136 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

I open my USA Today last week and I got a nasty surprise on page 3B.  A full-page ad slobbering with politics telling me why I shouldn't participate in my religion.

The idea for the ad came from FFRF co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor:

"You’re better than your church. So why? Why continue to attend Mass? Tithe? Why dutifully sacrifice to send your children to parochial schools so they can be brainwashed into the next generation of myrmidons (and, potentially, become the next Church victims)? For that matter, why have you put up with an institution that won’t put up with women priests, that excludes half of humanity?

No self-respecting feminist, civil libertarian or progressive should cling to the Catholic faith. As a Cafeteria Catholic, you chuck out the stale doctrine and moldy decrees of your religion, but keep patronizing the establishment that menaces public health by serving rotten offerings. Your continuing Catholic membership, as a “liberal,” casts a veneer of respectability upon an irrational sect determined to blow out the Enlightenment and threaten liberty for women worldwide. You are an enabler. And it’s got to stop."

Here's an excerpt from the ad and a link to the full ad:

"It's time to quit the Catholic Church"
"...It's your moment of truth.  Will it be reproductive freedom, or back to the Dark Ages?   Do you choose women and their rights, or Bishops and their wrongs?  Whose side are you on? ...."

http://ffrf.org/uplo...NYTCatholic.jpg

[Mentalcase]

Can't say I don't agree.

[Left-Field]

I have many issues with the Catholic Church, but it hasn't kept me from being a Christian. I think many people are unaware of the fact that being Christian does not equal being Catholic and wrongly connect the two. While Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholic. It took me a long time to come this realization myself.

I went to Catholic schools for 12-years and attended Catholic mass on a fairly regular basis for 18-years. I always felt that both the school and the church were incredibly hypocritical in their behaviour when compared to what they teach. For that reason I had questioned whether I really believed in the Catholic teachings since a very young age.

As I got older I realized I didn't believe everything they taught, but I still held a firm belief in God. Because I was raised in a Catholic upbringing, however, I wasn't sure what to label myself in regards to my religious beliefs (I still thought that being Christian meant you were automatically a Catholic).

It wasn't until about three years ago that I learned being a Christian did not mean you were a Catholic. I spoke to someone about it and they educated me on this and ever since then I've had a much better understanding of why I was so conflicted with my beliefs in God and Jesus and trying to understand what the Catholic church had taught me through both their words and actions (although they probably aren't aware of what their actions show).

I can now call myself a Christian since I understand what it means and with the understanding that Catholicism puts their own spin on it. It's that spin they put on it that always made me feel unsure about what they were telling me I was supposed to believe. Now I know better and am thankful that I do.

Not all Catholics are hypocrites, but I find the priests and nuns, bishops and cardinals, and even the Pope himself questionable - the Vatican and everything it represents too. Some of the members that make up Catholic parishes are a bit too fanatical as well, but not all of them.

[Yamato]

I would say the Catholic church is a more institutionalized Christianity, but what difference between the two would create conflict in one's belief in God and Jesus?

I spoke with my father recently about Sinead O'Connor and amongst his first words at the mention of her name were "She's anti-Catholic".  I did my own homework and found her to be quite the good Catholic girl.   Speaking out against the wrongs in a church, especially years ahead of the curve as she was, may have been a terrible idea for her career but a huge vindicator for her credibility now that the extent of the abuse has been revealed.  I think an actual sign of being anti-Catholic is quitting the church, not to mention recruiting others to quit like this ad does by playing politics against religion.

Edited by Yamato, 09 June 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[fullywired]

All religions put their own twist on Christianity that is why there are so many branches and sects and Catholics are no different than any any other group.They are always under attack from bigots ,who pick out the bad spots and ignore the failings in their own beliefs .The sexual scandal is one example that is always brought up ,yet just a little research will show that there are more non catholic priests, pastors etc guilty of sexual misconduct but the bigots totally ignore that  and jump on the anti Catholic bandwagon with glee ,Unfortunately this forum attracts quite a lot of these and just reading the posts will point them out to you

   fullywired

[Yamato]

I was immediately called a "religious wacko" here for daring to suggest that Jesus guided my moral code.  

[Seeker79]

Catholicism is like any other institution. It's got it's good points and bad points. if you are going to be apart of anything large and organized there are going to many rough spots, bad apples, and politics. Count me out of all of it, but my wife is catholic. For the most part moderate petitioners just ignore the bull and use the church as place to contemplate and feel closer to god.

I'm often reminded in real life that the amount of arguing about religions and fury that exists on these forums and in the news or publications does not reflect the reality of most people. Most people, including my wife, just shrug their shoulders at all the bickering and use the church for what she needs it for, gives some money because it's a service and it's the honorable thing to do if you are using it, then returns to her life without a whole lot more thought to it.

[karmakazi]

Why is it every time I read a piece of over the top feminist propaganda I feel dirty?  LOL


This is just another piece of writing that lumps an entire group together and villifies it as a whole.  Not all of Catholicism is the same and not all Catholic women are brainwashed into hating their uterus'.   Not all bishops are self serving or harm /coerce people.

Stereotypes and generalizations: Making people seem less like people and more like caricatures for 1000 years.

[Beckys_Mom]

Yamato, on 09 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

I would say the Catholic church is a more institutionalized Christianity, but what difference between the two would create conflict in one's belief in God and Jesus?

