119 replies to this topic

[WilliamW]

Rlyeh, on 12 July 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I prefer answers that can be supported, not the ones made up.

The problem with this preference is that by default you are limited to this reality or level of the game having to provide answers which are for questions which are found in another reality or level of the game.

Those answers - to the best of my knowledge - are only found at the level of the individual and the individual must investigate and find out for themselves.

In doing so, as many have done - the answers are provided from that other game level and are subjective so cannot (because of this) be substantiated by anyone other than peers - that is correct - by peers - those who have made the effort and report their findings - their subjective findings which collaborate in a objective manner.

So the answers are not 'made up' although they are generally explained through story form - like parables - because language is a limitation and hard to explain concepts (like other realities) have the best chance of making some kind of sense through this medium...movies have the additional device of imagery.

Magicians have a better chance of convincing you that some of their more profound illusions are explainable by running through the process of 'how it is done' than anyone who experiences non-ordinary realities connected to this reality does.

However, you would not question a magician as to weather they are in fact performing an illusion (like making a Lear jet disappear) or mucking with some kind of multidimensional portal function which ordinary science has no knowledge of or interest in checking out.  You simply accept the explanation that the magician tells you - 'it is a clever illusion' and you accept this without any scientific evidence to support the claim that it is an illusion.

In this case you might say "I accept  answers that cannot  be supported, they are not made up"

[WilliamW]

Professortaylor, on 13 July 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

If the only real thing is Consiousness then the Players, Game, Life, the universe & everything are all part of the one whole or (are god).
A good analogy being "all of us and everything is made of stardust" which is a well supported assertion.

Science doesn't have all the answers for sure, take for instance the question of matter, that hardness, that "knock knock" on the table when your knuckle hits it. As it turns out, matter is made of atoms. Atoms are made of particles that spin around it's nucleus at microscopic distances equivilent to the planets in the solar system (Which is a lot of empty space) . Science learned that matter was, well, a lot more insignicant than our perceptions of it.. 99.99% of our peception of matter doesn't exist..

Discovering that 99.99% of matter doesn't exist is a pretty good argument that we are experiencing a virtual reality.

Now at Cern Physisists are smashing these particals together in search of the God Partical, the Higgs Boson, that thing which gives mass and solidity to everything we percieve as real. They can't even see the God partical, but somehow know it's there. In truth there's no real answer to the question yet. Just lot's of theories, lot's of evidence.. The more we question the more we learn.

Personally I'm hoping that the God partical turns out to be conciousness. In which case we are all parts of the Whole, Players, Game, Life, the universe & Everything.

I Hope I've explained this better. I'm usually one for simple Q's and A's. I love simplicity to much..

Okay thanks.  Simplicity is a good thing as long as you keep your wits about you in a very complex environment.  

As I understand things to date – while everything could be imbued with consciousness, it might not be necessary for consciousness to do this with the same intensity level.

The matter is thus a vehicle for consciousness – as well as something to explore using different aspects or levels or intensities.

If you ever saw that Indiana Jones movie where they reconnect the crystal skull to the ‘Alien’ and this sets off a reaction…the woman wants to know all that there is and her wish is granted but unfortunately for her, the particular form she is using cannot withstand that information.

Take that concept and apply it to this Universe – this physical Universe.  It is a physical vessel for ‘everything’ to be contained but that ‘everything’ only applies to everything that can be manifest into the physical….this is not to say that the non physical cannot interact with the physical but in terms of consciousness, if that is what interacted with the inert stuff of the Universe – the potential – then the result was a Big Bang and the continued effects of that reaction…expanding…is one result of that interaction which can be measured and categorise by consciousness within that Universe.

Can we call that consciousness ‘God’?

Unfortunately the term or title ‘God’ has been subject to so many human abuse systems that it is not appropriate to do so, and I say this respectfully and sincerely.  That label is not appropriate if for no other reason than the Players in the OP are the nearest equivalent to our human god concepts, and they certainly are not the sum total of that which came before the Big Bang.

