Military police are force.  The government itself, is force.   IDF checkpoints are enforced.  I don't care what bureau of goons it is doing it or what their name is.

The IDF is just sitting around watching TV then.  Great answer.

[Corp]

He might as well given Israel doesn't seem interested in working out a peace deal. Don't think it'll go anywhere though.

[and then]

Corp, on 12 June 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

He might as well given Israel doesn't seem interested in working out a peace deal. Don't think it'll go anywhere though.

Both sides want it all.  I imagine that if the US were not backing Israel the UN would have found a way to de-legitimize it as a member State by now.  Back in the 60's when France and Israel worked together to achieve nuclear weapons the world was set on a path that haunts everyone today.  But the whole darned thing is insane if you look at what the Jews are being asked to do.  What other people in the world would be asked to just give up their right to nationhood and security voluntarily?  Especially one that the world has PROVEN it doesn't mind seeing eliminated?

[and then]

Yamato, on 12 June 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

Speaking of "indefensible", the borders of 1967 Palestine are what's indefensible.  But to pretend that the illegal swiss-cheesed mess Palestine would be could actually succeed after these "new realities on the ground" are accepted, chopped into pieces across a hostile neighbor's borders.   I'm not interested in moving to Wonderland and pretending such a ludicrous proposition has a chance in hell of surviving.

Muslims do kill their own, and we pay a dramatically disproportionate amount of attention to them when they do it because they're sitting on gigantic fields of oil.  It's up to Muslims to determine what kind of Muslim they should be.  That's none of my business and thus none of my concern.  They can butcher themselves until hell freezes over and I will not give them their swords they use to kill each other. And you thought I wasted my time sulking at the evil and inhumanity of the world that I'm not-responsible for?   Bwaha

Let's, at the very least, go cry for the Africans first, before I ride down your slippery slope on this.
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In the 40's the Israelis agreed to a much smaller piece of land as a homeland.  The Arabs said no..they were and are irrevocably against a Jewish State.  They made war several times to destroy that State and they LOST land every time.  How is that Israel's fault?

[Yamato]

and then, on 12 June 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

In the 40's the Israelis agreed to a much smaller piece of land as a homeland.  The Arabs said no..they were and are irrevocably against a Jewish State.  They made war several times to destroy that State and they LOST land every time.  How is that Israel's fault?

Moreover, how is any rhetoric from you about Israel Israel's fault?  

There's blame to go around for Israel.  Some blame shortsighted global bureaucracy that didn't anticipate, safeguard or control a huge mess dumped unwanted in the region's lap..  Some blame Zionist ambition. Some blame regional intolerance.  Some blame terrorists on both sides.  Some blame terrorists on only one side.   Some blame Britain.  Some blame the US.  Some blame the UN.  Some see enough blame to go around for everyone and so blaming over the past can't be useful to set the policy of the present.

If other such candy lands are granted elsewhere by international government and we adjudicate each one based on how well-armed they start out and ultimately how well they end up killing the neighbors, I'm not going to pretend that unending violence is the solution to that stupid mistake.  The solution is not to make the mistake in the first place.

The UN only has authority when and where the Zionists want it to.  Aside from that, it's "might makes right".  Putting all the military cheerleading, chest beating, ball scratching and flag waving aside, the UN for all its faults never lost a war against Israel.

[and then]

Yamato, on 12 June 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Moreover, how is any rhetoric from you about Israel Israel's fault?  

There's blame to go around for Israel.  Some blame shortsighted global bureaucracy that didn't anticipate, safeguard or control a huge mess dumped unwanted in the region's lap..  Some blame Zionist ambition. Some blame regional intolerance.  Some blame terrorists on both sides.  Some blame terrorists on only one side.   Some blame Britain.  Some blame the US.  Some blame the UN.  Some see enough blame to go around for everyone and so blaming over the past can't be useful to set the policy of the present.

If other such candy lands are granted elsewhere by international government and we adjudicate each one based on how well-armed they start out and ultimately how well they end up killing the neighbors, I'm not going to pretend that unending violence is the solution to that stupid mistake.  The solution is not to make the mistake in the first place.

The UN only has authority when and where the Zionists want it to.  Aside from that, it's "might makes right".  Putting all the military cheerleading, chest beating, ball scratching and flag waving aside, the UN for all its faults never lost a war against Israel.

