41 replies to this topic

[Darkwind]

Some religions really seem to feel they need to sell their religion one way or another. Why? If a Path is right and true then why would you need to sell it? Some religions don't seem to have the need to go out and knock on the door or  barrage on the internet to convince people of its validity and how wonderful it is. If it is really that wonderful wouldn't people just naturally want to follow it without any pressure.   You never find Buddhist, Pagans or Native peoples at the door.

I can't speak for the rest, but Pagans feel if it is time for you to come to the Path, then you will find it. That is how it happen to me. It can actually be kind of hard find Pagans.  We are a secretive folk sometimes. People do find us and want to join, so I am happy to point the way. Some stay some don't, it doesn't matter either way. We are growing as a religion big time and festivals see huge turnouts. We have no need to hand out leafets promoting Paganism and it would be frowned on.

Discuss...

[Coffey]

I personally think if someone feels the need to convince others their religion is the right one, then they are really jsut trying to convince themselves.

I wish people would just keep their beleifs and faith to themselves. If someone wants to know they will come and ask you or use the internet. Then you can explain.

[solaries]

I personally don't see the problem.  If you believe you're enlightened in some way, it is natural to use it to help others.  A lot of religions are about helping others, not being selfish, caring for one another.  You can keep thinking, "I don't want anyone to help me, and I don't want to help anyone!" if you like, but blaming people for caring is not a flaw of theirs.

Edited by solaries, 07 July 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[Darkwind]

You don't have to be religious to help people and care about people.  I help lots of people without my religion entering into it. My dog is a therapy dog and we go into nursing homes to visit people. I would never bring up my religion.  But when I was in a nursing home there was great deal of pressure from Christians to go to church.  They weren't helping me in the least.  (I'm using Christians, because that is who was doing it not to pick on them.)

[and then]

Darkwind, on 07 July 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Some religions really seem to feel they need to sell their religion one way or another. Why? If a Path is right and true then why would you need to sell it? Some religions don't seem to have the need to go out and knock on the door or  barrage on the internet to convince people of its validity and how wonderful it is. If it is really that wonderful wouldn't people just naturally want to follow it without any pressure.   You never find Buddhist, Pagans or Native peoples at the door.

I can't speak for the rest, but Pagans feel if it is time for you to come to the Path, then you will find it. That is how it happen to me. It can actually be kind of hard find Pagans.  We are a secretive folk sometimes. People do find us and want to join, so I am happy to point the way. Some stay some don't, it doesn't matter either way. We are growing as a religion big time and festivals see huge turnouts. We have no need to hand out leafets promoting Paganism and it would be frowned on.

Discuss...

]I'm not sure about other religions but in Christianity we are urged, if not commanded, to "go and make disciples".  Does this mean we should harass and browbeat non-believers? Absolutely not.  But simply inviting someone to church or telling them of God's grace and love is hardly an aggressive act is it? Coming to faith in God is a deeply personal experience and cannot be forced on anyone.  But how can a person share what's in their heart if they cannot ever even speak about the transformative power of the love they've been shown?  And to complicate matters even more, often the person doing the sharing is examined and found to be lacking in "perfection" -  as though any human could be... if we were there would be no need of God.  People are free to choose but how can they choose something they know nothing of?

[solaries]

Darkwind, on 07 July 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

You don't have to be religious to help people and care about people.  I help lots of people without my religion entering into it. My dog is a therapy dog and we go into nursing homes to visit people. I would never bring up my religion.  But when I was in a nursing home there was great deal of pressure from Christians to go to church.  They weren't helping me in the least.  (I'm using Christians, because that is who was doing it not to pick on them.)

Spiritually, not practically.  It seems unfair to blame those who care for others unselfishly.  Nice to hear you help in nursing homes    I am not Christian, but to take it as an example.  Let's say I know deep in my heart that Jesus is the answer.  Furthermore, I like you a lot.  You're a really good person.  I'd want to share with you or you share with me the road to spiritual fulfillment.  If you refuse, it might seem pushy to keep asking, but they are doing so because they care for you.  Appreciate it

[Darkwind]

It depends on how many times you're are asked. When you are in a nursing home you are trapped there is no escape  The question "have you read the Bible came up a lot" when I said yes, my ability to read would be called in to question. I had one minister come in and was very kind, we talk a little about his and my religion. Then we talked   about NASCAR.  No pressure, no questioning my intelligence.  That helped, he was a loving spirit. If there is truth nothing needs to be said.

There are lots of churches, if someone wants to go they can find you.  Really, is there anybody out there who hasn't at least heard about the  Bible or Quran?   Over all, you can talk about religion without sell it.  If it really all wonderful do you really need to sell it?  If you ask me about my religion I'll tell you about it, but I'm not going to sell it. You have to seek it. If your interested I MIGHT invite you to a drumming circle. (which are secular) My Path takes time and learning.  I'm not going to waste my time unless the person is sincere. We can be friends, but my path is another matter. It is not that easy.  Selling it to me would cheapen it.

