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Do people believe in religion because they...

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#136    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:52 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 13 July 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

You don't read the crap you post then do you. lol
Crap? That's your opinion. As a conduit of the "flow," I share that deepest side of my life to world, as honestly and bravely as possible. I do answer to that "flow," after all. I follow where it takes me, regardless of the consequences. The story of my life is my only testiment.


#137    Rlyeh

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:00 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 13 July 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Crap? That's your opinion. As a conduit of the "flow," I share that deepest side of my life to world, as honestly and bravely as possible. I do answer to that "flow," after all. I follow where it takes me, regardless of the consequences. The story of my life is my only testiment.
What exactly are you sharing?
Baseless assertions? False promises? The blame of others when you fail to deliver?

Oh yeah, that's real deep.

I'll be honest too. You have a story alright, one of failure.

Edited by Rlyeh, 13 July 2012 - 10:03 AM.


#138    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:19 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 13 July 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

What exactly are you sharing?
Baseless assertions? False promises? The blame of others when you fail to deliver?

Oh yeah, that's real deep.

I'll be honest too. You have a story alright, one of failure.
If it were a failure, I wouldn't be here sharing my life with enthusiasm and amusement. For those who know my life: on the surface, materially speaking, it's quite a devastation...but it gave me a new direction and deeper sense of gratitude. As far as false promises...one has to give them time to reveal themselves. Again, one's destiny is a major factor to consider. Another is going beyond one's equilibrium. I accepted the offer to be a conduit, partly because this lineage emphasizes results...spiritual results...of the spirit.

Change has its price. One cannot go around it, but one has to do the "work" -- spiritual work. Nah, my story will never be a failure for many reasons, not just spiritual reasons.


#139    failturner25

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:20 AM

I'm sorry braveone2u, but I can not take you seriously anymore until you answer the question one of the admins asked you a while ago.


#140    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:28 AM

Please

View Postfailturner25, on 13 July 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

I'm sorry braveone2u, but I can not take you seriously anymore until you answer the question one of the admins asked you a while ago.
Please check your inbox. I'm off to bed. It's very late here.


#141    Rlyeh

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:33 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 13 July 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

If it were a failure, I wouldn't be here sharing my life with enthusiasm and amusement. For those who know my life: on the surface, materially speaking, it's quite a devastation...but it gave me a new direction and deeper sense of gratitude. As far as false promises...one has to give them time to reveal themselves. Again, one's destiny is a major factor to consider. Another is going beyond one's equilibrium. I accepted the offer to be a conduit, partly because this lineage emphasizes results...spiritual results...of the spirit.

Change has its price. One cannot go around it, but one has to do the "work" -- spiritual work. Nah, my story will never be a failure for many reasons, not just spiritual reasons.
How noble of you.
I really wonder if you do attempt to communicate with others, or you're simply praising yourself up.

Many will agree you've failed to deliver, but hey it's their fault isn't it?


#142    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:42 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 13 July 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

How noble of you.
I really wonder if you do attempt to communicate with others, or you're simply praising yourself up.

Many will agree you've failed to deliver, but hey it's their fault isn't it?
You have to keep in mind that I'm merely a servant of the "flow." I'm not the "flow." My service, however, is free, and I certainly do overtime, in case you haven't noticed. LOL

Whether you think I'm a failure or not, I really don't care. It's really beyond my control.

Good night...or I should say, good morning.


#143    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:50 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 09 June 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

can't comprehend science/logic/reality, or want an easy explanation for everything?

Let's get serious.

Religion, the paranormal etc. are very convenient explanations for confusing things in our lives.

The ability to create illogical and unsupported explanations is one that we all posses. Any person can dream up their own fantastic solutions to things that may be otherwise explained by more logical means.
The only things that have ever been proven have been through scientific means. And once they're proven they don't seem as special anymore to the people who believed otherwise.

So:

Is it taking the easy way out by believing in religion or otherwise?

Does it make life easier neglecting evidence and blindly following unsubstantiated beliefs?

Are people just not willing to accept that the truths in science etc. are hard to understand and that we will never understand everything?

I'm willing to accept that there may be more to life, and if so I'll shake God (that's any God, belief system, or otherwise) by the hand at heavens gate, congratulate him on his ongoing grand deception, and he'll accept me for who I am because he will appreciate I've lived logically and had no evidence to support his existence.
It's actually pretty amazing to consider how insignificant we are in relation to everything that we know exists. And everything that we know, our knowledge of the extent of the universe, could be worth but a grain of sand in relation to what's really out there.

There are answers for everything. But we will never find them all.

Can you appreciate that everything could be possibly explained logically?

Some people are negative when it comes to there being a God but some are positive. This determines if they are open to religion or not.

As for science it has been pointed out in many topics on this forum, in science and in philosophy that materialism is flawed. Human beings are not robots or machines as those who are still living in a Newtonian clockwork reality believe.

Western society is negative towards religion, doesnt teach the people the truth and only gives them materialism so you keep being a consumer.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 13 July 2012 - 10:51 AM.


#144    Mr Walker

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:28 AM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 13 July 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Western society is negative towards religion, doesnt teach the people the truth and only gives them materialism so you keep being a consumer.
I am absolutely a non believer in conspiracy theories. The real world simply doesnt work like that for a number of good reasons Nonetheless you have hit on a very good point here.

