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U.K. democracy in terminal decline

uk vorter participation corporate power

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#16    ouija ouija

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 01:22 PM

View PostCoffey, on 08 July 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

I also found it strange that before he was voted in, there was an ITV program about his wife.... As though they knew he would be PM.

Or perhaps they thought there was no chance of him getting in 'on his own'; thought that voters would confuse the two in their minds when voting! (I'm assuming here that Mrs.C. is a likeable person .... I have no idea what she looks like even!).

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#17    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 06 July 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Blame aimed at the voters(or, increasingly), non-voters as per usual ......... politicians ignoring the fact that they themselves don't offer anything worth voting for.

"We lack an HONOURABLE elite"

The people are to blame for the state of their country.

All of them are capable of joining their preferred political party and voting on policy. None of the UK parties are run like dictatorships as thats illegal. Internally they are all democratic.

If you take the Labour Party as an example there are lots of minorities in its membership but when it comes to regular British people theres a lack. If people arent prepared to play a part in the political system they dont get represented.


#18    Coffey

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 01:58 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 08 July 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Or perhaps they thought there was no chance of him getting in 'on his own'; thought that voters would confuse the two in their minds when voting! (I'm assuming here that Mrs.C. is a likeable person .... I have no idea what she looks like even!).

I can't remember hat the program was like, I doubt I watched it. LOL

I just remember seeing it all over the adverts etc. It was something to do with "living with a member of parliment" or some mind numbing rubbish. You do ahve a point though, I did cosnider if it was part of the Campaign to make people visualise him as already being the PM persuading people to vote.

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#19    ouija ouija

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 08 July 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

The people are to blame for the state of their country.

All of them are capable of joining their preferred political party and voting on policy. None of the UK parties are run like dictatorships as thats illegal. Internally they are all democratic.

If you take the Labour Party as an example there are lots of minorities in its membership but when it comes to regular British people theres a lack. If people arent prepared to play a part in the political system they dont get represented.
'The people', as mentioned in your first sentence, does, of course, include politicians and all those with the most power ........ and the most money(money=power to effect change), oh no, wait! those with a lot of money are barely(if at all), affected by anything that the government does, they just continue with their lovely lives!
I've said it before but I'll say it again: NONE of the political parties in this country are worth putting effort and hard-earned cash into. They will all be run by individuals who want power for themselves and listen to no one but themselves and an 'inner circle' that supports them. It is not possible in this country to effect change from inside the political parties.
Once you have voted someone into parliament they can do as they please(or as their party pleases), until the next round of voting in four years time ......... during which time all sorts of policies that you didn't vote for can be put into place. So even if you play along and join in the system you are still not represented!

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#20    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 02:38 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 08 July 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

'The people', as mentioned in your first sentence, does, of course, include politicians and all those with the most power ........ and the most money(money=power to effect change), oh no, wait! those with a lot of money are barely(if at all), affected by anything that the government does, they just continue with their lovely lives!
I've said it before but I'll say it again: NONE of the political parties in this country are worth putting effort and hard-earned cash into. They will all be run by individuals who want power for themselves and listen to no one but themselves and an 'inner circle' that supports them. It is not possible in this country to effect change from inside the political parties.
Once you have voted someone into parliament they can do as they please(or as their party pleases), until the next round of voting in four years time ......... during which time all sorts of policies that you didn't vote for can be put into place. So even if you play along and join in the system you are still not represented!

Stakeholder theory is applied to voters. Those stakeholder groups with the most power and influence are prioritised when it comes to policy making.

Big business holds the most power and influence because if they arent kept happy then they could relocate reducing the nations corporate tax income. Therefore they are the top priorty.

The immigrants and minorities get represented because they've formed their own interest groups which push for their rights. A lot of them are also members of a political party like Labour. In laymans terms they've increased their power and influence so politicians represent them.

The media is important, unions and student unions are important. The professional class like doctors, teachers, lawyers, engineers, scientists, managers and accountants are all important.

The least important stakeholder in British society is your average, white, low income household. Its like they dont understand how the political system works. They need their own pressure groups, interest groups and more of them need to get involved in political parties to raise their standing as stakeholders. Then politicians will better represent them.

Its like the chicks in a birds nest. The ones that cry the loudest get fed while the quiet ones in the corner starve to death.


#21    Paracelse

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:03 PM

View Post747400, on 08 July 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

The mega-corporations are, as a wise person* has remarked before, the very opposite of the spirit of Free Trade and entrepreneurism, aren't they; they don't compete with each other, they collude to wrap the market (i.e. everyone who depends on the service they provide) up between them, and they just snap up anyone who does dare to offer any competition or get their Lawyers to stamp on them. Therefore giant mega-corporations reduce competition and Freedom of Choice. It's exactly the same in the political market, they behave in exactly the same way as mega-corporations.

* me

And yet for some odd reasons people continue to confuse the two:  capitalism and holigarchy

View PostMr Right Wing, on 08 July 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

The people are to blame for the state of their country.

All of them are capable of joining their preferred political party and voting on policy. None of the UK parties are run like dictatorships as thats illegal. Internally they are all democratic.

