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‘Get Over It’: Climate Change Is Happening


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#196    BFB

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:50 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 28 September 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Climate is how many inches of rain we expect to fall next year.

Doug

No Climate is 30 years of weather data.

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#197    BFB

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:04 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 27 September 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Predicted to start in about 10,000 years. Not exactly tomorrow, and clear proof that science understands the natural cycles which also contribute to climate change. The problem is that there is at least half the current warming beyond those cycles.

Br Cornelius

This is incorrect. As long as our global is warming more than 0.2 degrees we wont see another ice age. The currect warming has allready interrupted the cooling periode for over a millennia.

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#198    MidKn13ght

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:09 PM

Ofcourse the weather is changing....its part of "The Great Circle of Life" .... With our polarities going through a change its only natural for the weather to change...yes humans might of advanced the change a few months to a year earlier but i dont think its something humans can blame ourselves for it was gonna happen no matter what....


#199    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:40 PM

View PostBFB, on 28 September 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

This is incorrect. As long as our global is warming more than 0.2 degrees we wont see another ice age. The currect warming has allready interrupted the cooling periode for over a millennia.
Indeed - the 10K prediction is only valid for a none AGW world.

Br Cornelius

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#200    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:42 PM

View PostMidKn13ght, on 28 September 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Ofcourse the weather is changing....its part of "The Great Circle of Life" .... With our polarities going through a change its only natural for the weather to change...yes humans might of advanced the change a few months to a year earlier but i dont think its something humans can blame ourselves for it was gonna happen no matter what....
That maybe comforting to you - but to what actual phenomenon do you attribute this Great Cycle - would it be some form of God perhaps. If not can you be specific about the actual driver.

Br Cornelius

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#201    regeneratia

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:15 PM

I am happy with the statement that we don't know all there is to know about climate change.

You should be proud of your daughter.

View PostDoug1o29, on 28 September 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

The geological loop is just one of many feedback loops, both positive and negative that affect climate.  Some are well-known, others probably not even discovered yet.

I got the geological info from my daughter (a geologist) when we were discussing the effects of continental drift on climate.  I have also seen it in print, but at the moment, I don't recall where.  I suggest you use Google Scholar if you want to know more.
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#202    regeneratia

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:19 PM

I odn'ot believe in the climate crisis, if you mean that the crisis is anthropomorphic.
I still hold to the theories of evolution of the earth, the sun, and the cosmos.

Defining climate doesn't assist me in make my decisions about this.

And again, I still agree with the remedies, to reduce use of fossil fuels, only because I hate oil barons.
I am almost on the side of the abiotic theory on oil. Almost but not quite. Still on the fence.

But no resarch from Gore is yet coming for some strange and questionable reason. I read the reserach sites daily. I have not yet seen anything that proves his theory.
Perhaps you can provide some.



View PostDoug1o29, on 28 September 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

It is irrelevant.  We will reach a climate crisis long before we have to think about an ice age.  When will we reach "the crisis?"  Depends:  we are already seeing affects of climate change.  Was the drought that hit the midwest this summer a crisis?  It is if you're a farmer.  I expect things to get really interesting in the 2040s, or perhaps 2050s when the next drought cycle coincides with rising temps.

Weather is not the same as climate.  Weather is how many inches of rain fell yesterday.  Climate is how many inches of rain we expect to fall next year.
Doug


Edited by regeneratia, 28 September 2012 - 07:20 PM.

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#203    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:24 PM

Quote

But no resarch from Gore is yet coming for some strange and questionable reason. I read the reserach sites daily. I have not yet seen anything that proves his theory.
Perhaps you can provide some.

Gore is a politician - not a scientist. You can wait till hell freezes over before he produces a research paper.

I think you need to look elsewhere and stop believing that Al Gore has the slightest thing to do with climate science.

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#204    MidKn13ght

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:51 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 28 September 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

That maybe comforting to you - but to what actual phenomenon do you attribute this Great Cycle - would it be some form of God perhaps. If not can you be specific about the actual driver.