The point was a simple one.  There can be no peace with an enemy determined to destroy you.  I agree about the UN.  If any further proof were needed as to how useless and incompetent they are just look at Houla and Syria in general.  Since their inception the UN has spent more time flogging Israel than any other problem they've tried to deal with.  But if they actually did declare war on Israel they would only cause a catastrophe and they know it.  Had it been within the power of the UN to achieve it, Israel would have been dead long ago.

[Yamato]

and then, on 12 June 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

The point was a simple one.  There can be no peace with an enemy determined to destroy you.  I agree about the UN.  If any further proof were needed as to how useless and incompetent they are just look at Houla and Syria in general.  Since their inception the UN has spent more time flogging Israel than any other problem they've tried to deal with.  But if they actually did declare war on Israel they would only cause a catastrophe and they know it.  Had it been within the power of the UN to achieve it, Israel would have been dead long ago.

Israel destroys Palestine physically every day.  Before you drag in one side's sins of the past while remaining ignorant at the others as discussions about this topic always devolve into, a piece of paper from a Hamas charter has some words on it.   How can any Zionist genuinely not understand how insignificant that is compared to the daily oppression of millions of people?   I don't know how you measure "determination to destroy" but destroying speaks louder than talk or text about returning the favor.

[MichaelW]

Yamato, on 12 June 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Unfortunately Gazans are a lot more than Hamas so it's terroristic and disgusting to hear voices that can't differentiate innocent masses from their imperfect bureaucrats.

I am now a terrorist am I? I haven't set a bomb off anywhere or massacred people so how can you liken me to terrorism? Yes, Gazans are a lot more than Hamas but they are the ones that voted them in. Fatah didn't make it painfully clear that their goal wasn't to destroy Israel.

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All you do is blubber about gubmint and gubmint is no excuse for even more gubmint.   Less government and neutrality is the prudent path here.  It's ridiculous how much trouble you have with this.  Maybe you should spend a moment seeing how your government handles Israel.

Our government has bigger fish to fry at the moment.

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Honestly, who thinks anyone would cooperate with criminal thugs from Israel?

Honestly, who thinks anyone would cooperate with criminal thugs from Palestine.

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The IDF is force. Military police are force. The government itself, is force. IDF checkpoints are enforced. I don't care what bureau of goons it is doing it or what their name is.

So in other words, unsubstantiated claims then. Surprise, surprise.  

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The IDF is just sitting around watching TV then. Great answer.

It is a great answer because that's what they're doing half the time. Not every single soldier in Israel is on active duty. And not every soldier is a murderous criminal, although some people are easily misled.

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But none of these groups represent my best interests, and abstaining from the region (and not giving your opinions a chance) is the much better (and more affordable) solution.

Tell me, was the last group that best represented your interests defeated in the Crusades by any chance? Those Christians who fought for a Jerusalem controlled by Christianity?

[Yamato]

MichaelW, on 13 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

It is a great answer because that's what they're doing half the time.

Tell me, was the last group that best represented your interests defeated in the Crusades by any chance? Those Christians who fought for a Jerusalem controlled by Christianity?

The IDF spends half its time sitting around watching TV?   Sounds like the fight of their lives.

Your banter invoked a great idea for civil action in Israel, courtesy of the good ole' US taxpayer, intent on challenging the freedom of Israel's dress codes.   Imagine you and me, and about 20 or 30 other tourists together out on the streets of Israel, every one of us wearing something like this:





Sitting around watching TV doesn't accomplish anything; fighting for freedom does.  If you want to initiate political change, if you want to challenge tyranny, you have to push the envelope, young man.  Liberty doesn't defend itself and I hope you're libertarian enough to understand that no government is ever going to give it to you.

But you've never understood me correctly from the day you ran into me, and you fail to understand me correctly here again.  Unlike you and your Zionist posse, I'm the one in the room that could care less who runs Israel!  Give me the big sword and I'll sever Israel's umbilical cord in half in one homerun slice, just as I can't repeat enough times for you to remember: Israel should sink or swim on her own merit.

Or for something a little less English and a little more Templar, costumes like this:

Edited by Yamato, 13 June 2012 - 11:12 AM.