[markdohle]

Things are different now.  I am sure in the past, the far past, even in countries that we would call 'pagan', would not like it if a citizen of ones tribe or city decided to deny the god of that tribe or city.  Socrates was put to death because he did not believe in the Athenian's gods.  This is not a  put down.  Today, in the West at least, religion is not co-joined with the government, they are not one, so to believe what one wants is not considered a threat.  However, Christian do seek to share their faith...which I believe we should.... when done in a manner that violates the rights of others then it is wrong.  This is a modern sentiment, at least in the way it is lived out.  We no longer kill someone because they believe differently, in fact we can try to learn and grow in understanding.  I have studed other paths, religions and philosophies, none of them have led me away from my faith, but it has only deepened it and has expanded my ability to communicate without fear with others.  I believe 'some' of the athiest of today need to learn that as well, or things may backfire for them....which would be tragic I believe.  We need our freedoms.

Edited by markdohle, 07 July 2012 - 10:08 PM.

[QuiteContrary]

I oppose selling Christianity through candy for the kids. I've seen churches use candy to draw in kids more times than I can remember. It makes me sick and imo, it should if I was a believer too.
Bribery never makes anyone look good or trustworthy.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 07 July 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[solaries]

Darkwind, on 07 July 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

It depends on how many times you're are asked. When you are in a nursing home you are trapped there is no escape  The question "have you read the Bible came up a lot" when I said yes, my ability to read would be called in to question. I had one minister come in and was very kind, we talk a little about his and my religion. Then we talked   about NASCAR.  No pressure, no questioning my intelligence.  That helped, he was a loving spirit. If there is truth nothing needs to be said.

There are lots of churches, if someone wants to go they can find you.  Really, is there anybody out there who hasn't at least heard about the  Bible or Quran?   Over all, you can talk about religion without sell it.  If it really all wonderful do you really need to sell it?  If you ask me about my religion I'll tell you about it, but I'm not going to sell it. You have to seek it. If your interested I MIGHT invite you to a drumming circle. (which are secular) My Path takes time and learning.  I'm not going to waste my time unless the person is sincere. We can be friends, but my path is another matter. It is not that easy.  Selling it to me would cheapen it.

From your description it sounds like they are on a quest to make you one of them   Senior citizens have a lot of time in their hands and I can see religion being of utmost concern to them.  Since you're going there to help them and be nice, it puts you in an awkward situation.   Kind'a like dealing with the constant advances of someone you like a lot, but not in the same way   Sorry you have to deal with a difficult situation.  Perhaps refusing to debate religion while being open to listen to it?  I have some "aggressive" older Catholics in my family, and when I visit them, that's what I do.  I don't get baited by their pushy queries, but I do patiently listen to anything they want to talk about, including Catholicism.

Edited by solaries, 07 July 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[Darkwind]

The old people are cool. Dogs don't have a religion.  They are focused on the dog. They "God bless us" all the time.  We are very blessed that is for sure.   I was a patient, I have an illness that puts me in rehab every once in a while. So when I say I was trapped, I was trapped.

[Sky Scanner]

The second that someone starts talking to me about their religion, my only interest is from an historical/educational aspect. The idea that any God needs another man to tell me about him/her/it is laughable and frankly insulting to any concept of God (imo).

Edited by The Sky Scanner, 08 July 2012 - 03:33 AM.

[Podo]

I agree with observer. Religion is a wonderful and fascinating topic, but only academically. The game is over the moment conversion is attempted.

[Mr Walker]

<sub>If i find a way (any sort of way) to be at peace and empowered in my life, so for example i am always happy, always courageous, always kind and compassionate; or if i find a way to tap into abilities and powers such as healing, teaching, helping others,  and i find these things in a spiritual truth, revelation OR practical awareness;  then what AM i to do? keep these benefits for myself OR teach others how they can gain all these benefits and empowerments? (Or at the very least let everyone know they are available to them)

I find it a tricky question. Like Darkwind,  I tend to believe people must find their own path, but so many modern people lack even a realisation of the  existence of these paths, or the potentials which exist for every human being to be so much more than they presently are.

Is it right to leave them in ignorance of their potential?

  I am a teacher of children in many practical skills like English, Health and personal development, History and Geography, Politics etc., so I am biased towards trying to help evey person fulfil their potentials. A lot of people are actively or passively resistant to becomong all they can be,  because it involves; growth, change, effort and discipline.</sub>

[braveone2u]

My path is always monetarily free. The head of my order forbade the conduits to ask for money; however, I'm always allowed to accept personal gifts, just like the rest (conduits and students alike). On the other hand, I have no problem with groups asking for money and promoting their beliefs. In American, people do have the right to say no.