3292 replies to this topic

[DONTEATUS]

Keep on his Six Skyeagle ! See Ya friend !

[Jackofalltrades]

It is very suprising how many people DO NOT want to know the truth (or at least seems that way) and how many people are willing to accept the government's version of thing's even though they have and still do withold evidence that could clarify the situation, one way or another.... (it seem's to me they (the government) are hiding something or the real event's that transpired that day)

Have none of You thought of why the crime scene's of that day was cleared up so quickly ?

If that was any other crime scene, it would still be intact until the investigation was 100% complete....

Fact - there was and still is some witnesses that heard explosion's on that day in question, they include Firemen/crew, Police officer's, Media and survivors and various other people that was close to the building's at the time

If the government is NOT hiding anything, then WHY are they NOT releasing video evidence that they have from all the video camera's present at the pentagon ??? I believe there is approx 85 video camera's in all  and yet all we have as evidence is a few second's on a video that just show's the explosion/impact and nothing else

The pentagon is one of if not the most secure building on this planet, and all we have is a few second's of video footage ???  (WTF ?)

They state it is in National Security for the reason why they will not disclose any other video evidence, they also state that the video's do not offer any further evidence to what happened (as far as I am aware)

How much of a security threat can video footage of the outside space/car park etc be to the US government ??? if it was inside video footage of the Pentagon then I could understand their concern's, BUT I cannot and do not understand their concern's of the outside space/car park

Would it not be in the government's interest and everyone else's interests to put the event's of 9/11 to rest and disclose as much evidence as they have if not all of the evidence ???



The following is part of a post I made on another topic....


"There are three possibilities that I believe can be or possibly is the truth in the 9/11 attack's....

One

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it (to give them an excuse to go on the war path ?)


Two

The Government knew that the attack (facilitated by Al-Qaeda) was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen, but did nothing to stop it, PLUS the government prepared for it and facilitated the demise of building 7 (to hide various document's ? to make it look worse than what it is ? to cause more hatred for terrorism/terrorist's ?)


Three


The Government knew that the attack was taking place and they also knew when it was going to happen because THEY or the CIA facilitated the whole thing

Whether that be with the help of AlQaeda or not is another matter


If Nothing else, primarily ALL the INNOCENT people that died in the 9/11 attack's and their families, and also people that knew them, and also EVERY American citizen deserve's the truth

And also ALL the INNOCENT people that have died their families, and also people that knew them, in Iraq and Afghanistan due to the "War on Terror" also deserve the truth

And I dont know about You, but I would like to know the truth....."

[skyeagle409]

Jackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

It is very suprising how many people DO NOT want to know the truth (or at least seems that way) and how many people are willing to accept the government's version of thing's even though they have and still do withold evidence that could clarify the situation, one way or another.... (it seem's to me they (the government) are hiding something or the real event's that transpired that day)

Have none of You thought of why the crime scene's of that day was cleared up so quickly ?

I wouldn't say that quickly, but at the Fresh Kills landfill, steel from the WTC buildings were examined.

Quote

Fact - there was and still is some witnesses that heard explosion's on that day in question, they include Firemen/crew, Police officer's, Media and survivors and various other people that was close to the building's at the time

Fact: A fireman later reported that the sounds they believed were explosions were actually from elevators and nothing to do with explosives.

Quote

If the government is NOT hiding anything, then WHY are they NOT releasing video evidence that they have from all the video camera's present at the pentagon ???

I recognized the vertical stabilizer of a B-757 in an image taken from one of the videos because the B-757 is one of my favorite aircraft and has been from many years so I knew what to look for, but what difference would that have made if more videos were revealed. We have  videos of American 11 striking WTC1 and United 175 striking WC2 and yet, we have 9/11 conspiracist claiming that no aircraft were involved or that that the airliners were switched and flown under remote control without accounting for  the original airframe and passengers of those airliners. In other words, we have videos to those two flights and yet 9/11 conspiracist continued to concoct false stories and distort facts and evidence.

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[Anonymous User]

<<Posting here so additional posts in this thread will show up in my notification box.>>

[Jackofalltrades]

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

I wouldn't say that quickly, but at the Fresh Kills landfill, steel from the WTC buildings were examined.

As I stated, "If that was any other crime scene, it would still be intact until the investigation was 100% complete...."

How much metal was scrapped, turned into various objects and also used in building a warship while the investigation was on going ?

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Fact: A fireman later reported that the sounds they believed were explosions were actually from elevators and nothing to do with explosives.

That is the first I have heard such a story, I will take Your word for it until I look into it further....

