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Do Myths have any basis on Reality?


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#31    Quarky

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:28 AM

I think some may be mixing fairy tales and/or legends vs. mythology.
Folktales and legends are related-but are really not the same as myths.
I think that the more famous greek, roman & norse mythologies are probably based on real people or 'super people' and real events.......
.......can't prove it........just think it's possible.

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#32    debmedia

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:51 AM

now if we think like erich von daniken stated? like, some aliens came from other planet and tell us their story and show their power? and if we think that the people move around from one country to another and tell those stories, then it is not so true as the transport system was not so fast or advance i think. so, if we think that those aliens came to all those country which are more advance, they tell those stories to them by themselves. and that is why we can see the advance civilizations only have the similarities in myths like greek, egypt or roman. other less advance have less similarities. as they don't get those stories directly from those aliens.

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#33    debmedia

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:57 AM

anybody can help me by providing a list of websites or books in which I can find some great ancient stories or mythology on black magic or very interesting topics translated in English? I just want to read this kind of interesting ancient stories written in papyrus, scrolls etc and then translated to simple English. if anybody can provide any name of books on that topic it will be very helpful for me to know those dark or forgotten ancient stories. I love to read them.

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#34    Abramelin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:24 AM

View Postdebmedia, on 04 July 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

anybody can help me by providing a list of websites or books in which I can find some great ancient stories or mythology on black magic or very interesting topics translated in English? I just want to read this kind of interesting ancient stories written in papyrus, scrolls etc and then translated to simple English. if anybody can provide any name of books on that topic it will be very helpful for me to know those dark or forgotten ancient stories. I love to read them.

Not a list, just one book:


The Leyden Papyrus: An Egyptian Magical Book (1904)

http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/0486229947

Part of it is online:

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

You can download it here:

Dover Publications | 1974 | ISBN: 0486229947 | 40 pages | PDF | 1,1 MB
The translation of crucial 3rd-century A.D. manuscript of Egyptian magic, medicine. 15-foot roll of papyrus reveals spells, incantations, aphrodisiacs, invoking various gods. Probably compilation of practicing Egyptian sorcerer. Transliteration of demotic included
.

http://www.ebooksdow...ok-BI14193.html


I once bought the book in a second-hand bookshop.

Don't ask me why, lol.

====

A bit extra info (although I doubt you will use it) :

The Demotic Magical Papyrus of London and Leiden (1904)

http://archive.org/d...calpa03grifuoft


#35    Abramelin

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:32 AM

And of course the book that 'I' wrote when I was a lot younger, lol:

The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage

http://www.sacred-te...m/abr/index.htm


You can read about the book and its history here:

http://en.wikipedia....ok_of_Abramelin


.

Edited by Abramelin, 04 July 2012 - 08:35 AM.


#36    Arbitran

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:40 AM

View Postdebmedia, on 04 July 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

now if we think like erich von daniken stated? like, some aliens came from other planet and tell us their story and show their power? and if we think that the people move around from one country to another and tell those stories, then it is not so true as the transport system was not so fast or advance i think. so, if we think that those aliens came to all those country which are more advance, they tell those stories to them by themselves. and that is why we can see the advance civilizations only have the similarities in myths like greek, egypt or roman. other less advance have less similarities. as they don't get those stories directly from those aliens.

I am not a devotee of Von Daniken, but personally, I do think that some myths might have originated as records of contact with extraterrestrial beings. Even the late Carl Sagan has previously expressed that this is a tantalizing possibility. At the very least, I am highly intrigued that the accounts given in the Vedas and the Sanskrit literatures of ancient India speak of celestial beings, and specify stars and planets in the cosmos from whence these beings hailed. They could be fictional, of course, but at the very, very least the authors of these accounts would require a degree of knowledge and sophistication advanced enough to comprehend and write about such things. I am of the opinion that they are truthful, for the most part at least. Nobody else need subscribe to this particular view, but the accounts will stand or fall on their own merits, and I for one have been convinced sufficiently of their veracity.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#37    debmedia

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:07 AM

Abramelin thanks a lot. if any story there on those magic then also tell me.[/size][/b]

Edited by debmedia, 04 July 2012 - 10:13 AM.

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#38    The Puzzler

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:13 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 04 July 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

And of course the book that 'I' wrote when I was a lot younger, lol:

The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage

http://www.sacred-te...m/abr/index.htm


You can read about the book and its history here:

http://en.wikipedia....ok_of_Abramelin


.

Interesting.

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#39    The Puzzler

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

View Postdebmedia, on 04 July 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

now if we think like erich von daniken stated? like, some aliens came from other planet and tell us their story and show their power? and if we think that the people move around from one country to another and tell those stories, then it is not so true as the transport system was not so fast or advance i think. so, if we think that those aliens came to all those country which are more advance, they tell those stories to them by themselves. and that is why we can see the advance civilizations only have the similarities in myths like greek, egypt or roman. other less advance have less similarities. as they don't get those stories directly from those aliens.
It can take thousands of years for the myths to travel around, people walked and long distances are easily walked in a matter of months and years. I really don't think aliens need be the bringers of 'those stories' imo.

