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Why I traced holy water to leaky drain

miracles india sanal edamaruku

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#1    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:53 PM

New Scientist said:


Indian rationalist Sanal Edamaruku faces a Catholic backlash after insisting that the "holy" water dripping from a statue of Christ came from a leaky drain

What was the so-called "miracle" you recently investigated in Mumbai?
The priest and the very active Catholic laity organisations associated with the Our Lady of Velankanni church in Mumbai were promoting the idea that water dripping from the feet of a statue of Jesus was a sign from God. Hundreds of believers flocked to the dripping cross, collecting and consuming "holy" drainage water that they believed would cure all ailments.

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#2    Dash--

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:20 PM

Good post.Crazy that this guy may have to go to trial for saving people from drinking sewage water.
I'd be interested to hear the court's ruling on this case.

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#3    questionmark

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:00 PM

View PostDash--, on 04 July 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Good post.Crazy that this guy may have to go to trial for saving people from drinking sewage water.
I'd be interested to hear the court's ruling on this case.

Maybe the miracle is in reality that nobody got sick so far :devil:

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#4    Jessica Christ

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:36 AM

This issue is several months old now.

There is a discrepancy between what the New Scientist published on July 3 and what church officials and even what Sanal Edamaruku was quoted as saying on a blog published April 22.

New Scientist claims Sanal Edamaruku is being charged for exposing the water as being a leak and not from a miracle.

That seems cut and dry but is at odds with what was stated in April.

In April the Catholic priests took offense because Sanal Edamaruku claimed it was a moneymaking business on the Catholic priests' part.

So the offense here that the church felt was not "the miracle is false" but to claim "they have a moneymaking racket going on."

There is some history particular to Our Lady of Velankanni church. In 2009 the current Father Augustine Palett took over after the parishioners claimed their previous priest was embezzling donations. So it is understandable that they are very sensitive to any claims that they are taking in any money unaccounted as the previous father did so with donations.

Also for any occurrence or event to be considered an official miracle by the church it has to undergo a rigorous process. So there will be parishioners and lay people who claim there are miracles when the church itself does not consider them. This on other occasions lead to folk saints where they are venerated by the people but not sanctioned by the church.

So by understanding the above two paragraphs we can see how the church views things, different than the skeptic who instantly charges and claims the church is ripping people off by a fake miracle. The church was not accepting money and didn't consider it a miracle but there is no stopping the people (a problem indeed that leads to confusion).

This are the priests' words in April:

Quote

“The church has not made any pronouncement on it. There is a lengthy scientific process that has to be undergone before any official pronouncement is made. It is quite possible that the happening may have a totally natural explanation,” Auxiliary Bishop Agnelo Gracias of Bombay Archdiocese told ucanews.com.

“We have never said it was a miracle though the devotees came to pray. But it was sad that it was claimed to be a money-making scam as not a single penny was collected and even those insisting on making donations were told to feed the poor,” said Father Augustine Palett, parish priest of Our Lady of Velankanni Church under whose jurisdiction the event occurred.

http://www.tkayala.c...water-from.html

This is the point of contention they have with Sanal Edamaruku:

Quote

The bishop said they resented Edamaruku’s “loose remarks” that the incident was created by priests to make money and that the Catholics worship images and the pope is against science.

http://www.tkayala.c...water-from.html

Finally what Sanal Edmaruku said there:

Quote

”I don’t care if I am arrested. I will not even appeal for bail,” said Edamaruku, who was born to a Christian father and a Hindu mother but claims to be an atheist.

http://www.tkayala.c...water-from.html

Is not the same thing that he said here:

Quote

If it comes to a trial, I have nothing to fear. I would welcome the opportunity to throw some light on the role that the Catholic church played and is still playing today, here in India. The possibility of arrest is threatening, however.

http://www.newscient...eaky-drain.html

Seems odd that his demeanor changed depending on the audience, to the Indian press he doesn't care, to us he becomes intimidated by the Church. We naturally feel sympathy. On some level that is not rationalism but emotional manipulation. Maybe he just feels different about it now...

Doubtful it goes to trial but if it does it might not be the exposition of the miracle they will ask about since the church themselves never claimed it was a miracle, people just thought that as they always do even as the church says, "no, no, we haven't considered it a miracle", but it will be over his claims that they were making money off of it.

It seems understandable that you would have a rationalist, he hears about the miracle, instantly says to himself, "This is not a miracle, they must know and be making money off of it from poor people who don't know better, aha!"

So when he proves it he repeats, "This is not a miracle, they must know and be making money off of it from poor people who don't know better, aha!"

Then when the church takes offense he believes, "They are taking offense because I exposed their miracle."

When the church never considered it a miracle, never took anyone's money but insisted if you want to give money give it to the poor not us, and when the church who is already sensitive over the embezzling of money by the former priest, the new father is of course going to be offended but not over the miracle but the claim they were making money.

