Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 8 votes

911 Pentagon Video Footage


  • Please log in to reply
3292 replies to this topic

#2806    turbonium

turbonium

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,344 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2005

Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:14 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 03 November 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Notable Retractions

New Mexico demolitions expert Van Romero said on the day of the attack that he believed the building collapses were "too methodical" to have been a result of the collisions, and that he thought "there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse."

His remarks were published in the Albuquerque Journal  Ten days later the same newspaper printed a retraction, in which Romero is quoted as saying "Certainly the fire is what caused the building to fail."

Fire is the much healthier option to go with, which he quickly found out.

He spoke the truth at first. As a demo expert, he knew it was a CD. He also noted a few of the telltale signs of a CD,

So ten days later, he says fire is "certainly" the cause of collapse?

His retraction was done in fear, under duress. A suicidal mistake that must be corrected. And so he changed his story to fit.

If he just said other causes than CD are possible, at least he'd make sense. But to say it's "certainly" fire, before any investigation has started, is so obviously contrived to fit in with the official 9/11 'script'.

He doesn't give reasons why fire is the cause  but he is certain it was fire anyway.  

Sheesh..


#2807    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,156 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Keep Your Mach Up and Check Six

Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy theories and Controlled Demolition Myths


http://www.debunking911.com/




KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#2808    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,557 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:05 PM

View Postturbonium, on 17 November 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Fire is the much healthier option to go with, which he quickly found out.

He spoke the truth at first. As a demo expert, he knew it was a CD. He also noted a few of the telltale signs of a CD,

So ten days later, he says fire is "certainly" the cause of collapse?

His retraction was done in fear, under duress. A suicidal mistake that must be corrected. And so he changed his story to fit.

If he just said other causes than CD are possible, at least he'd make sense. But to say it's "certainly" fire, before any investigation has started, is so obviously contrived to fit in with the official 9/11 'script'.

He doesn't give reasons why fire is the cause  but he is certain it was fire anyway.  

Sheesh..


The same pattern that we saw with Coroner Miller at Shanksville.

His first statement that they found nothing blew away the foundation of the official story.  He was told by somebody to straighten things out, and under threat he did just that.

Pattern of behavior. :innocent:


#2809    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,156 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Keep Your Mach Up and Check Six

Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 17 November 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

The same pattern that we saw with Coroner Miller at Shanksville.

Remember, you were the person who  brought coroner Wally Miller into the argument and amazingly, he confirms what recovery crews and investigators have confirmed as well, which is, the crash site near Shanksville was that of United 93.



Flight 93 fragmented violently upon impact. Most of the aircraft wreckage was found near the impact crater. Investigators found some very light debris including paper and nylon scattered up to eight miles (13 km) from the impact point in New Baltimore, Pennsylvania. Other tiny aircraft fragments were found 1.5 miles (2.4 km) away at Indian Lake, Pennsylvania. All human remains were found within a 70-acre (28 ha) area surrounding the impact point. Somerset County Coroner Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was part of a backbone. Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg), or eight percent of the total. The rest of the remains were consumed by the impact. Investigators identified four victims by September 22 and eleven by September 24. They identified another by September 29.

Thirty-four passengers were identified by October 27 All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21. Human remains were so fragmented that investigators could not determine whether any victims were dead before the plane crashed. Death certificates for the 40 victims listed the cause of death as homicide and listed the cause of death for the four hijackers as suicide. The remains and personal effects of the victims were returned to the families. The remains of the hijackers, identified by the process of elimination, were turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) as evidence.


Posted Image

Piece of fuselage found at crash site

Investigators also found a knife concealed in a cigarette lighter. They located the flight data recorder on September 13 and the cockpit voice recorder the following day. The voice recorder was found buried 25 feet (8 m) below the crater. The FBI initially refused to release the voice recording, rejecting requests by Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher and family members of those on board. The FBI subsequently allowed the relatives of the Flight 93 victims to listen to the recording in a closed session on April 18, 2002. Jurors for the Zacarias Moussaoui trial heard the tape as part of the proceedings and the transcript was publicly released on April 12, 2006.

http://en.wikipedia....lines_Flight_93

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was the danger to city? Doomed United Flight 93 passed just south of Pittsburgh

Thursday, September 13, 2001
By Jonathan D. Silver, Post-Gazette Staff Writer  

The Federal Aviation Administration said yesterday it turned over to the FBI a radar record of United Airlines Flight 93's route. The data traced the Boeing 757-200 from its takeoff from Newark, N.J., to its violent end at 10:06 a.m., just outside Shanksville, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

As the plane neared Somerset County, air traffic controllers in Cleveland alerted their counterparts at John P. Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County Airport that a plane was about 12 miles away, "heading directly at the airport at about 6,000 feet," said Joe McKelvey, the airport's executive director.

