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Is it time to return to the Moon?

moon lunar surface lunar exploration manned

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46 replies to this topic

#31    WhyDontYouBeliEveMe

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 07:18 AM

@ inhuman implant !   yeah keep it up goood work !


#32    Erudite Celt

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 09:25 AM

View PostDingoLingo, on 18 June 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

i think we will find that it will be a private enterprise that will do a moon run.. Gov's cannot afford it, so it will end up being a joint effort to get us back there, the same will be for Mars, Nasa etc will do the ground work, probes and the like, but getting man back there, will take some serious coin, that no Gov will ever spend on it, they will cop to much flack from the voters "Why are you spending x.3 billion on going to the moon when peole are starving at home, the hospitals suck, and the schools are run down" etc etc etc..

So we will be looking at big business. And the only reason why they would go to any effort like that is the potential money they can make , The moon, He3, different minerals, from the moon if they set up a base, then we will look at asteroid mining, at a guess pharmaceuticals will end up setting up shop either on a moon base, or a LEO station, compounds work and mix differently in low grav.. so new drugs etc.
rr
And I could go on from there.
I think the low gravity drugs research program is a road to nowhere. Manned missions are also a huge wast of resources. Autonomous probes and rovers can equal and exceed what any human could do on the moon or any other planet. A rover software company from Finland recently tested a rover in the Atacama Desert in Chilli . It has a peripheral vision program that mimics the way a human eye detects anomalous objects on the peripheral edge of vision. A planted brown stock cube on dark sand was detected at an angle of 5* from the plane of vision at a distance of 16 meters!!! Incredible. A modern rover on the moon could easily operate independently for five years. A human on the other hand would require shelter, a return vehicle, food and water. A litre of water [ 1kg ] on the ISS costs $1000.00 post paid!!! Can you imagine what a 1kg box of electronics could do? It certainly wont get thirsty. The time for extended manned missions to terrestrial bodies will come in time but that time ain't now.


#33    Socio

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:05 AM

View Postskookum, on 16 June 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

I think there are loads of scientific reasons why more research is necessary with our moon.  However whether it should be manned missions or just robotic is another matter.  The shear cost of manned flight is probably unobtainable in the present economic climate.  I personally think that most of the experiments could be carried out robotically at a fraction of the cost.

Aside from scientific reasons, I would think with all those craters thus countless meteors  that have struck the moon we should be able to mine rare ores/minerals that would in turn pay for the cost.


#34    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostSocio, on 24 June 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:



Aside from scientific reasons, I would think with all those craters thus countless meteors  that have struck the moon we should be able to mine rare ores/minerals that would in turn pay for the cost.

I would think that a crater is probably quite a poor place to go mining. Any metals brought to the moon by the meteorite would be largely vaporized during the impact. It would probably be cheaper and easier, in the long run, to mine asteroids directly.

Some have proposed mining the moon for helium-3, which is useful in some proposed types of fusion reactors. As such reactors are probably 50 years away at least I've always considered this a bit of a red herring as a reason to return to the moon.

The real reason to return is to actually explore the place. Only 12 men have walked on the moon, and the total time spent walking on the moon is, I believe, 80 hours 35 minutes. That's not exploration, that's a flying visit.

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#35    Belial

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:15 AM

Why go back now, NASA as always gone on about the costs and that they had done all they needed to do there?
Shuttle missions scrapped over costs and safety issues, potentially new space ships in the pipe line - oh the contradiction.

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#36    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:03 AM

View PostBelial, on 24 June 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

Why go back now, NASA as always gone on about the costs and that they had done all they needed to do there?
Shuttle missions scrapped over costs and safety issues, potentially new space ships in the pipe line - oh the contradiction.
Total and utter rubbish.

NASA has NEVER claimed that they did all they needed to, in fact the exact opposite. The reason there is a Saturn V at Kennedy and another at Houston is because Apollo was cancelled early. NASA originally planned to fly at least 3 more Apollo missions to the moon before the politicians pulled the plug.

The reason George W scrapped the shuttle was to free up NASA's budget so that the (now cancelled) Constellation programme could return the USA to the moon.

Even with Constellation cancelled the Orion spacecraft, capable of deep space missions, is still being built. NASA is also building the Saturn V class Space Launch System. By 2020 NASA will have everything it needs to return to the moon EXCEPT a lander.