That still DOES NOT explain all the other people, including Police officer's, Media and survivors and various other people that was close to the building's at the time or even other Fire men/crew, as just because one fireman states that it was possibly due to the elevator's does NOT mean there was no explosive's used....

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

I recognized the vertical stabilizer of a B-757 in an image taken from one of the videos because the B-757 is one of my favorite aircraft and has been from many years so I knew what to look for, but what difference would that have made if more videos were revealed. We have  videos of American 11 striking WTC1 and United 175 striking WC2 and yet, we have 9/11 conspiracist claiming that no aircraft were involved or that that the airliners were switched and flown under remote control without accounting for  the original airframe and passengers of those airliners. In other words, we have videos to those two flights and yet 9/11 conspiracist continued to concoct false stories and distort facts and evidence.

The difference would be that we would have a more complete picture of what transpired that day..... and NOT just have to take the governments word for what transpired that day.....

Also that is my point, while there was 85 video camera's around the Pentagon, there is nothing but a few seconds of video we have more video footage of the WTC tower's being hit than we do of the Pentagon being hit even though there are more camera's at the Pentagon (as far as I am aware) .... WTF is up with that ???

You FAIL to realise that it is NOT just CT's that "concoct false stories and distort facts and evidence"....  the government also "concoct false stories and distort facts and evidence"  to suit their own agenda/s

[Q24]

Jackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

As I stated, "If that was any other crime scene, it would still be intact until the investigation was 100% complete...."

How much metal was scrapped, turned into various objects and also used in building a warship while the investigation was on going ?

Exactly, the metal was being scrapped before the voluntary (not ‘official’ which did not occur til much later) investigators got on site.  What they discovered were elements of heavily melted/corroded/thinned steel which they believed may have caused the collapse – this is documented in video footage, photographs and within the initial FEMA report.  Eventually only three core columns from the impact zones were recovered.  There were another ten columns from the impact zones marked by the voluntary engineers as ‘of interest’ and for saving but these were ‘accidently’ scrapped in the clear up operation before further analysis could take place.  In all the minimal physical evidence saved shows little, though except for those isolated areas of severe corrosion, the temperatures found in the steel do not support the official impact and fire collapse theory.

[skyeagle409]

Jackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

As I stated, "If that was any other crime scene, it would still be intact until the investigation was 100% complete...."

We already know why the WTC buildings collapsed and what caused the fires in the first place, so it doesn't take s Sherlock Holmes to figure out what happened.

Quote

How much metal was scrapped, turned into various objects and also used in building a warship while the investigation was on going ?

Steel was examined at the Fresh Kills landfill and no evidence of explosives were found.

Quote

That still DOES NOT explain all the other people, including Police officer's, Media and survivors and various other people that was close to the building's at the time or even other Fire men/crew, as just because one fireman states that it was possibly due to the elevator's does NOT mean there was no explosive's used....

They only heard sounds which they perceived were explosions but that doesn't mean that explosives were responsible for those sounds. I posted where during a storm, people were reporting hearing sounds like explosions when in fact, the sounds they heard were buildings breaking up. I also posted a video of a crane as it collapse to show that when steel fail, they can create sounds similar to explosions.

Quote

Also that is my point, while there was 85 video camera's around the Pentagon, there is nothing but a few seconds of video we have more video footage of the WTC tower's being hit than we do of the Pentagon being hit even though there are more camera's at the Pentagon (as far as I am aware) .... WTF is up with that ???

It is not prudent for the Pentagon to reveal the capabilities of its surveillance systems on the Internet and videos are not required to determine what occurred at that Pentagon and in many case, videos were not available in many aircraft incidents yet there were other means available to determine what happened in those cases.

Quote

You FAIL to realise that it is NOT just CT's that "concoct false stories and distort facts and evidence"....

9/11 conspiracist are guilty for fomenting a number of false stories, and distorting facts and evidence.

Quote

...the government also "concoct false stories and distort facts and evidence"  to suit their own agenda/s

But, facts and physical evidence support the government version of events, not those of 9/11 conspiracist, and remember, many of those backing the government are not government employees nor government agencies. For an example, American Airlines and United Airlines are not government agencies yet they confirmed the loss of American 11, American 77,  United 93, and United 175 and demolition experts roaming in the rubble of the WTC buildings found no evidence of explosives.

[skyeagle409]

Q24, on 04 October 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Exactly, the metal was being scrapped before the voluntary (not ‘official’ which did not occur til much later) investigators got on site

Investigators found no evidence at the Fresh Kills landfill that explosives were used or thermite cutting nor blast effects on the steel columns. In addition:

[skyeagle409]

Fresh Kills Landfill Investigation: No Evidence of Explosives nor Thermite Cutting

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[Jackofalltrades]

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

We already know why the WTC buildings collapsed and what caused the fires in the first place, so it doesn't take s Sherlock Holmes to figure out what happened.

