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Phoenix - Flares Debunked


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#76    JesseCuster

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:00 PM

View Postzoser, on 19 June 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

Have you ever asked yourself why mankind needs all that invasive medical technology?  Could it be that modern life is extremely destructive on the human complex and that the medical profession is just repairing the damage that the culture does?
In theory that could be true.

In actual fact, historical and scientific data has shown that humans in developed nations today with access to modern science live on average longer than any group in history, and much longer on average than people the further you go back in history to compare it with.

If modern medicine is merely repairing the damage of modern science then why was life expectancy so short in medieval and ancient times with no modern science to cause the damage that modern medicine is supposedly cleaning up?

Why did so many people die of diseases that a course of antibiotics will deal with today?  Why did so many people die from infected wounds and injuries that are trivial to survive these days with basic medical attention?  Life expectancy in medieval Europe, without any modern science or medicine, was as low as 30 - 40 years old! That means that a person had a 50% change of living to 30-40 years old. Why?  Because childbirth was so dangerous to mothers and babies without modern medicine.  Because so many children died from childhood diseases without access to antibiotics.  Because otherwise minor injuries were life threatening because they lead to infections, gangrene, etc.  Because if you were a diabetic you had no access to insulin injections and thus were doomed to not even live to adulthood.  And in days gone by, in some times and cultures, people drank like fish, smoked like chimneys, etc. because they didn't have access to modern studies that have shown the dangers of these activities.

The problem with your idea is that it is completely at odds with the facts.

Edited by Archimedes, 19 June 2012 - 07:02 PM.

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#77    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:46 PM

I see the correlation with the Flares ,Phoenix, and antibioticaliens.but i get lost on the 30-40 year old smoked vikings and european b\diabetic children?
Am I missing the codex on this thread ?
Lets start all over !

1.FlaRES ARE KOOL TO LOOK AT.
2.PHOENIX IS REALLY hOT ALL YEAR ROUND !
3.From there it all falls apart for some reason.maybe its the time warp. Remember to Jump to the Right,and step to the left ?
    Or was that visa-versa ?

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#78    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:48 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 19 June 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I see the correlation with the Flares ,Phoenix, and antibioticaliens.but i get lost on the 30-40 year old smoked vikings and european b\diabetic children?
Am I missing the codex on this thread ?
2.PHOENIX IS REALLY hOT ALL YEAR ROUND !


Hot as hell out there in that desert sun.  I know what I'm talking about.

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#79    JesseCuster

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:53 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 19 June 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I see the correlation with the Flares ,Phoenix, and antibioticaliens.but i get lost on the 30-40 year old smoked vikings and european b\diabetic children?
That was just me responding to zoser's claim that modern medicine isn't necessary, it's just there to clean up the mess created by modern science.

Which is clearly nonsense as the history of mankind without access to modern science and medicine has shown.  But it's a derail to the overall thread.

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#80    DONTEATUS

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:53 PM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 19 June 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Hot as hell out there in that desert sun.  I know what I'm talking about.

Its Cookin right now there ! Keep the A/C max on McGuff !

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#81    S2F

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:55 PM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 19 June 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Hot as hell out there in that desert sun.  I know what I'm talking about.

Hell yeah it is! I've been to the Phoenix area several times, I have family that lives down that way. It's nothing for it to hit 120+ F in the summer. Hot.

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#82    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 19 June 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Hell yeah it is! I've been to the Phoenix area several times, I have family that lives down that way. It's nothing for it to hit 120+ F in the summer. Hot.

I live in Florida now, where we have the heat plus the humidity, but I lived in Las Vegas for a few years and during the summer it was like walking into an oven.  I lived some in some places overseas that were just as hot--or worse.

I was in Las Vegas a few years ago to settle my father's estate.  He was out in Las Vegas for quite a while and then retired there, and during the time I was handling the estate I thought of staying myself.  I might even go back to Nevada sometime if I get tired of the humidity here.

At the time my father died, though, I was living in Argentina, which is one of my favorite foreign countries.  I might go back there sometime, but I really got sick of traveling, flying, going through airports, and now I tend to prefer just to stay put.

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 19 June 2012 - 08:12 PM.

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#83    S2F

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:22 PM

View PostTheMcGuffin, on 19 June 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

I live in Florida now, where we have the heat plus the humidity, but I lived in Las Vegas for a few years and during the summer it was like walking into an oven.  I lived some in some places overseas that were just as hot--or worse.

I was in Las Vegas a few years ago to settle my father's estate.  He was out in Las Vegas for quite a while and then retired there, and during the time I was handling the estate I thought of staying myself.  I might even go back to Nevada sometime if I get tired of the humidity here.

At the time my father died, though, I was living in Argentina, which is one of my favorite foreign countries.  I might go back there sometime, but I really got sick of traveling, flying, going through airports, and now I tend to prefer just to stay put.

I lived down that way as well, North Carolina (stationed at Ft. Bragg, US Army). I've been to Florida a few times too and it's a different kind of heat when you add the humidity to it. I much prefer the drier heat of the desert, it's less uncomfortable to me than the 'southern summer' climate. ^_^

Anyway, sorry for off-topic ramble. :blush:

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#84    Hazzard

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:35 PM

Actually, S2F, it was quite refreshing to see a post with a little bit of reality in it.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#85    S2F

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:36 PM

View PostHazzard, on 19 June 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Actually, S2F, it was quite refreshing to see a post with a little bit of reality in it.