Certainly the Big Bang is the ‘switch on’ as far as the game board goes, but there is an infinity of prior event to that particular one.

Not to mention that the Players are also being played.



I do not think that the next stage of CERN project will uncover the Consciousness…or expose the Players.  I think a blank wall is all that will be found and the question will remain forever open.

The reason for this is simple.  WE are that consciousness and WE are the Players but in this Universe we are behaving more like victims than anything else and by not scientifically finding out for sure, the question remains open because the question is FOR THE INDIVIDUAL to work out, and not by external evidence alone but by the individual realizing that the individual IS consciousness…Consciousness….the individual finding out for their self – doing the detective work – accepting scientific evidence as part of the process but also understanding that science is limited to the physical reality and will not boldly go where it assumes only the delusional go.

Given enough individuals making that journey though and the rules can change and THAT will be way more significant than what CERN will ever be able to show us.

Edited by WilliamW, 13 July 2012 - 05:15 AM.

[Rlyeh]

Seeker79, on 12 July 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I can gurantee that you are. You are playing a game of symantics. Awareness never ceases. It just changes forms.

This is a non-argument, supported facts refute you, mental awareness does cease.
However I'm not really surprised you can't tell the difference between amnesia and consciousness, as you're clearly making up your own meanings.

Edited by Rlyeh, 13 July 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[Professor T]

I totally agree with most of this.

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The matter is thus a vehicle for consciousness – as well as something to explore using different aspects or levels or intensities.

Very True. however we still havnen't pinned down what matter is. (correct me if I'm wrong or have mis-read this, it's kind of hard discussing things of this magnitude in any language)

Quote

Can we call that consciousness ‘God’?

Unfortunately the term or title ‘God’ has been subject to so many human abuse systems that it is not appropriate to do so, and I say this respectfully and sincerely. That label is not appropriate if for no other reason than the Players in the OP are the nearest equivalent to our human god concepts, and they certainly are not the sum total of that which came before the Big Bang.

Very good Point. I guess I used the term "God" from a reference of my own upbringing.. Perhaps Omnipresence or ultimate conciousness?

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Certainly the Big Bang is the ‘switch on’ as far as the game board goes, but there is an infinity of prior event to that particular one.

My head exploded... LOL.

This brings up an even bigger question that can only be answered by someones belief stucture.. Mine is: There is no such thing as nothing, there is only potential. Like you say, the question is FOR THE INDIVIDUAL to work out. And you'r probably right regarding CERN creating more questions and no definitative answers.

[Rlyeh]

Seeker79, on 13 July 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

Oh... Rlyeh even our most celebrated scientists engage in thought experiments. You do realize the nature of the op? You see this is why I asked you that question long ago. I still ( respectfully) think you need to be screened. It may actually be the source of what you yold me. I know. I have a student right now with both problems

Still prattling on as if your opinions are of some worth. Your problem is you fail to understand the difference between hypothetical and factual.
I think you need to stop making up claims just because the facts don't appeal to you.

BTW this student, is one of his problems his refusal to swallow your asinine assertions? That's a problem many of us have.

Edited by Rlyeh, 13 July 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[Rlyeh]

WilliamW, on 13 July 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

The problem with this preference is that by default you are limited to this reality or level of the game having to provide answers which are for questions which are found in another reality or level of the game.
<snip>

But this isn't a problem, its an advantage. Anyone can make up stories, peddle them as facts. The crunch comes down to whether they can back them up, for you that may be a problem as you have supported NOTHING.

I'm not interested in this "game" you think we're playing.

[failturner25]

_{A religion based on virtual reality? Anyway, I think I need a new brain after reading all this...}

[Seeker79]

Rlyeh, on 13 July 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Still prattling on as if your opinions are of some worth. Your problem is you fail to understand the difference between hypothetical and factual.
I think you need to stop making up claims just because the facts don't appeal to you.