I was born and raised Catholic... We were taught - Jesus IS God...   That is what the Catholic Church will teach you over here..  Jesus  is not just your saviour.. but  Jesus IS God...They teach you - You cannot go to heaven without following and  accepting  the gift of Jesus Christ.Jesus is the only path ..   ALL Christians will believe this...  Catholics were  one of the first  before protestants ever came around.. But all believe in it ..

I stepped away from the Catholic faith  long time ago..but not because of some  story I read  ... I did it for my own reasons..  the bible  played a key roles.. But we wont get into that...   You wanting to throw in the towel  over a news article  is a bit too easy for you...   If you are easy persuaded , go for it.. no one is going to care, it is your life.. You may want to follow a new faith... I have a feeling you might  lol.. Anyway who cares?  Do what you feel is right again it is your life...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 09 June 2012 - 12:15 PM.

[Yamato]

Beckys_Mom, on 09 June 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

I was born and raised Catholic... We were taught - Jesus IS God...   That is what the Catholic Church will teach you over here..  Jesus  is not just your saviour.. but  Jesus IS God...They teach you - You cannot go to heaven without following and  accepting  the gift of Jesus Christ.Jesus is the only path ..   ALL Christians will believe this...  Catholics were  one of the first  before protestants ever came around.. But all believe in it ..

I stepped away from the Catholic faith  long time ago..but not because of some  story I read  ... I did it for my own reasons..  the bible  played a key roles.. But we wont get into that...   You wanting to throw in the towel  over a news article  is a bit too easy for you...   If you are easy persuaded , go for it.. no one is going to care, it is your life.. You may want to follow a new faith... I have a feeling you might  lol.. Anyway who cares?  Do what you feel is right again it is your life...

My church would have altar girls and priestesses.    The priests will call me "anti-Catholic" just like the pundits call me "anti government", too clueless in their pursuits to realize that I love my government and am trying to save it.   Likewise I'm trying to save the church and keep it relevant in today's culture.  

I'll borrow an analogy from another wise poster, there's too much blaming the car for all its bad drivers.

Do I think the church can be reformed from within?  Yeah.  Will I reform it in alignment with the laundry list of liberal political positions dropped in this newspaper ad?   No, of course not.

[Beany]

It seems to me that much of the institutionalizing and dogma of Christianity come directly out of the God/Jesus concepts. But the Christian concept is that of a triune god, isn't it? The father, the son, and the holy ghost/spirit.

[Yamato]

Beany, on 09 June 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

It seems to me that much of the institutionalizing and dogma of Christianity come directly out of the God/Jesus concepts. But the Christian concept is that of a triune god, isn't it? The father, the son, and the holy ghost/spirit.

Correct.  That's what I was taught in Catholic Catechism in the US.

[Beckys_Mom]

Yamato, on 09 June 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

My church would have altar girls and priestesses. The priests will call me "anti-Catholic" just like the pundits call me "anti government", too clueless in their pursuits to realize that I love my government and am trying to save it.   Likewise I'm trying to save the church and keep it relevant in today's culture.  

I'll borrow an analogy from another wise poster, there's too much blaming the car for all its bad drivers.

Do I think the church can be reformed from within?  Yeah.  Will I reform it in alignment with the laundry list of liberal political positions dropped in this newspaper ad?   No, of course not.

Nice...but what has that got to do with my post?  Are you leaning on something I have said?

Listen if you want to quit a faith and move on. do it... its no big deal..  People do it all the time  with many faiths ....  Who cares  look see if you read something on the back of a first class stamp about the church that puts you off... BOTTOM LINE IS - If you have your mind made up.. then that is your choice... do as you feel is right...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 10 June 2012 - 12:16 PM.

[Yamato]

Beckys_Mom, on 10 June 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Nice...but what has that got to do with my post?  Are you leaning on something I have said?

Listen if you want to quit a faith and move on. do it... its no big deal..  People do it all the time  with many faiths ....  Who cares  look see if you read something on the back of a first class stamp about the church that puts you off... BOTTOM LINE IS - If you have your mind made up.. then that is your choice... do as you feel is right...

Okay I'll just stay Catholic because the thought never crossed my mind to switch religions (or countries).

[markdohle]

I am catholic, and even as a young boy I was taught about the wrong turns the church took in the past.  Yeah, so what?  It is the kernal of the faith that is important.  The sacraments are healing, the Eucharist central, and I really don't care what others think of me or my faith.  My faith is centerned on Jesus Christ and much in the church helps me to deepen that relationship.  Much of the what is spoken about the church by those outside is shallow, limited and bigoted I would say.  Hey that is ok, it is hard for any of us to step outside of our own perceptions, I struggle with it.  So sling away LOL, it means nothing in the end.  I am not saying that some of the what is said about my church are not helpful, even if painful to hear, but much of it is silly, immature and spoken from the perspective of a college freshmen who is just starting philosophy or a course inworld religion.  Not a slur on freshmen, just that many of our super intelligent athiest, seem to be stuck there, not all of course, but enough actually hurt the atheist stance.  Because, like atheist, christians can also judge the opposing group by their worst and least intelligent.


Sin exits, so when sin happens why should I be surpirsed, I sin, I fall, I get up.  The church does the same thing, though it has to be forced to do so sometimes.....again, people fail, we will always fail, we just need to get up.

peace
mark