THAT is why it is being discussed now.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#37    Fox.Mulder

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 08:21 PM

How there is no air on the moon and the flag was flying a little bit?

Edited by Fox.Mulder, 24 June 2012 - 08:24 PM.


#38    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 08:50 PM

View PostFox.Mulder, on 24 June 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

How there is no air on the moon and the flag was flying a little bit?
Please ask this in the conspiracies section. There are plenty of people there that will explain this tired old piece of nonsense to you.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 24 June 2012 - 08:52 PM.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#39    spud the mackem

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 10:44 PM

I do think that "we" should go back, but I don't think that it will be Americans or any other Western power. I think that the Chinese will suddenly declare that they have landed and claim it for The Peoples Republic, as America claimed it for Mankind, then of course a row will start over who it belongs to, when it should not be owned by anyone.Maybe I'm right, maybe wrong I shall wait and see...

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#40    diablo_04

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:40 AM

The time go to the moon passed long time ago, its time to move on to other places if you ask me.
It's not about should we go, but when will go, it's in our blood to be explorers.

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#41    spud the mackem

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:52 PM

View Postdiablo_04, on 25 June 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

The time go to the moon passed long time ago, its time to move on to other places if you ask me.
It's not about should we go, but when will go, it's in our blood to be explorers.
  Agreed on that friend but we still haven't explored all Earth yet , even still finding artifacts in out of way places..and also new species keep turning up in the Seas and Jungles..

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#42    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 06:39 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 24 June 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

I do think that "we" should go back, but I don't think that it will be Americans or any other Western power. I think that the Chinese will suddenly declare that they have landed and claim it for The Peoples Republic, as America claimed it for Mankind, then of course a row will start over who it belongs to, when it should not be owned by anyone.Maybe I'm right, maybe wrong I shall wait and see...
No maybe Spud, you are almost certainly wrong.

Firstly China are extremely unlikely to claim the moon. To do so would be a breach of international law. In 1983 China signed the Outer Space Treaty of 1967. Article II of that treaty states:

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Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

Secondly China are a long way short of even being capable of landing on the moon. They will not have a rocket capable of sending a manned vehicle around the moon until around 2020. This new vehicle would not be capable of launching an Apollo style mission to land on the moon, although it could be possible to mount a landing mission by launching individual components and docking them together in earth orbit.

By the time the Chinese are capable of even thinking about manned moon missions the USA will have Orion and the Space Launch System coming on line, and that would mean the USA would only be lacking a lander to mount a return to the moon.

If the Chinese decided to trigger a new moon race it is a race they almost certainly would not win.

Lastly it is not feasible that the Chinese could, "suddenly declare that they have landed". The Chinese may appear secretive about their space programme when compared to that of the USA but believe me they are open when compared to the Soviet Union. The announce launches before they occur and publicise their long term goals. Currently their aim is for a space station around 2020. There are conflicting stories coming from China about whether they are planning manned landings on the moon, but even if they are it will not be until after they build their space station.

The Soviets, on the other hand, did not announce flights until they had safely reached orbit. They hid their long term goals. They were far less open than China are now.

So what, you might ask. Well the Soviet Union had a moon landing programme. It failed. The Soviets never announced this programme and lied about it until the collapse of Communism. However the West knew about this programme. I have books with fairly accurate drawings of their N1 rocket published whilst the Soviets were still denying it had ever existed. The US knew exactly when every failed launch attempt occurred. If the Soviet Union could not hide their moon programme from US spy satellites in the late '60s/early '70s then there is no way China could hide a moon programme now.

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#43    diablo_04

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:50 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 25 June 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Agreed on that friend but we still haven't explored all Earth yet , even still finding artifacts in out of way places..and also new species keep turning up in the Seas and Jungles..
I don't like the linear path, we should take multiple paths at once, some to discover new species, etc, on earth other to explore space.....I mean to say "still haven't explored all Earth yet" its not an argument to wait to explore out side this planet, I'm sure you will agree with me.

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#44    kwin

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:40 PM

Negatively charged electrons rotating near the speed of light around, and not crashing into, a group of positively charged protons which should repel each other, all held in place by a particle which has no mass to create the terrific unknown force. Defination of a god particle   Just saying....


#45    Perra

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:34 AM

Why go back? It just cost to much money for a journey like that. Aiiiiit?





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