Diodorus Siculus[2] claims that Belus founded a colony on the river Euphrates, and appointed the priests-astrologers whom the Babylonians call Chaldeans who like the priests of Egypt are exempt from taxation and other service to the state.
http://en.wikipedia....Belus_(Egyptian)

There's an interesting theory out there by Stan Gooch, I have a topic on it that might interest you, about how Neanderthals may have first began magic and the stories concerning astrology etc, it was adapted by modern man but never really understood.
Gooch argued that Neanderthals were the original creators, the innovators, of high culture, of symbolic values and religious sensibilities, which early modern humans (Cro-Magnons) copied and adopted without genuine understanding. Neanderthal culture was not a civilisation of high technologies, but one of the mind and spirit that survives today in our beliefs, myths, folklore, and religious practices.

http://www.unexplain...topic=205348= stan  gooch&st=0

Edited by The Puzzler, 04 July 2012 - 10:27 AM.

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#40    The Puzzler

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 11:29 AM

I also just found this recent article:


When archaeologists tried out a new technique to determine the age of Spain's most famous Paleolithic cave paintings, they were surprised to discover that the paintings were thousands of years older than previously thought — so old that it's conceivable they were painted by Neanderthals.

http://cosmiclog.msn...hals-do-it?lite

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#41    Harte

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 02:57 AM

View PostArbitran, on 04 July 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I am not a devotee of Von Daniken, but personally, I do think that some myths might have originated as records of contact with extraterrestrial beings. Even the late Carl Sagan has previously expressed that this is a tantalizing possibility.
It IS a tantalizing possibility.

However, Sagan said this particularly about Oannes, and only because he was ignorant on that particular subject. Likely due to his reliance on the story told by Berossus, who actually had no idea what he was talking about.

Oannes, according to Berossus, was half fish. His story was based on something he had never read in its original form.  However, we do today have the original story of "Oannes."
He was Adapa, originally a mortal fisherman that was later elevated to a holy status (as an Apkallu) after he died.

Not even close to extraterrestrial.

Sagan, like Linus Pauling, should have stuck to science.  At least in Sagan's case, his error isn't as embarrasing as Pauling's.

Harte

Edited to add: Thank you Marduk!

Edited by Harte, 06 July 2012 - 02:58 AM.

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#42    Arbitran

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:12 PM

View PostHarte, on 06 July 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

It IS a tantalizing possibility.

However, Sagan said this particularly about Oannes, and only because he was ignorant on that particular subject. Likely due to his reliance on the story told by Berossus, who actually had no idea what he was talking about.

Oannes, according to Berossus, was half fish. His story was based on something he had never read in its original form.  However, we do today have the original story of "Oannes."
He was Adapa, originally a mortal fisherman that was later elevated to a holy status (as an Apkallu) after he died.

Not even close to extraterrestrial.

Sagan, like Linus Pauling, should have stuck to science.  At least in Sagan's case, his error isn't as embarrasing as Pauling's.

Harte

Edited to add: Thank you Marduk!

Well-noted.

Try to realize it's all within yourself / No-one else can make you change / And to see you're really only very small / And life flows on within you and without you. / We were talking about the love that's gone so cold and the people / Who gain the world and lose their soul / They don't know they can't see are you one of them? / When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind / Is waiting there / And the time will come / when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you. ~ George Harrison

#43    lightly

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:15 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 04 July 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I also just found this recent article:


When archaeologists tried out a new technique to determine the age of Spain's most famous Paleolithic cave paintings, they were surprised to discover that the paintings were thousands of years older than previously thought — so old that it's conceivable they were painted by Neanderthals.

http://cosmiclog.msn...hals-do-it?lite
  Cool puzz.      .. This might be a silly thought.. BUT,  Neanderthal territory (which keeps expanding by discovery) seems to be a pretty close match to Dolmen territory?    I know, Neanderthal are supposed to have died out Before the estimated age of most dolmen.. but .. it just makes me wonder.   Maybe "we' just kept up the tradition.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#44    The_Spartan

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:07 PM

Most of the ancient myths/stories/recordings of events were oral.
Humans on their migrations assimilate other cultures or assimilate into other cultures. One party's Oral history mixes with another party's oral history.
Myths began as human efforts for explaining events/occurances, natural and phyiscal.

The Sun is not a God/Divine Being, but a naturally occuring star.
For ancient Humans the sun was something they couldnt comprehend. It rose in the east and sets in the west. Ancient people had no ida about the solar centric system or the rotation of the planets or revolutions of the planets. So they concote a story about the Sun as a divine being who lives above us who travels from east to west and sleeps at night. similarly for the night, they made up the story about moon  being another dvine being, and made other stories about the phases of the moon, waxing and waning of the moon etc.
As oral histories mingle, they are embellished. the Sun rode in chariots, pulled by divine horses and the lot.

this is just an exmaple of how a myth comes into existence and how a myth grows.

Myths about specific persons may have basis on actual events and persons, but are embellished.  for example about Daedelus and Icarus. The reality could have been, they were nuts or eccentric inventors or plain inventors who thought they could fly like the birds. the son would have leaped off a tall mountain and for a moment to those below he was flying, but in fact falling to his death. and after his death, a myth grows about a a man who tired to fly. This myth wouldnt have been at all a greek myth, but a myth that the greeks picked up in their migrations/assimilations of other cultures.

Edited by The_Spartan, 07 July 2012 - 02:09 PM.

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#45    whitegandalf

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:26 AM

View Postdebmedia, on 02 July 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

can anybody give any example comparing a myth with reality? like, one i can tell you, if you read norse mythology, you can get that they belived in multi planet. as they thought there are 9 world. i wonder, how they even think about multi planets when no telescope must found. if there is no advance science, how all myths tells us the process of creation so similar to one we know scientifically?

Actually the vikings had developed the technology for telescopes, and some, what are belived to be telescope leanses, have been found. The vikings had many unuiqe technologies and inventions long before the rest of the world. And much more are yet to be discovered.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ture/702478.stm





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