54 replies to this topic

[MR.Blueprint]

SPACE AND TIME IS THE SAME THING. WHEN WE LOOK OUT INTO SPACE WE ARE LOOKING AT TIME.

I THINK THE EDGE OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM IS LIKE 40YEARS AWAY.SO IF WE SEE THE EDGE OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM FROM EARTH WE ARE SEEING IT 40 YEARS FROM WHERE ITS AT NOW

WE ALSO CAN LOOK BACK TO WHEN THE UNIVERSE FIRST STARTED AND IS NOTHING THERE AT FIRST

SO WHEN WE SEE PLANETS BEYOND OUR SOLAR SYSTEM WE ARE SEEING THEM A BILLION YEARS FROM WHERE THEY ARE NOW.

SO IF WE FIND A PLANET THAT LOOKS LIKE LIFE IS ON IT WE ONLY SEEING IT A BILLION YEARS FROM WHERE IT IS NOW THE PLANET MIGHT BE LONG DEAD BY NOW PLUS IT WILL TAKE US A BILLION YEARS  TO GET THERE

SO WHEN WE GET THERE ONE CAN SAY IT WOULD BE 2 BILLION YEARS FROM THE TIME WE FIRST SEEN IT.

SO IN REALITY THAT PLANET WE SEE DOESNT EXIST ANYMORE
SO REALITY ANYTHING WE SEE A BILLION YEARS FROM US REALLY DOESNT EXIST TO US

THAT FACTOR ADDED WITH OTHER FACTORS IS MAKING IT HARD FOR MYSELF TO BELIEVE THAT LIFE OUT THERE EXIST.

OUR SPACE MIGHT BE VAST BUT IN SOME WAY WE CAN SAY ALL OF IT DOESNT EXIST TO US

WHAT YALL THINK ABOUT THAT?

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Edited by MR.Blueprint, 21 July 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[The New Richard Nixon]

I allready know this from school lol, oh yeah don;t use caps

[Jeffertonturner]

If it's all in caps it must be true.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

I wish I could properly articulate this they way I want to in order to explain the complexity of space time. The fabric you speak of does exist. It is everything in between. I don't think you were able to explain it either though. You seem to have a very basic understanding of the entire concept. Or like me you were not able to explain it properly.
your first sentence is where the deviation began for me. Your not looking at time per se. You are simply seeing the light reaching you after a long voyage through space. Traveling at the speed of light as it reaches you is dictating the light given off at the moment ttimes the speed of light times distance so something lets say 100 light years away would be the distance equal to traveling  at the speed of light for 100 years. Lol I think I just repeated myself. Now that doesn't mean that just because the light takes X amount of time to reach us that the star you are seeing must not exist anymore. It could mean that yes and we wouldn't know it until the light stopped reaching us, but it doesn't mean that it is absolute it already burnt out.
You said that if you could see the edge of our solar system it would be 40 years away. Again as above that would mean 40 years traveling at the speed of light so the time would be longer as far as reaching it ourselves. And I suppose I could get into time dilation which is another facet of this whole topic. If you were to travel for something like 4 years at the speed of light earth would experience something like fifty years and while you would age 4 years those on earth would age 50. BTW, that last sentence I am using as an example and is not meant to be mathematically correct. It would still take you 100 years to travel 100 light years at that speedof light and on earth the formula I presented as an example dictates that 1250 years had passed on earth. LOL. I may have gotten side tracked but there are so many facets to discuss in regards to the fabric of time and space. And more side tracking to follow. One theory exists that gravity may be an artifact of time and space or gravity could itself bend time and space. As an example consider a blanket stretched tightly. Now place a rock in the center of that blanket. That rock will use as our sun. Now roll a marble around either direction you wish in your mind. Because of the rock "bending" the blanket you will see that the marble rolls around the sun. Add inertia and the marble would continue rolling in an orbit aroundthe rock or sun. That marble could be considered a planet like earth. Further down the rabbit hole... now picture how that marble displaces the blanket as it rolls around the rock. Zoom in on the marble and we start all over to describe how our moon orbits our earth. Inertia is keeping it from crashing into earth as it orbits us and the bend as above pictured as the blanket being displaced from the weight keeps the moon from slingshotting away from earth into space in a beautiful harmony of push and pull... have I gone to far down the rabbit hole? So all that empty space is not empty at l space time is a force and forces can be influenced or bent and we see its byproducts even in our own solar system. Its what holds together everything because we are all a part of the fabric pushing pulling and influencing everything around us. So space time is one yes it is. Its whats holding the universe together. What I think you meant to describe was just one tiny facet of space time and that was only the effect of light traveling across the galaxies to finally reach our own eyes. I hope I articulated this post properly. This is by no means a complete definition of space time or its effects as there are many facets still beyond me that I am slowly picking up every time I read about it. And I admit my post could have errors in it so if someone has a more solid grip on the concept I would love nothing more than to discuss it further and maybe learn a few more things about this complex and almost impossible topic to fully grasp when thinking of every possible facet and cause and effect. Did I lose anyone? Likely everyone stopped reading after the first side track LOL that's OK I was quite long winded with my response. Ill stop here for now. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

[MR.Blueprint]

THE UNIVERSE IS A RESULT OF REACTIONS THAT  CONTINUING  TO GO ON. DUST IMPLODING CREATING ELEMENTS THEN THEM ELEMENTS CRASH INTO THERE SELF CREATING MORE ELEMENTS AND SO ON THAT PROCESS IS WHAT MAKE THE UNIVERSE THATS WHY ITS STEADY GROWING.