BTW this student, is one of his problems his refusal to swallow your asinine assertions? That's a problem many of us have.

No one considers this "game" factual. It's a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT. A technique routinely used by scientists and philosophers. The only reason I bother explaining it to you is because I have often wondered if you can actually tell if Somone is meaning to be hypothetical or not. This is not an insult. It comes from observations of how you relate to these subjects. See below.

My student is autistic, and dosnt know how to behave in social situations and is unable to tell the difference between hypothetical assertions and actual ones. Like most people on the spectrum, he has an inability to recognize non literal communications. Things like metaphore, allegory, body language, etc are forign languages to him that we take for granted. His autism has lead to depression, and a certain bit of moodiness. He lashes out because his social isolation ( purely a result of his condition) has him deeply depressed.

[Rlyeh]

Seeker79, on 13 July 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

No one considers this "game" factual. It's a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.

No, if you bothered to read it for a second, the OP has presented it as factual.

Quote

A technique routinely used by scientists and philosophers. The only reason I bother explaining it to you is because I have often wondered if you can actually tell if Somone is meaning to be hypothetical or not. This is not an insult. It comes from observations of how you relate to these subjects. See below.

Already been addressed. ^^

Quote

My student is autistic, and dosnt know how to behave in social situations and is unable to tell the difference between hypothetical assertions and actual ones. Like most people on the spectrum, he has an inability to recognize non literal communications. Things like metaphore, allegory, body language, etc are forign languages to him that we take for granted. His autism has lead to depression, and a certain bit of moodiness. He lashes out because his social isolation ( purely a result of his condition) has him deeply depressed.

You're the last person who should be teaching someone who can't tell the difference between hypothetical and factual.

[Seeker79]

Rlyeh, on 13 July 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

No, if you bothered to read it for a second, the OP has presented it as factual.

Already been addressed. ^^

You're the last person who should be teaching someone who can't tell the difference between hypothetical and factual.

My point made.

There is no ambiguity in a kick to the head, no need for inturpretation in the ring, no words or hidding behind insults, insinuations, or the protection of anonymity.

Edited by Seeker79, 13 July 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[Rlyeh]

Seeker79, on 13 July 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

My point made.

There is no ambiguity in a kick to the head, no need for inturpretation in the ring, no words or hidding behind insults, insinuations, or the protection of anonymity.

You've made your point numerous times, you're neither credible nor trustworthy. As countless of your posts prove, if you're not pulling assertions out of thin air, you're inventing your own meanings.

It's a sad day when some poor fool is your student.


BTW What are you implying I have that I should be screened for? Autism? I don't display the symptoms, Einstein.

Edited by Rlyeh, 13 July 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[Seeker79]

Rlyeh, on 13 July 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

You've made your point numerous times, you're neither credible nor trustworthy. As countless of your posts prove, if you're not pulling assertions out of thin air, you're inventing your own meanings.

It's a sad day when some poor fool is your student.

[FlyingAngel]

There's also a theory says that whatever you think in your head really happen in an alternative reality. Or this reality is a dream and there are many levels of dream. Each level of dream is not really a dream, but a world and your consciousness is just an electrical signal that flies across dimensions.

[WilliamW]

Rlyeh, on 13 July 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

But this isn't a problem, its an advantage. Anyone can make up stories, peddle them as facts. The crunch comes down to whether they can back them up, for you that may be a problem as you have supported NOTHING.

I'm not interested in this "game" you think we're playing.

Oh you have an 'advantage' - well good luck with that Rlyeh -

You might not be interested in the game but you are part of it nonetheless.  And if you are one of those personalities who take advantage of others, peddling your own spin to advantage your own lifestyle, then you are a piece useful to the prison player team and pretending you're are not makes no difference.

[WilliamW]

failturner25, on 13 July 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

_{A religion based on virtual reality? Anyway, I think I need a new brain after reading all this...}

What religion?