As many wise humans have pointed out  it is very difficult to live a materialist life and be spiritually fulfilled. One can certainly have material "comforts" including good medicine hot showers etc but one needs to see those things as fulfilling our physical requirements for health and happiness notends in them selves. We as humans also have spiritual requirements for happiness.Unfortunately the pursuit of materialism tends to mean we never find those spiritual  requirements. Its not really a conspiracy, just ignorance and laziness by most people creating serious imbalances in their life.
Thus we have practical measurable indicators like depression  alienation and suicide higher now than they have ever been  in western societies, while we are materially richer than we have ever been. The amazing thing is that while the situation is so obvious and measurable, so few people appear to notice it. Now that suicide is the highest cause of death in australian males under 40, and all australians under about 30, suddenly some people are begining to take notice
But these sort of indicators have been edging up for decades.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#145    Arbenol

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:27 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 12 July 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I get that, and I'm not taking that away at all.  Humanists often tell Christians and other religious people that they have to provide objective facts about God before they claim that He is true.  However, when a Christian asks how the humanist finds life has any meaning, he may say, "It's all personal.  It's all relative."  By what grounds does he make statements like that?  That brings me back to my original argument.

I suppose we would need to agree on how we define "meaning". For me, it's about being the best father I can be (and beating myself up when I get it wrong), trying to be a better husband, to be a productive member of my community and society in general. To do no harm and to try my best to enjoy the ride. These things give my life purpose and meaning. And I'll bet yours isn't too different. Where we differ fundamentally is that I don't believe there is anything other than material reality, no need for metaphysical considerations.

In that way I don't think anyone can claim that meaning is entirely personal and relative. We're all generally sailing our ships in the same direction - we just disagree about our port of origin.

View PostBluefinger, on 12 July 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I wasn't trying to insult what is important to you.  I'm trying to speak objectively to humanists so that they can see how exactly they treat religious people often.  It really is a double standard.  They tell us to prove God's existence, regardless of the relevance of our arguments, yet they speak objectively about their beliefs without even blushing.

I understand what you're saying here. From your profile quote it seems you've had some bad experiences from declaring your faith to others - or at least been made aware of others' antipathy toward it. I tend not to mind that too much and accept that it's going to happen on internet boards. I try (and often fail) to respect other people even if I can't respect the belief. It's tricky sometimes.

View PostBluefinger, on 12 July 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Not necessarily.  It could go the other way around and mean that God's personality is imprinted on us all because we are made in His likeness.

That's very true. It could. However, if there is a plausible natural explanation I'm more likely to favour that.

View PostBluefinger, on 12 July 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

  I hear your arguments.  I can understand how you find my question strange.  I guess I don't agree totally.  People die.  Everything dies.  That means that, while we are alive, we are interpreting everything happening to us.  If that is what life having meaning is about, then doesn't the meaning of life die with us?  And when the universe grows cold or resets, doesn't that make life a vanity?

Again, I'm not saying that I believe life is a vanity.  I think it is very very important.  I believe we are valuable, even to the least of us.  And that is why I cannot buy the humanist argument.  I am deeply concerned about the objective truths, things beyond our relative beliefs.  Humanists are ridiculing Christians left and right on this forum because they can't provide objective information about God, and the meaning of life for that matter.  People are insulting and harming each other and their reputations over this conflict.  How does that point to morality?
  And if we find ourselves alone, does that mean that our lives are meaningless then?  We are getting to a point where, no matter how close people are, they are still feeling alone.  Suicide shooting up through the roof.  And if we are all so cooperative, why is it that a few individuals in the government are more and more taking over caretaker roles?

I want to know if life has purpose even when I'm at most lonely state.  That is what I mean by objective.  If we just talk about relative issues, then that doesn't properly address the social issues that we originally argue about.

I'm not sure I understand you properly here. You've spoken a few times about double standards, and said "And yet they don't ask for objective evidence about their own relative beliefs." I don't know what you mean by relative beliefs.

View PostBluefinger, on 12 July 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I don't need everlasting life to have sound moral principles.  It isn't about that to me.  At all.  That is more like Tertullian's legalistic theology.  I follow Iranaeus' liberation theology more.

I'm interested to learn more about this. Any reading you'd recommend?


#146    Karlis

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:02 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 13 July 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

~~~ ... I'm not the one who's looking for a soul because I've already seen one, two, three ...



braveone2u, you have died, your body began to decay, and yet you lived again. Now you say you have "seen" three souls.

At the risk of sounding too demanding, may I please ask you to clearly explain the above to UM readers in your next few posts.

Of course, you don't have to be more explicit if you choose not to reveal your understanding in clearer language. That said, moderators also reserve the right to terminate topics when required.

Karlis -- mod team member


#147    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostKarlis, on 13 July 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

braveone2u, you have died, your body began to decay, and yet you lived again. Now you say you have "seen" three souls.

At the risk of sounding too demanding, may I please ask you to clearly explain the above to UM readers in your next few posts.

Of course, you don't have to be more explicit if you choose not to reveal your understanding in clearer language. That said, moderators also reserve the right to terminate topics when required.

Karlis -- mod team member
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#148    AwakenAscension

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:45 AM

LOL

Edited by AwakenAscension, 13 November 2012 - 09:49 AM.

Once the threads of fate become entangled,
they can never be undone.
So as we create our destiny, from our own angle,
we stretch and pull this web, as one.





Also tagged with belief, god, truth, evidence, paranormal

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