Br Cornelius

In this topic i was talking in general about the weather pattern. Eventually we are going to see same weather patterns of ages ago...."Ice Age" and "global warming".peat and repeat..Life itslef is just a simple pattern...but i guess that goes along the lines if you believe if time linear, or is it reacurring ...or is time simply a human "theory"...


#205    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:17 PM

View PostMidKn13ght, on 28 September 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

In this topic i was talking in general about the weather pattern. Eventually we are going to see same weather patterns of ages ago...."Ice Age" and "global warming".peat and repeat..Life itslef is just a simple pattern...but i guess that goes along the lines if you believe if time linear, or is it reacurring ...or is time simply a human "theory"...

I believe in cycles - but they all have attributable causes. I think science is about understanding those cycles.
I don't believe it is acceptable to call something s cycle without understanding its nature - its a bit of a cop out and doesn't enhance the understanding of a situation.

Br Cornelius

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#206    Doug1o29

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:48 AM

View PostBFB, on 28 September 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:


No Climate is 30 years of weather data.
And on what do you base your expectation?  On AT LEAST 30 years of data.

Weather is the specific measurement on a particular day.  Climate is the long-term average (and a range of values around the average).  Climate change is the amount by which the average changes.  Anthropogenic climate change is the amount by which human-induced conditions affect the average.

Let's not start picking nits.  I'm as good at it as you are.
Doug

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#207    Doug1o29

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:44 AM

View Postregeneratia, on 28 September 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

I odn'ot believe in the climate crisis, if you mean that the crisis is anthropomorphic.
The word "crisis" is somewhat arbitrary.  What is a crisis for one person (or species) may not even be a problem for another.  A drought that bankrupts an Oklahoma rancher may not even be noticed in Europe; or an unusually-high storm surge that washes away a whole nation in the Pacific, may be only a footnote in the morning newspaper.  The complete loss of 200,000 acres of pinyon forest in Colorado and New Mexico was a boon to ranchers because more grass means more beef, yet it destroyed the livelihoods of the Southern Ute families that made their living gathering pinyon nuts.  Disasters are slowly getting worse and the rate is accelerating.

Is modern climate change anthropogenic?  Man's activities release CO2 to the atmosphere (My daughter counted 18 flares visible from her most-recent well; each flare is 40 feet high and heats the well pad enough that the crew works in shirtsleeves in the 30-below North Dakota winter - in the Baaken, there is not enough gas to be economical to collect and sell, so they burn it off to keep it from collecting and exploding.).  The increasing atmospheric CO2 bears the isotopic signature of burning fossil carbon (like a chemical fingerprint).  The climate is warming fastest in the dryest areas - the "carbon fingerprint."  All you have to do is connect the dots - the the increasing number of "dots" is making it ever-harder to keep them apart.

Quote

Defining climate doesn't assist me in make my decisions about this.
That was a minor side-issue.  Fell free to ignore it.

Quote

And again, I still agree with the remedies, to reduce use of fossil fuels, only because I hate oil barons.
The big oil companies are really energy companies.  They see the writing on the wall - oil won't always be a fuel; regulation of fracking will reduce or eliminate gas drilling; wind is already more efficient than coal and oil and it likely will be cheaper than gas in the near future.  They're realists.  They know that limited supply, pollution, politics and profits dictate that they will be in the green energy business in the not-so-distant future.  Some already are.  Electric cars are already here and will be much more efficient only five years from now.  The energy business is going to change, is already changing.  They will be the ones selling you green energy.

The Koch brothers, T. Boone Pickens and others know this and are adapting.  The anti-green propaganda put out by the environmentally illiterate will buy them some time to convert and improve profits in the short run, but eventually they will have to go green.  By way of example, look at Chesapeake Energy - they over-invested in gas wells and are now desperately trying to sell some leases so as to remain solvent.  Folks are yelling at them about fracking and they aren't even drilling.

Quote

I am almost on the side of the abiotic theory on oil. Almost but not quite. Still on the fence.
You should talk to a petroleum geologist.  They seem to be unanimous in stating that petroleum is a product of once-living organisms in oxygen-deprived environments.