I like getting to know some of the posters around here and a little banter never hurts. I know McG and I disagree more often than not but I don't hold it against him or anyone else for that matter. There's quite a few individuals  from both sides of the fence that I wouldn't mind sharing a few beers with, yourself included. :tu:

"You want to discuss plausibility then you have to accept reality." -Mattshark

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#86    Hazzard

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 10:51 PM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 19 June 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

I like getting to know some of the posters around here and a little banter never hurts. I know McG and I disagree more often than not but I don't hold it against him or anyone else for that matter. There's quite a few individuals  from both sides of the fence that I wouldn't mind sharing a few beers with, yourself included. :tu:



Posted Image

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#87    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:10 PM

View Postquillius, on 19 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

not so sure guys, but yes possible. I just dont see kids spending $300 odd on contact lenses to pull of a prank, one that rarely gives them any real laugh at the time...i.e. 'they knock on door, ask to get let in, then walk away' dont see where the kids get their kicks here? especially as the 'scared/uneasy' feeling described by those reporting it comes about in the report and would/could be difficult to spot by the prankster, rendering prank unlikely IMO.

does anyone know if there have been any multiple sightings/events...i.e. more than one person sees them at the same time? I ask this because from what I have read it has been individuals only and this leaves the possibility of it being all  in the mind.

I am sure a five fingered discount would put these things in some kids price ranges ;) It is not all that regular, so an isolated incident of theft here and there seems pretty reasonable.

View Postquillius, on 19 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

one major difference is that the MIB always seemed to show up after a UFO sighting/event, and I dont think the same can be said about the BEKs. At least not from what I have read to date.


edit to add: apologies for derailing.......

No, not a lot of UFO connection, they do however both tend to be considered "old fashioned" in clothing, speech and style, vehicles as well where MIB is concerned, and both require an invitation to enter, and seen rather desperate for it. It might simply be a modern version of the tale, but BEK's strike me as more nefarious than MIB although witnesses purport feelings of fear or discomfort in their presence, which could also be exaggeration with time, interesting to se the two claims that have as much corroboration that they do, but corroboration always catches my eye.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#88    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:26 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 19 June 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Boo

I might be repeating myself to say that in 1997 I was in the process of raising 2 kids in high school, so the event in Phoenix was just a tiny blip in the news--just another UFO incident somewhere.  I never paid any particular attention to it then, and only became aware of it recently, courtesy of History or Nat Geo channels.

Yes, there are videos, and apparently quite a few more than the several you mention.  And there are at least hundreds if not thousands of people who saw it pass right over their heads.

It seems clear that there were 2 incidents--1 early in the evening witnessed and filmed by many including some TV stations, and the other around 10PM which appears likely to have been a USAF response to the earlier incident.  I have no doubt that they did send up some A-10s, and I'm sure the reasons for that are myriad and bureaucratic.

Yes, as Fife stated clearly, he saw the earlier event, and it was something not of this earth, or words to that effect.  Ditto all the others who watched the drawn out earlier event.

And of course you are right that nobody here has stated that "I think we are alone in the universe."  No prob.

Funny thing is, however, that many post AS IF we are alone in the universe, or AS IF it is utterly impossible for the events in Phoenix to be anything OTHER THAN mass psychosis, hypnosis.  They post as if the only and most obvious explanation is that the earlier event did not happen, or it was somehow some guys in A-10s went out early, or some other nonsensical explanation, SO LONG AS the explanation is that it simply could not be craft from another place or dimension.

Hi BR

I hope you do not mind the interruption.

You are not taking the hundreds or thousand of witnesses into account, you are saying they are right because Fife Symmington has a tale to tell. A politician up for re-election, no motivation? What did so many people in Phoenix say? It's an Alien!! You do realise that when Fife took his show to stage that he garnered all these votes immediately without a promise, without advertising, heck, without trying. Is that not good business sense? Is that not an advantageous situation? Would you not consider that "motive"?

Now a Pilot by the name of Rich Contry managed to identify the 8PM sighting as planes, individual planes. He gave his version of events and guess what, he was completely ignored. Not one UFO investigator wanted to talk to him. And he corroborates Mitch Stanley, now Mitch had a Dobsonian telescope that offered him a better view than any witness with a naked eye, in fact 43 times better. This gives him a significant advantage over any eyewitness that you have mentioned. And he saw planes, he mentioned this to his mother at the time, and a friend who happened to e with him at the time. But f you wish to look at the believers, Tim Ley has no idea what he saw, but he got a closer look at the lights by the sound of it, and he can testify and did, that he saw individual lights, they were not part of any single object.

But apart from that as you said yourself, there were hundreds in not thousands of witnesses. And you say that many took movies and photos. Can you present just one that definitely depicts one large triangle?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#89    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:28 PM

View PostSlave2Fate, on 19 June 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

I lived down that way as well, North Carolina (stationed at Ft. Bragg, US Army). I've been to Florida a few times too and it's a different kind of heat when you add the humidity to it. I much prefer the drier heat of the desert, it's less uncomfortable to me than the 'southern summer' climate. ^_^

Anyway, sorry for off-topic ramble. :blush:

You guys have to visit us :D

According to MODIS, the hottest place in 2004 and 2005 was the Lut desert of Iran, which reached 70.7 degrees C (159 degrees F). In 2003, Queensland, Australia, was the hottest place on Earth, with a temperature of 69.3 degrees C (157 degrees F).


LINK

:D

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#90    psyche101

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:33 PM

View PostWhyDontYouBeliEveMe, on 19 June 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

i m starting to love you babe ruth :D ... yeah most of the skeptic are really funny... they all say .. i have no duobt that aliens exist, but i need prove !  uhh? lols ...... yeah makes sense !


OK, where exactly does life exist? What planet, and is it intelligent? Fill us all in.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who




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