"The Johnstown tower chief told me that under the circumstances, he was going to evacuate the tower," McKelvey said. "Before either one of us could get off the phone, the aircraft had already passed us by."

Moments later, it crashed 14 miles to the southeast, killing all 45 people aboard.

Edited by skyeagle409, 17 November 2012 - 03:41 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#2810    Liquid Gardens

Liquid Gardens

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,703 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • "Or is it just remains of vibrations from echoes long ago"

Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:19 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 17 November 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

The same pattern that we saw with Coroner Miller at Shanksville.

His first statement that they found nothing blew away the foundation of the official story.  

Can you please provide the exact full text of the first statement you are referring to?  I haven't read a single thing from him that blows away anything.  I think you are confusing his initial impressions of the scene with 'found nothing'.

Quote

He was told by somebody to straighten things out, and under threat he did just that.

This I believe is straight out of your imagination and has absolutely no evidence to support it.  Feel free to correct me.  By the way, what you deem 'common sense' is not evidence.

Quote

Pattern of behavior. :innocent:

Very true, just not for the behavior you are referring to...

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#2811    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,557 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:06 PM

LG

Did I already ask you how many airplane wrecks you have been to yourself?


#2812    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,156 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Keep Your Mach Up and Check Six

Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:21 PM



KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#2813    Liquid Gardens

Liquid Gardens

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,703 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • "Or is it just remains of vibrations from echoes long ago"

Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 17 November 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

LG

Did I already ask you how many airplane wrecks you have been to yourself?

?

No, I don't think so.  Have I asked you what brand of toothpaste you use?  It's about as relevant.

What exactly could the answer to that question, or your piloting experience or your being at an entirely different crash site which is what I think you are getting at, have to do with your statements I replied to:  "His first statement that they found nothing blew away the foundation of the official story." and "He was told by somebody to straighten things out, and under threat he did just that."?  You made it sound like Miller's first statement was what blew away the official story, not the conclusions you've drawn from your crash site experience.  Puzzling response.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#2814    turbonium

turbonium

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,344 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2005

Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:12 AM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 17 November 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Can you please provide the exact full text of the first statement you are referring to?  I haven't read a single thing from him that blows away anything.  I think you are confusing his initial impressions of the scene with 'found nothing'.

A few quotes...    

Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service."

http://www.washingto...A56110-2002May8


“If you didn’t know, you would have thought no one was on the plane. You would have thought they dropped them off somewhere.”

The only recognizable body part he sees is a piece of spinal cord with five vertebrae attached. He will later tell Australian newspaper The Age, “I’ve seen a lot of highway fatalities where there’s fragmentation. The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven’t, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop.”

Dave Fox, a former firefighter, also arrives early at the crash scene, but sees just three chunks of human tissue. He says, “You knew there were people there, but you couldn’t see them.”

http://www.historyco...allace_miller_1

  • He told author David McCall: "I got to the actual crash site and could not believe what I saw. ... Usually you see much debris, wreckage, and much noise and commotion. This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no bodies, and no noise. ... It appeared as though there were no passengers or crew on this plane." (David McCall, From Tragedy to Triumph, 2002, pp. 86-87)



  • He told CNN: "It was a really a very unusual site. You almost would've thought the passengers had been dropped off somewhere. ... Even by the standard model of an airplane crash, there was very little, even by those standards." (CNN, 3/11/2002)

  • Author Jere Longman wrote: "Wallace Miller, the Somerset County coroner, arrived and walked around the [crash] site with [assistant volunteer fire chief Rick] King. ... They walked around for an hour and found almost no human remains. 'If you didn't know, you would have thought no one was on the plane,' Miller said. 'You would have thought they dropped them off somewhere.'" (Jere Longman, Among the Heroes, 2002, p. 217)


http://shoestring911...ace-miller.html


No bodies. Not a drop of blood.  

To say 'they found nothing' is quite accurate.


#2815    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,156 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Keep Your Mach Up and Check Six

Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:07 AM

The crash site of PSA 1771; No bodies, no blood.