How can You state that we already know what caused the WTC building's to collapse, WITHOUT seeing all the evidence ?

How can You say that we already know what caused the fire's when (in my opinion) the jetfuel that was in the plane's at the time of impact had possibly exploded/burnt up on impact ?

It may explain the fire's in that particular part of the building where the plane's hit but NOT the various other fire's.....

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

Steel was examined at the Fresh Kills landfill and no evidence of explosives were found.

ALL of the steel/evidence from the WTC site ???????

NO ???

Then the entire evidence was NOT investigated fully, and there is NO possible way that anyone can state that explosive's was not used when the complete evidence was NOT investigated fully

If that was any other crime scene and it was handled in the way 9/11 was handled there would have been people that would lose their job's, at the very least

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

They only heard sounds which they perceived were explosions but that doesn't mean that explosives were responsible for those sounds. I posted where during a storm, people were reporting hearing sounds like explosions when in fact, the sounds they heard were buildings breaking up. I also posted a video of a crane as it collapse to show that when steel fail, they can create sounds similar to explosions.

Admittedly that some sound's can be deceiving to some people, BUT for the amount of witnesses to say they heard the exact same thing, I believe that they did in fact hear what they said they heard and not what You are trying to make it out to be
What make's You think that fire men, Police and various other people and professional's do not know the difference between explosion's and what You state it is ???

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

It is not prudent for the Pentagon to reveal the capabilities of its surveillance systems on the Internet and videos are not required to determine what occurred at that Pentagon and in many case, videos were not available in many aircraft incidents yet there were other means available to determine what happened in those cases.

I never said the pentagon has to disclose it's capabilities of its surveillance systems on the Internet.....

And YES IT IS prudent for the pentagon to release ALL video evidence of that day, not just a few second's of footage....

How else is anyone going to investigate fully what happened, with any or a majority of the evidence missing ???
The video footage they have, may indeed not have anything that is relevent to the attack on them but why not disclose the video footage and let the people decide for themselve's if that is the case ???

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

9/11 conspiracist are guilty for fomenting a number of false stories, and distorting facts and evidence.

Admittedly there may be SOME CT's that manipulate the fact's and evidence or make up false stories, BUT that DOES NOT mean that all CT's do such a thing, that to me is being prejudiced if You state that all CT's do such a thing....

Also You seem to be able to believe that CT's do those thing's without realising or believing  that Your very own government does the EXACT same thing's when they need to or when it suit's them and their own agenda's

Just because one person may have done something it DOES NOT mean that any one else has done the same or similiar thing, if someone went out and killed someone then does that also mean that someone else is guilty of the same or similiar crime ? NO it does not

There is ONE word for that..... BIASED

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

But, facts and physical evidence support the government version of events, not those of 9/11 conspiracist, and remember, many of those backing the government are not government employees nor government agencies. For an example, American Airlines and United Airlines are not government agencies yet they confirmed the loss of American 11, American 77,  United 93, and United 175 and demolition experts roaming in the rubble of the WTC buildings found no evidence of explosives.

Facts and physical evidence support the government version of events because it is the government that is doing the investigating.....

Facts and physical evidence that could have been and possibly was or has been manipulated, misplaced (either accidently or on purpose) by the government.... CT's had nothing to do with that

You seem to lay the blame on CT's quite a lot, are CT's responsible for various other thing's also, that is beyond their control ???

Are CT's responsible for Operation Northwoods and various other government operation's ???

It seem's to me that no matter what the evidence You will never admit or believe anything other than what You or the government have already stated or believe

Edited by Jackofalltrades, 04 October 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[skyeagle409]

Jackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

How can You state that we already know what caused the WTC building's to collapse, WITHOUT seeing all the evidence ?

There is no evidence of bomb explosions on video, audio, nor evident in the rubble of he WTC buildings and no explosions were detected by monitors in the area either, so the question is: Who made up the tale that explosives were used when there was no evidence of explosvies in the first place?

Quote

How can You say that we already know what caused the fire's when (in my opinion) the jetfuel that was in the plane's at the time of impact had possibly exploded/burnt up on impact ?

I guess you were unaware that the impacts were responsible for the fires in the first place.

Quote

It may explain the fire's in that particular part of the building where the plane's hit but NOT the various other fire's.....

What about the elevator shafts?

Quote

Are CT's responsible for Operation Northwoods and various other government operation's ???