Edited by Lookitisoneofthosepeople, 09 July 2012 - 06:15 AM.


#5    Jessica Christ

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:22 AM

These are articles regarding the groups behind filing the complaint and some more insight into the case.

Quote

Those invoking it against him said they were offended by Mr. Edamaruku’s comments that clergy at Velankanni Church in Mumbai were using the sight of water dripping from the feet of a Christ statue to make money from visiting pilgrims.

The Catholic Secular Forum filed a first information report with the police in Mumbai, while the Association of Concerned Catholics and Maharashtra Christian Youth Forum also objected to Mr. Edamaruku’s claims. The groups also accuse Mr. Edamaruku of alleging the Catholic Church practises idolatry.

“They want to avenge and put me in prison,” said Mr. Edamaruku, who fears he could be arrested immediately if he returns to Mumbai.

The Catholic Bishop of Mumbai Agnelo Gracias has called on Mr. Edamaruku to apologize for “hurting” the Catholic community and said that no money had been collected at the shrine.

In a letter to The Examiner, a Catholic Newsletter, the bishop said he did not believe the water to be a miracle. “But to make that an occasion to hurl false allegations against the Christian community and its leaders is quite another matter,” Bishop Agnelo wrote.

Although the groups who have taken the cases against Mr. Edamaruku do not represent the bishop, he appeared to praise them for their actions. “We can rejoice that there are some people who have the courage to stand up when the attempts are made to besmirch the name of the Catholic community.”

Father Nigel Barrett, coordinator of the Catholic Communications Centre in Mumbai, said that the miracle had not yet been officially ascertained because Velankanni Church had not referred the matter to the bishop for the proper process of verification to take place.

http://blogs.wsj.com...blasphemy-spat/

Quote

In what seems to be the epilogue to the ‘miracle water’ that seeped out of a cross near Dias Chawl in Irla, Vile Parle (west) on March 5, two FIRs have been lodged in MIDC and Juhu police stations against 50 year-old Sanal Edamaruku, president of the Indian Rationalists Association for calling the incident a money-making racket on a TV channel early last month.

While Joseph Dias, general secretary, Catholic Secular Forum (CSF) was the first to file the FIR at MIDC police station, Andheri (w), Agnelo Fernandes, president of Maharashtra Christian Youth Forum, filed the FIR in Juhu Police station. Both FIRs ,filed on April 10, have been lodged under Section 295, which charges a person for deliberately hurting religious feelings and attempting malicious acts intended to outrage the religious sentiments of any class or community. Sunday Mid Day has a copy of both the FIRs. “We never said it was a miracle, though devotees came to pray and atone for their sins. It was sad that it was claimed to be a money-making scam. Not a single penny was collected and even those who insisting on making donations, were told to feed the poor,” said Augustine Palett, Parish Priest, Velankanni Church, Irla.

Dias also alleged that Edamaruku’s derogatory statements regarding the Pope, Catholic Church and priests were uncalled for. “Edamaruku said that the dripping cross was created by priests as a gimmick to collect money and told viewers to watch the tamasha, but not to make any donations. He said that the Church was anti-science and executed such tricks to fool people,” alleged Dias. Richard Mascarenhas, member of Parish Pastor Council and Collin Gomes, founder member of Save St John Baptist Church committee, Amboli said, “Edamaruku will either have to apologise or physically prove his point.”

On March 10, Edamaruku visited the church to investigate the miracle. “Water from Jesus’s feet was being diluted and distributed among followers. They were telling the devotees that the water had medicinal remedies and would heal all their ailments. Even photographs with water dripping off the statue’s feet were being circulated,” said Edamaruku, who is currently in Delhi. This comment infuriated the Christian community. “They said they would file FIRs against me in different police stations and I would not be able to see sunlight for the next 10 days,” he confirmed.

According to former IPS officer and lawyer, YP Singh, the cases have not been filed on merit. “Often, cops are compelled to file the case to quell the discontentment of a community and avoid a law and order situation. It is not applicable to someone who expresses his opinion, based on scientific rationalisation,” said Singh. According to senior police inspector Suresh Hujbal, the accused is likely to be summoned to record a statement.

http://www.mid-day.c...ater-a-scam.htm

Also none should have the impression the police are on the side of the Catholic groups and out to get him. They are simply doing their job, by Indian law, holding him without bail is so others could not harm him since he offended many, so Mr. Edamaruku's flight to Helsinki to avoid being arrested is not a human rights issue as some are portraying it where the country is run by religious zealots out to silence him. Other citizens, just as he is one, are both debating but clearly if the bishop himself does not consider it a miracle yet the charge by Mr. Edamaruku is that the church is claiming it is, there is a disconnect.

Edited by Lookitisoneofthosepeople, 09 July 2012 - 06:28 AM.


#6    GreenmansGod

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 11:19 PM

My experience with the press is they never get anything right.  I would be interested in how it turns out, though.

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