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Poll Finds Americans Favor Ending Tax Cuts

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#91    DieChecker

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:02 PM

View Postranrod, on 26 July 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

What about a compromise?  Increase revenue to 3.0 Trillion, decrease spending to 2.5 T?
That would probably work if the Politics were not so even and so partisan.

Quote

It does sound like Bush Jr reduced revenues substantially and then when we couldn't pay our bills anymore and the debt started skyrocketing, the republicans cried out, "gee whiz democrats, why are you spending so much?".  Meanwhile Bush spent more than Clinton or Obama.
Bush Jr did not really reduce revenues. His deficits were comparable to the previous 30 years for his first 7 years. If the Housing Bubble had collapsed in 2009 instead of 2008, Bush would have walked away clean.

His tax cuts, if they had not existed, would have collected more revenues, like 100 to 200 billion more per year, yet would they have kept that income, or would it have been spent? The same deficit is completely likely to have still happened.

View PostBama13, on 26 July 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Or cut spending. Why is raise taxes always the answer?
Because the Keynesians (mostly Democrats) believe that the more you spend the better off everyone is. Unfortunately their keynesian beliefs seem to melt away when it is not a Recession, when Keynesian says that the Gov should cut back, cut taxes and save for bad times. Keynesian does not mean running up Debt or a Deficit. A true Keynesian state would have a large bank account from which to draw to increase spending during recessions. The US is a god awful place to try Keynesian economics.

Edited by DieChecker, 28 July 2012 - 08:08 PM.

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#92    questionmark

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:29 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 28 July 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

That would probably work if the Politics were not so even and so partisan.


Bush Jr did not really reduce revenues. His deficits were comparable to the previous 30 years for his first 7 years. If the Housing Bubble had collapsed in 2009 instead of 2008, Bush would have walked away clean.



Evidently not... unless the GDP shrank during that time:
Posted Image
Just in case you are not getting it, the only time the Baby Bush outlay/revenue ratio was at the average  (since '46) was in '06, and then it surely was not the billions he intended to make on tax cuts.

Edited by questionmark, 28 July 2012 - 08:33 PM.

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#93    DieChecker

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:48 PM

Look at the graph Q. The deficit between outlays and revenues is not any different between 2003 and 2007 then it was during the entire Reagan/Bush years, and Carter and Nixon before that. The only blip is Clinton (who was a fine President for a Dem).

My point being that the 2001 to 2007 timeframe should not be considered "out of control".

Do you disagree that the Housing Bubble could have burst in 2009, 2010 or 2007 and at any of those points, the same spending would have been needed?

And if the Bush Cuts were so Terrible, why are they still in Effect and even being talked about as pushing out for another Year?

If you are arguing about my one statement that revenues did not decrease, then you would be right. They did decrease, but, what I was trying to point out was that the Deficit then incured was not unusual.

Edited by DieChecker, 28 July 2012 - 08:53 PM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#94    questionmark

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:00 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 28 July 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Look at the graph Q. The deficit between outlays and revenues is not any different between 2003 and 2007 then it was during the entire Reagan/Bush years, and Carter and Nixon before that. The only blip is Clinton (who was a fine President for a Dem).

My point being that the 2001 to 2007 timeframe should not be considered "out of control".

Do you disagree that the Housing Bubble could have burst in 2009, 2010 or 2007 and at any of those points, the same spending would have been needed?

And if the Bush Cuts were so Terrible, why are they still in Effect and even being talked about as pushing out for another Year?

We were coming from having money left over, claiming then that he did not "reduce" the outlays with his tax breaks sounds a little outlandish to me. And the reason why Clinton, with the aid of Gingrich, made a surplus is because nobody got any "tax revenue forfeitures by the government". If Dubya would have stayed on course he could have combat the housing bubble with half the debt he had then.

And, just because the others are speeding does not mean that if you are over 55 you are doing the right thing.

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#95    DieChecker

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:05 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 28 July 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

We were coming from having money left over, claiming then that he did not "reduce" the outlays with his tax breaks sounds a little outlandish to me. And the reason why Clinton, with the aid of Gingrich, made a surplus is because nobody got any "tax revenue forfeitures by the government". If Dubya would have stayed on course he could have combat the housing bubble with half the debt he had then.
That might be true, but it is supposition, just as my arguement is. Maybe Bush could have racked up less debt, and maybe he would have spent more.

Quote

And, just because the others are speeding does not mean that if you are over 55 you are doing the right thing.
Someone should tell that to Obama and the Congress who are doing 95 right now!

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#96    questionmark

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 28 July 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

Someone should tell that to Obama and the Congress who are doing 95 right now!

I just keep screeching in the wind and nobody listens....

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#97    and then

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:09 PM

After all the nonsense and partial sense and outright propaganda has subsided the real problem exists because politicians are able to buy votes with OPM.  PERIOD.  And it has become such an entrenched fact of our government that only a total collapse will end it.  When that happens the few left standing will have to try and devise some other scheme and I hope it works better for more of the people who are willing to work and try to get along with each other.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#98    preacherman76

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

View Postand then, on 28 July 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

After all the nonsense and partial sense and outright propaganda has subsided the real problem exists because politicians are able to buy votes with OPM.  PERIOD.  And it has become such an entrenched fact of our government that only a total collapse will end it.  When that happens the few left standing will have to try and devise some other scheme and I hope it works better for more of the people who are willing to work and try to get along with each other.

They already have another plan devised. Its why they are intentionaly destroying this system. It will work great for about 3 and one half years.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.




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