If you are trying to pin an 'Operation Northwoods'-like operation in regards to the 9/11 attacks, it won't work. There was no way for the government to plan and carry out such an attack and not get caught. How long did it take to reveal the Watergate scandal?

And remember, countries around the world were warning the United States before the 9/11 attacks that foreign terrorist were planning to use aircraft as weapons in their planned attack on America.

Quote

Facts and physical evidence that could have been and possibly was or has been manipulated, misplaced (either accidently or on purpose) by the government.... CT's had nothing to do with that

Demolition experts in the area found no evidence of explosives and they were not government agencies either.

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[frenat]

Thomas J, on 04 October 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

<<Posting here so additional posts in this thread will show up in my notification box.>>

That's what the "follow this thread" button at the top of every page is for.

[Jackofalltrades]

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

There is no evidence of bomb explosions on video, audio, nor evident in the rubble of he WTC buildings and no explosions were detected by monitors in the area either, so the question is: Who made up the tale that explosives were used when there was no evidence of explosvies in the first place?

There is no evidence that there was no bomb explosions  either.... (as far as I am aware)

However, there IS witnesses that state they heard explosion's, are You calling those witnesses liar's ???

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

I guess you were unaware that the impacts were responsible for the fires in the first place.

I never stated that I was unaware of that being the reason for the fire's in the first place, and  I would appreciate it if You never tried making out that I did or that I am unaware of such a thing,

Here is what I stated in my previous post

"How can You state that we already know what caused the WTC building's to collapse, WITHOUT seeing all the evidence ?

How can You say that we already know what caused the fire's when (in my opinion) the jetfuel that was in the plane's at the time of impact had possibly exploded/burnt up on impact ?

It may explain the fire's in that particular part of the building where the plane's hit but NOT the various other fire's....."

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

What about the elevator shafts?

What about them ?

And yes I know that fire can travel using the elevator shaft's as a route...

But saying that it does not mean that happened in the case of 9/11 in the WTC building's

skyeagle409, on 04 October 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

If you are trying to pin an 'Operation Northwoods'-like operation in regards to the 9/11 attacks, it won't work. There was no way for the government to plan and carry out such an attack and not get caught. How long did it take to reveal the Watergate scandal?

Did it really seem like I am trying to pin a Operation Northwoods style operation to the 9/11 attack's ???

When I was simply asking You a question, one that You still have NOT answered, which is as follow's  (I have included that part of the post that You quoted in it's entirety, because You have missed out various other bit's too)

"
Facts and physical evidence support the government version of events because it is the government that is doing the investigating.....

Facts and physical evidence that could have been and possibly was or has been manipulated, misplaced (either accidently or on purpose) by the government.... CT's had nothing to do with that

You seem to lay the blame on CT's quite a lot, are CT's responsible for various other thing's also, that is beyond their control ???

Are CT's responsible for Operation Northwoods and various other government operation's ???

It seem's to me that no matter what the evidence You will never admit or believe anything other than what You or the government have already stated or believe "


I would really appreciate it if You actually answered my question's and NOT just pick and choose what You will or will not answer and trying to twist my word's around to suit Your own agenda, or trying to belittle me (that is what it does seem like in my opinion)

Why dont You actually answer question's and do research on the subject rather than trying to do such a thing ?

Are You scared that You may actually find out the truth ?

[skyeagle409]

Jackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

What make's You think that fire men, Police and various other people and professional's do not know the difference between explosion's and what You state it is ???

Because I have heard and seen real bomb explosions in war and I did not see a shred of evidence of bomb explosions in any of the WTC videos.

[skyeagle409]

Jackofalltrades, on 04 October 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

There is no evidence that there was no bomb explosions  either.... (as far as I am aware) However, there IS witnesses that state they heard explosion's, are You calling those witnesses liar's ???

In the case of William Rodriquez, who later changed his story to explosions from the sound of  rumblings, yes, because he got caught changing his story in midstream. In the case of others, they were simply mistaken.

Quote

"How can You state that we already know what caused the WTC building's to collapse, WITHOUT seeing all the evidence ?

Police officers were reporting that the building was buckling and in danger of collapse and shortly afterward, the building buckled even more just as it began to collapse. That is a clear indication of imminent heat-induced structural failure.

Quote

How can You say that we already know what caused the fire's when (in my opinion) the jetfuel that was in the plane's at the time of impact had possibly exploded/burnt up on impact ?

What do you think initiated the fires in the WTC buildings? What caused this fire after a small airplane impacted this building?

Edited by skyeagle409, 04 October 2012 - 07:46 PM.