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The United Nations Wants Your Guns America

gun control un united nations arms trade treaty arms treaty

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#271    Corp

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:24 PM

View PostTry2Blind, on 04 January 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Our founders said these things it's not our delusions. Freedom is fragile and it does need checks and balances. You might be right we may be crazy , but if freedom and liberty are being compromised Americans won't fall over and die like most of the empires of tyrants of the past.

And yet the rest of the Western world is just as free as America without the need to have the right to firearms. There seems to be something unique to American culture that having a gun = freedom.

Anyway the thread's kind of pointless given that the claim that the UN is looking to take American guns has been shown to be nothing but a lie.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#272    Czero 101

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

I think this sums it all up fairly well...

US Army Gen. Stanly McChrystal (Ret) on Jon Stewart, Jan 8, 2013, talking gun control:

http://watch.thecome....ca/#clip839838

Quote

Stewart: "You were talking about gun control and the issue that's at hand now. You obviously are in the Military, what is the general, you think, miltary position on that? Are they... They're in favour of a, I guess, a 2nd ammendment but perhaps not with the kind of technical advances that we've made, is that it?"

McChrystal: "Yeah I certainly can't speak for all military but if you've been on the battle field you've probably carried an M4 Carbine or something similar and it fires a .556 round at 3,000 feet per second and when it hits human flesh it does terrible damage. Its supposed to and that's what our soldiers should carry. I don't want them on our streets. I don't want them in our schools. I don't think that most people are prepared to carry those so I think we need to have a very very serious look at why we'd even would consider having guns like that available..."

And later:

Quote

McChrystal: "... As the power of weapons has exploded, you can give a single individual the power to do extraordinary damage, and so I just don't think you can give everybody the opportunity to do that 'cuz not everybody's got the responsibility, maturity and all those thing to do it. So I, I think as much as we'd like to say that everybody is capable of making very, very good decisions and self-control, I just don't think you can do that."

So once again, just to reiterate and make it perfectly clear to the "Cold, Dead Handers" out there, this is not about taking away the right to own or carry guns. This is about restricting the kinds of weapons that are available to people who don't need to have them, making it harder to procure those weapons and / or ammunition for them, and keeping better track of the ones in possession of those who do or can own them.





Cz

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#273    wolfknight

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

I will give up my guns after all the gangs have been disarmed maybe. !!!!!!!


#274    Corp

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

That's kind of what the UN is trying to do, making efforts to stop the illegal gun trade. People just saw efforts to limit the access criminals had to guns, decided it applied to only Amercian gun owners, and freaked out.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#275    DONTEATUS

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:14 AM

ITs time we all get Freaked Out ! Automatic weapons off the Streets !

This is a Work in Progress!

#276    ali smack

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:57 AM

I think it's a little silly when people from different countries bicker about firearms.
At the end of the day if you live in USA and have a gun at home to protect your self from robbers.
Fair enough.
If you live in the UK, Australia or anywhere else were guns are outlawed, then it's cool too.
I hate all this crap where people insult people because they don't agree with guns.
Or insult people because they own guns.
It's people's opinions and choices for pete's sake.
I personally am happy that guns are outlawed in my country because ( And I don't want any abuse
because of it ) I just feel if they were legal in the UK. It would make everything a whole lot worse.
Unless they were exclusively at home for protection against robbers, or in conveniance stores and garages.


#277    Laika

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:09 AM

View PostCorp, on 07 January 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

And yet the rest of the Western world is just as free as America without the need to have the right to firearms. There seems to be something unique to American culture that having a gun = freedom.


I think that guns were integral to the early American cultural experience. To deny that is ignorant. The Americas were conquered with guns. Independence was obtained with guns. The American West was explored and tamed with guns. All the world wars, and the civil war were horrifically violent experiences with guns.

I think that this is why the current debate on this issue is so heated.  Lots of people seem to want a one-month comprehensive fix for a problem that has been 300-years in the making.  Change is inevitable but it best takes place over time. It is when society perceives that change is taking place too fast that segments of it feel threatened. Whether that is justified or not, I don't know. Some people are threatened by these things because they have a large part of their identity wrapped-up in it. They see it as the world as they knew it, changing forever and being afraid of that. The idea that their lives will be different than they thought they would, with regard to personal freedoms, is something that nobody likes.

I think that the last many weeks have been the most devisive time regarding this issue that I can remember in my lifetime.  Clearly some new legislation will take place.  What that will be is anyone's guess, as I don't think that the support is nearly as great as some think it is for sweeping new gun control measures.  What I haven't liked about the debate is that it has often degraded to personal insults about both sides of the equation, without trying to find any common-ground.  The anti-gun people inevitably talk about someone's "need" to own this or that, disregarding that society allows people to own and use more destructive things than guns.  The pro-gun people talk about things that like putting armed guards in schools or arming teachers which I think isn't a very good solution.

I think one thing that we definitely need to look at is the mental health aspect, particularly of the young people in the country.  AR-type rifles have been available in the US since the 1960's, yet it is only in recent history that they are being used in these mass-killings.  I grew-up in the 1980's, and I never gave a passing-thought to anyone coming to school with a rifle and shooting people.  It was unthinkable.  For people who grew-up in previous generations, in rural areas, it was not uncommon for a student to bring a shotgun or rifle to school in their car to go hunting after school.  We need to examine what has changed during that time.  Certainly widespread prescription drug use may be a component, but I don't think it can all be attributed to that.

...


#278    psyche101

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:53 AM

To be honest, I am a little surprised at how many Americans are really upset at losing their guns. When they went here, I remember a few protesting but nothing like this. I always thought the main reason America kept guns in households was because they make a damn fortune from stocking households with guns. Like smoking, it just a way to fleece the masses, and keep them happy about it. I thought most people in Australia were more or less indifferent at the time, but it is working. People are not overrun in their homes with gangs, and we do not suffer shooting sprees. I can perfectly understand a situation such as Myles is in, Farmers have some serious predators after their stock. There are reasons to have a gun on a farm, and if requirements are in place, such as having to own a farm, then you would know where most of the guns are kept. Would that not be a good thing? Many countries manage to do without household guns, does that not prove we do not need guns?
I understand the adrenaline rush of sport too, but like Obviousman says, that too can be kept under tight control with registered clubs. I am not sure why there is heavy opposition to knowing where guns are. From what I have read in the thread, household invasion seems to be the biggest worry. Has anyone here ever been in such a situation where they have used a gun? I know that people get broken into, but that is not what people are describing here, has anyone ever had a gang come into their house, and terrorise them, and find need for a gun, and did it help? It strikes me that if you have a gun, it is also quite possible someone quicker than the bearer (who would probably be a bit nervous) might take the gun away form the householder and use it against them.
I do not know, instead of saying "pry it form my cold dead hands" would it not be better to say, "well, what have you got to PROVE that you can make the situation better"? And take it from there?


Has there not been recently quite a few injuries at gun shown, from accidental discharge? That seems enough of a reason to wonder if the average Joe should have a gun?

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