Quote

But no resarch from Gore is yet coming for some strange and questionable reason. I read the reserach sites daily. I have not yet seen anything that proves his theory.
Perhaps you can provide some.
Nor are you likely to see any research articles by Al Gore - ever.  He is not a climate scientist.  I think he has gone on to other issues, anyway.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#208    regeneratia

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:28 AM

Where is the intital research that penned CO2 as the climate change culprit? No one can find it. To discuss, we need to start from the beginning. Let's start with the original research that clamins that CO2 is the meanie behind climate change.


View PostDoug1o29, on 30 September 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

The word "crisis" is somewhat arbitrary.  What is a crisis for one person (or species) may not even be a problem for another.  A drought that bankrupts an Oklahoma rancher may not even be noticed in Europe; or an unusually-high storm surge that washes away a whole nation in the Pacific, may be only a footnote in the morning newspaper.  The complete loss of 200,000 acres of pinyon forest in Colorado and New Mexico was a boon to ranchers because more grass means more beef, yet it destroyed the livelihoods of the Southern Ute families that made their living gathering pinyon nuts.  Disasters are slowly getting worse and the rate is accelerating.

Is modern climate change anthropogenic?  Man's activities release CO2 to the atmosphere (My daughter counted 18 flares visible from her most-recent well; each flare is 40 feet high and heats the well pad enough that the crew works in shirtsleeves in the 30-below North Dakota winter - in the Baaken, there is not enough gas to be economical to collect and sell, so they burn it off to keep it from collecting and exploding.).  The increasing atmospheric CO2 bears the isotopic signature of burning fossil carbon (like a chemical fingerprint).  The climate is warming fastest in the dryest areas - the "carbon fingerprint."  All you have to do is connect the dots - the the increasing number of "dots" is making it ever-harder to keep them apart.

That was a minor side-issue.  Fell free to ignore it.

The big oil companies are really energy companies.  They see the writing on the wall - oil won't always be a fuel; regulation of fracking will reduce or eliminate gas drilling; wind is already more efficient than coal and oil and it likely will be cheaper than gas in the near future.  They're realists.  They know that limited supply, pollution, politics and profits dictate that they will be in the green energy business in the not-so-distant future.  Some already are.  Electric cars are already here and will be much more efficient only five years from now.  The energy business is going to change, is already changing.  They will be the ones selling you green energy.

The Koch brothers, T. Boone Pickens and others know this and are adapting.  The anti-green propaganda put out by the environmentally illiterate will buy them some time to convert and improve profits in the short run, but eventually they will have to go green.  By way of example, look at Chesapeake Energy - they over-invested in gas wells and are now desperately trying to sell some leases so as to remain solvent.  Folks are yelling at them about fracking and they aren't even drilling.

You should talk to a petroleum geologist.  They seem to be unanimous in stating that petroleum is a product of once-living organisms in oxygen-deprived environments.

Nor are you likely to see any research articles by Al Gore - ever.  He is not a climate scientist.  I think he has gone on to other issues, anyway.
Doug


Truth is such a rare quality, a stranger so seldom met in this civilization of fraud, that it is never received freely, but must fight its way into the world
Professor Hilton Hotema
(quote from THE BIBLE FRAUD)

Robert Heinlein: SECRECY IS THE HALLMARK OF TYRANNY!

#209    Br Cornelius

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:09 AM

View Postregeneratia, on 30 September 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

Where is the intital research that penned CO2 as the climate change culprit? No one can find it. To discuss, we need to start from the beginning. Let's start with the original research that clamins that CO2 is the meanie behind climate change.

You obviously didn't try very hard. This is the paper which kicked it all off and its about 110yrs old at this stage;

www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf

Hardly a radical new theory then.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 30 September 2012 - 08:12 AM.

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#210    questionmark

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:42 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 30 September 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

You obviously didn't try very hard. This is the paper which kicked it all off and its about 110yrs old at this stage;

www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf

Hardly a radical new theory then.

Br Cornelius

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