NOW TIME IS SPACE BECAUSE WHEN WE ARE IN ONE PART OF THE SPACE ITS A CERTAIN TIME
SPACE IS ALWAYS MOVING JUS LIKE TIME.

LAST YEAR THIS TIME THE SUN AND THE WHOLE SOLAR SYSTEM WAS IN A DIFFERENT PLACE IN SPACE.
100 BILLION YEARS FROM NOW THE EARTH, SUN, GALAXY AND SOLAR SYSTEM WILL ALL BE DIFFERENT.

SO IF WE SEE A PLANET THATS MORE THAN 10 BILLION YEARS AWAY WE REALLY KNOW THAT WORLD IS 90% LIKELY TO BE DIFFERENT ALL TOGETHER.

GALAXYS MERGE OV BILLION OF YEARS CREATING NEW GALAXYS.

SO IF WE TOOK A BILLION YEAR TRIP
I BELEIVE BOUT TIME WE GET TO THE DESTINATION THE DESTINATION ITSELF WILL BE TOTALLY CHANGED AND MATTER FACT THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WILL BE DIFFERENT

AND NOW I THINK ABOUT IT I THINK MAJOR SPACE TRAVEL IS VERY UNLIKELY.
I DONT THINK IT POSSIBLE TO TRAVEL OVER A BILLION YEARS
HAHA YOU TALKING BOUT JET LAG



EVEN EARTHLING GIVE OF OXYGEN THAT CREATES MORE LIFE. OUR WHOLE EXISTENT IS BASE OFF ACTION AND REACTION THAT KEEPS LIFE GOING WE ARE PLANETS OURSELVES.
WE HAVE THE SAME CHEMISTRY AND WE HAVE THE SAME ACTIONS. WE ARE NOTHING JUS TIME AND SPACE WE ALL ARE THE SAME.
TIME, SPACE, PLANETS, EARTHLINGS ARE ALL THE SAME THING

Edited by MR.Blueprint, 21 July 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[ninjadude]

Please refrain from YELLING.

[StarMountainKid]

Quote

OI THINK THE EDGE OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM IS LIKE 40YEARS AWAY.SO IF WE SEE THE EDGE OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM FROM EARTH WE ARE SEEING IT 40 YEARS FROM WHERE ITS AT NOW...  OUR SPACE MIGHT BE VAST BUT IN SOME WAY WE CAN SAY ALL OF IT DOESNT EXIST TO US

I agree with what you are saying. Even though we are only measuring how long it takes light from these objects to reach us, this is a measure of time as well as a measure of distance, because light travels at a measurable constant speed.

So, the edge of our solar system is 40 years away from us in the time dimension, from our perspective. If we observe the universe only in the time dimension, we're looking at objects as they existed in our past, and we can never observe them as they exist in our present.

This is true from the time perspective of these other objects, as well. We will always exist in their past. So, yes, the universe's present moment from our perspective cannot be observed by us, and in this sense the universe doesn't exist in our 'now'.

I'm not sure where this is going, and, yes, I did make it through Aus Der Box Skeptisch's post. Taking time dilation into consideration, the universe is divided up into many local reference frames, all of which measure their own time relative to the measurement of time in all other reference frames.

I think what I'm trying to say is, using time as a sort of measurement of time-distance will only be correct from our local perspective.

I guess we're only elaborating on the OP's statement. (By the way, OP, you needn't use caps, and disregard comments that seem to imply that what you say is too simple or is stating the obvious to others knowledge. I, for one, appreciate your post.)

[StarMountainKid]

From reading the OP's second post, if we can travel at near the speed of light, and therefore use our time dilation to shorten the billion year trip to a sorter duration from our time perspective, when we reach our distant destination, what will we observe?

Let us say it took us 50 years from our time-perspective due to time dilation to travel the 1 billion light years distance to our destination. Would the location of our destination have changed only 50 years from when we observed its location from earth? Or, would its location have changed 1 billion plus 50 years?

I would think its location would have change 1 billion plus 50 years, since our original observation of its location was as it existed 1 billion years ago.  In other words, our destination would have aged 1 billion years when we reach it, even though we reach it in only 50 of our time-dilated years.

So, even with time dilation allowing us to travel great distances in a short time, we wold have to calculate our destination's present location relative to its location when we originally observed it.

I could be mistaken, of course.

Stating time is space is, I think, one kind of a definition of 4-dimentional space-time.