Posted Image

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#2816    turbonium

turbonium

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,344 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2005

Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:32 AM

Well, that would make a total of two aircraft crashes where no bodies / no blood were found, and the other umpteen-thousand aircraft crashes where they did find bodies/blood.

So it's not exactly a commonplace scenario, now is it?

These two crashes have remarkable similascerities -  they both had no bodies or blood found, they both had 'lunatics' on board. and despite finding no bodies or blood, they both somehow managed to find superb evidence of the 'lunatics'! Amazing!

Anyway, the point I was making was that the coroner wasn't misquoted,

So he must have had a good reason to say he was. Why lie about something so...er...common?


#2817    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,557 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:38 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 17 November 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

?

No, I don't think so.  Have I asked you what brand of toothpaste you use?  It's about as relevant.

What exactly could the answer to that question, or your piloting experience or your being at an entirely different crash site which is what I think you are getting at, have to do with your statements I replied to:  "His first statement that they found nothing blew away the foundation of the official story." and "He was told by somebody to straighten things out, and under threat he did just that."?  You made it sound like Miller's first statement was what blew away the official story, not the conclusions you've drawn from your crash site experience.  Puzzling response.

No, the point of my question regarding your ever having been present at a crash site is that when Miller and his assistants arrived at the site, they saw nothing.  Numerous people there saw nothing, and those statements were recorded on TV.  Apologies for not linking, it was 11 years ago.  The overhead videos showed nothing, from low level in a helicopter.  There was nothing to be seen, from the air or on the ground, and that's what everybody said.

If there had been that large square section of fuselage and passenger windows, painted in red and white, it would have stuck out like a sore thumb, yet nobody reported seeing it.  The videos shot from the helicopters have since been scrubbed from the internet.

So I am pointing out the similarities between Miller's subsequent conversion/retraction/edit to Van Romero's subsequent retraction of his earlier statement.  Though not a witness that day, the pretty young French actress Marion Cotillard went through the same process.

It is a pattern of behavior LG--people making public statements that contradict the OCT are coerced into retracting or editing those statements.

So the simple fact is that in one statement the person was telling the truth, and in the other he is not telling the truth.  Which is which?


#2818    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,557 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

View Postturbonium, on 18 November 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

Well, that would make a total of two aircraft crashes where no bodies / no blood were found, and the other umpteen-thousand aircraft crashes where they did find bodies/blood.

So it's not exactly a commonplace scenario, now is it?

These two crashes have remarkable similascerities -  they both had no bodies or blood found, they both had 'lunatics' on board. and despite finding no bodies or blood, they both somehow managed to find superb evidence of the 'lunatics'! Amazing!

Anyway, the point I was making was that the coroner wasn't misquoted,

So he must have had a good reason to say he was. Why lie about something so...er...common?

There was one other accident in which no bodies were recovered--the crash in the Everglades all those years ago, I think Air Florida.  They knew where it was because the surface was clearly disturbed, but because of the sheer remoteness of the location, and the inability to get recovery equipment in, they eventually decided to leave the airplane and its contents in its murky grave.  The bodies were there, but could not be recovered.


#2819    Liquid Gardens

Liquid Gardens

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,703 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • "Or is it just remains of vibrations from echoes long ago"

Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 18 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

No, the point of my question regarding your ever having been present at a crash site is that when Miller and his assistants arrived at the site, they saw nothing.  Numerous people there saw nothing, and those statements were recorded on TV.  Apologies for not linking, it was 11 years ago.  The overhead videos showed nothing, from low level in a helicopter.  There was nothing to be seen, from the air or on the ground, and that's what everybody said.

And how many times does sky need to post pictures of other plane crashes where there are no bodies visible?  There are no bodies because no intact bodies survived the crash and most of the plane is buried in the ground.  If you go to the cemetery and look around and say, 'you can't see any dead bodies here', and then if you later watch a burial and say 'of course there are dead bodies here' you deem that a retraction by the same 'logic', correct?  You do understand the difference between initial statements based on what can be immediately seen without digging into the ground, and statements made after spending hours and hours recovering wreckage and remains?  And you are just cherrypicking from what 'everybody said' as you are selectively leaving out everything they said, such as the minor little tidbit that they found 1500 pieces of human remains.