If you take the Labour Party as an example there are lots of minorities in its membership but when it comes to regular British people theres a lack. If people arent prepared to play a part in the political system they dont get represented.

As most people are threatened in their lifelyhood; they have less and less time to commit to politics.  OK so here in France I don't do anything because technically I'm not allowed to I do however try to alert some about the dangers of their political views. Furthermore people who vote for a party are silly, there are good people coming from all sides, albeit they are fewer and fewer.

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#22    questionmark

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 06:17 PM

View PostParacelse, on 08 July 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

And yet for some odd reasons people continue to confuse the two:  capitalism and holigarchy


You leave no occasion out to kick at Hollande, do you?

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#23    Paracelse

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 07:27 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 08 July 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

You leave no occasion out to kick at Hollande, do you?
And I never will, sorry .. I wrote this in another thread just a second ago

Quote

Posted ImageCoffey, on 08 July 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

The US goverment shoving the Communism word into everyones faces until all patroitic Americans hated any communist countries. It caused so much hate. The exact same thing has happened with "terrorism". Same psychology, different word.

Except communism was a real danger for the entire world.  Both my grandfathers suffered from it... one escape it and lived to talk about it ... not to me he die when I was 6 but to my father who talk to me.. yes communism is a danger and the more accepted name "socialism" is just another face of the same demon

I'm of Polish ancestry, and for me both communism and socialism are evil.  I make sure however to notify people that behaving socialy toward neighbors and such is something else.  Furthermore NL wasn't even able to run the French socialist party when he was its director what would make you think he could do the job of president.  I compare him to dubya.. same skills.
Although the real culprit of France's demise would be Mitterand.  That former extreme right wing turncoat as the wind bloes really destroyed this country



Darn French keyboard

Edited by Paracelse, 08 July 2012 - 07:29 PM.

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République No.6
It's time for a sixth republic.

#24    stevewinn

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:09 PM

the trouble with democracy as always been - why appeal to 100% of the people when 51% will do.

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#25    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:31 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 08 July 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

the trouble with democracy as always been - why appeal to 100% of the people when 51% will do.
If only it was that, it might be a bit more fair. But look at 2005: mr. Tony Blair got in on about 20% of the total possible Electorate.
And then there's the curiosity of the U.S. system, where Mr. G.W. Bush could win, despite getting fewer votes than his opponent ..

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#26    questionmark

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:37 PM

View Post747400, on 08 July 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

If only it was that, it might be a bit more fair. But look at 2005: mr. Tony Blair got in on about 20% of the total possible Electorate.
And then there's the curiosity of the U.S. system, where Mr. G.W. Bush could win, despite getting fewer votes than his opponent ..

Well, that could also happen with the British electoral system.Everywhere where the election is decided by the winner takes all district systems that can happen.

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#27    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:33 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 08 July 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

Well, that could also happen with the British electoral system.Everywhere where the election is decided by the winner takes all district systems that can happen.

Or we could go over the the Greek system where our leaders are chosen by Brussels

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#28    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostFramling, on 07 July 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Two old pals, a French and British man were walking along the beach arguing over which of their country's was better. Suddenly they stumbled over a dingy vase half buried in the sand. As they both reached down to pick it up at the same time and brush it off a Genie pops out and says "You have awoken the Great Genie from a long, long sleep. I usually grant two wishes but since you both found me I will give you one each!"

The British gentleman, still feeling a little chapped about his old pals comments said "Me first!" "I want an impenetrable wall, 20 meters high and 3 meters thick and 20 meters deep built around my great land so no frenchmen can ever set foot in her again!" The genie says "your wish is my command".

The frenchmen, a little more cautious with his one wish, asks the genie "this wall is 20m high?" yes. "20m deep? yes. "Impenetrable?" Absolutely thundered the genie.  His friend is smiling ear to ear.

The frenchman says back to the genie "Well then, fill it with water!"

I've seen the same joke but the other way around.


#29    Charpoy Major

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:19 PM

View PostSuper-Fly, on 06 July 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

Britain is screwed anyway, the people in power - joke.
these people have'nt got a clue about day to day living for most of the populace.

The whole country is in decline, and people dont really care because there
happy in there day to day lives, living just above the bread line, watching there soaps and jeremy kyle.

Sad state of affairs i know, but untill the masses wake up and see whats accutally happening nothing will change.

Still, the people in power know what good for us.

As for people not "discussing current affairs" etc the power people have employed divide and conquer tactics.
plus the fact the price of going out to the pub is robbery, the pub being a place where people can meet and talk about stuff, work, living, etc
it can't be done for most famillies.

still my 2 cents...

nice post OP. :tu:


Hear Hear!! couldn,t agree with you more sir, voters are so disillusioined by the clowns they send to Westminster in the forlorn hope that some good may come of it, that they now turn away from their universal sufferage or else think about opting for extreme right wing nationalist parties (Partei,s). The danger or maybe the hope is that a new form of national socialism will re-emerge, a'la Nazi,sm, unlikely but still a dark lurking danger unless our "Pollie,s" GET A FRIGGING GRIP and STOP TROUGHING IN THE SWILL BIN of the WESTMINSTER VILLAGE.,

Rant over, awaiting incoming





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