Edited by StarMountainKid, 21 July 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

MR.Blueprint, on 21 July 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

THE UNIVERSE IS A RESULT OF REACTIONS THAT  CONTINUING  TO GO ON. DUST IMPLODING CREATING ELEMENTS THEN THEM ELEMENTS CRASH INTO THERE SELF CREATING MORE ELEMENTS AND SO ON THAT PROCESS IS WHAT MAKE THE UNIVERSE THATS WHY ITS STEADY GROWING.



NOW TIME IS SPACE BECAUSE WHEN WE ARE IN ONE PART OF THE SPACE ITS A CERTAIN TIME
SPACE IS ALWAYS MOVING JUS LIKE TIME.

LAST YEAR THIS TIME THE SUN AND THE WHOLE SOLAR SYSTEM WAS IN A DIFFERENT PLACE IN SPACE.
100 BILLION YEARS FROM NOW THE EARTH, SUN, GALAXY AND SOLAR SYSTEM WILL ALL BE DIFFERENT.

SO IF WE SEE A PLANET THATS MORE THAN 10 BILLION YEARS AWAY WE REALLY KNOW THAT WORLD IS 90% LIKELY TO BE DIFFERENT ALL TOGETHER.

GALAXYS MERGE OV BILLION OF YEARS CREATING NEW GALAXYS.

SO IF WE TOOK A BILLION YEAR TRIP
I BELEIVE BOUT TIME WE GET TO THE DESTINATION THE DESTINATION ITSELF WILL BE TOTALLY CHANGED AND MATTER FACT THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WILL BE DIFFERENT

AND NOW I THINK ABOUT IT I THINK MAJOR SPACE TRAVEL IS VERY UNLIKELY.
I DONT THINK IT POSSIBLE TO TRAVEL OVER A BILLION YEARS
HAHA YOU TALKING BOUT JET LAG



EVEN EARTHLING GIVE OF OXYGEN THAT CREATES MORE LIFE. OUR WHOLE EXISTENT IS BASE OFF ACTION AND REACTION THAT KEEPS LIFE GOING WE ARE PLANETS OURSELVES.
WE HAVE THE SAME CHEMISTRY AND WE HAVE THE SAME ACTIONS. WE ARE NOTHING JUS TIME AND SPACE WE ALL ARE THE SAME.
TIME, SPACE, PLANETS, EARTHLINGS ARE ALL THE SAME THING

I am disregarding the random parts not as an insult but to stay congruent to this topic.
Saying we will be in a different location is relative. The question would be relative to what? Every moment the solar system has completed a cycle around its specific center based on the time and place you want to consider as a beginning. So our solar system itself is constantly moving... yes. Now to expand on that our galaxy is in theory revolving around another point so yes again we would be in a different place. Its all cycles within cycles within cycles. But the different place is relative to which cycle tpu are measuring and we don't have enough extant evidence to say we would or would not eventually return to a specific point in space. And assuming space is infinite it leaves us with an infinite amount of possible locations to be at any one time. Would you care to expand on your discussion point and what you might be getting at? Albeit its an interesting discussion if it evolves properly. Though, continuous random points leaves this discussion to wide open to really discuss at length anything properly.
And do please click your caps button your posts will have the same effect if they are off. Thank you in advance.

[Paracelse]

In any case space and time IS not the same........... space and time ARE the same ;D  

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

Paracelse, on 21 July 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

In any case space and time IS not the same........... space and time ARE the same ;D  

Lol

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

BTW just to add I believe when tpu said our solar system edge is 40 years away you may have been referring to how long it would or has taken one of the satellites to reach our imaginary end point. Which is only dictated by the speed of the body traveling. Which I have no clue of the top of my head how fast it was traveling. It would be much faster as far as viewing the edge because of how fast light travels to our eyes and forty years is not even close to that mark. I'd have to use a formula to figure out exactly how long light takes to travel from our imagined edge to our earth. Since my time is almost up until Monday someone else will have to do the calculations if this detail needs to be discussed further. I'm thinking hours to days not years. Definitely not years.

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch, 21 July 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[MR.Blueprint]

when u let ur brain free and just think space is really a bunch of nothing that made somthing ov time.

it blows ur mind like jus think of endless space with little particles  that eventullay became mre complex particles
jus imagine a space of nothing and then rocks floating around in space and now we are here.
it jus blows your mind after u open your mind in the first place to comprehend it

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

OK light from our sun takes roughly 5.5 hours to reach Pluto our farthest known satellite in our solar system and the light from proxima centauri takes 4.2 years to reach earth so there are at least some references when considering this topic.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

MR.Blueprint, on 21 July 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

when u let ur brain free and just think space is really a bunch of nothing that made somthing ov time.

it blows ur mind like jus think of endless space with little particles  that eventullay became mre complex particles
jus imagine a space of nothing and then rocks floating around in space and now we are here.
it jus blows your mind after u open your mind in the first place to comprehend it

Remember size is only relative to how big we are. To something else outside viewing our universe it could potentially be the equivalent of an atom for us to them. Just food for thought. I agree though it is essentially mind blowing I will give you that.