Quote

If there had been that large square section of fuselage and passenger windows, painted in red and white, it would have stuck out like a sore thumb, yet nobody reported seeing it.  The videos shot from the helicopters have since been scrubbed from the internet.

Of course they saw the section of fuselage, they found it.  I've seen videos shot from the helicopters on the internet, they don't show what you expect them to either so I don't know why some other ones would need to be 'scrubbed' as if that's even possible.  The problem is entirely with what you are expecting to see on the surface from a helicopter.

Quote

So I am pointing out the similarities between Miller's subsequent conversion/retraction/edit to Van Romero's subsequent retraction of his earlier statement.  

Without providing the statement Miller made and the later statement that retracts it.  Take these two statements:  "1) I went to 7/11 today and upon initially entering the store, I didn't see any Coke" and "2) I then walked to the back of the store and found the Coke and purchased it."  Have I retracted statement 1?  Of course not, and neither did Miller.  Should I have expected to see the Coke from the store door?  No, and neither should Miller necessarily expect to see 'bodies' given the circumstances of the 93 crash which are not unprecedented, as sky has made clear.

Quote

It is a pattern of behavior LG--people making public statements that contradict the OCT are coerced into retracting or editing those statements.

It's 'people' now, not just Miller?  Who else?  There's no evidence of coercion, is there?  

Quote

So the simple fact is that in one statement the person was telling the truth, and in the other he is not telling the truth.  Which is which?

Please provide these two statements that you are having trouble reconciling.  You seem to be trying to smuggle in an assumption that is unfounded:  that the wreckage should be seen on the surface of the earth and there should be bodies laying all around.

Edited by Liquid Gardens, 18 November 2012 - 03:35 PM.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#2820    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 31,156 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Keep Your Mach Up and Check Six

Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:18 PM

Flight 93 victims' effects to go back to families

Sunday, December 30, 2001
By Steve Levin, Post-Gazette Staff Writer


United Airlines Flight 93 slammed into the earth Sept. 11 near Shanksville, Somerset County, at more than 500 mph, with a ferocity that disintegrated metal, bone and flesh. It took more than three months to identify the remains of the 40 passengers and crew, and, by process of elimination, the four hijackers.


Those remains were gathered by the FBI and other investigators from the 50-foot-deep pit the Boeing 757 jet gouged in a reclaimed strip mine, and from the woods adjoining the crash site.

But searchers also gathered surprisingly intact mementos of lives lost.


Those items, such as a wedding ring and other jewelry, photos, credit cards, purses and their contents, shoes, a wallet and currency, are among seven boxes of identified personal effects salvaged from the site. They sit in an El Segundo, Calif., mortuary and will be returned to victims' families in February.


"We have some property for most passengers," said Craig Hendrix, a funeral coordinator and a personal effects administrator with Douglass Air Disaster Funeral Coordinators, a company often contacted by airlines after devastating crashes.


Hendrix said United Airlines' insurance underwriter hired Douglass on Sept. 12 to handle not only funeral arrangements for the victims but also the return of personal effects.

His company also is helping identify the remains and coordinating funeral services for the passengers from the three other airline crashes that day -- United Airlines Flight 175, which crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center; American Airlines Flight 11, which hit the north tower of the World Trade Center; and American Airlines Flight 77, which hijackers flew into the Pentagon.


http://old.post-gaze...ght931230p3.asp


---------------------------------------------------------------


Another 14 victims of Flight 93 identified


Saturday, October 27, 2001
By Don Hopey, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

Investigators have positively identified the remains of another 14 persons aboard United Airlines Flight 93 and Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller said the investigation could conclude more quickly than expected.
At the same time, the high winds that buffeted the area over the last few days have dislodged additional airplane parts -- seat cushions, wiring, carpet fragments and pieces of metal -- from trees near the crash site.
"It's all aircraft parts, no human remains," Miller said. "We've collected them in 10 recycling bin-sized containers and eventually we'll turn them all over to United."

http://911research.w...7_flight93.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pittsburgh airport OK; United, American confirm lost planes

She said neither of the planes involved in today’s New York City collision originated from Pittsburgh. The airport authority did get a call this morning from 911 units in Somerset and Westmorelandcounties, where United Airlines flight 93 crashed. The Newark, N.J. flight was bound to San Francisco. On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: “The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone onthe ground who may have been involved. “United is working with all the relevant authorities, includingthe FBI, to obtain further information on these flights,” he said.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users