257 replies to this topic

[Darkwind]

Ever Learning, on 25 July 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Its got every thing to do with you as you dont choose to be better than those who have sinned before you, if you did choose to be better than those before you it would be fine. no one can be good as they can only be slightly better than the generation that lived before them. we are past the point of repair and jesus offers forgiveness for the sins you cant help doing

So it is my fault not gods.  Soooo all the people who have horrible illness and deformities are bad people and if they go to Jesus and ask for forgiveness their illness will go away. I get that a lot and you know what I say to it....  well darn.  I can't say it cause the of the website won't let me post what is going on in my brain right now.  I wish you could meet some of my friends who are locked in their bodies from MS. I had one (a former nurse) who used to drag me to her church services at her nursing home.  Now she can't talk, move, or see.  I guess Jesus didn't think she was good enough.   That is just a load of dingo droppings.  This is why I am rather intolerant of the  Abrahamic religions.

[Archangel Oger]

Lrak, on 25 July 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

I'm a Muslim, we are thought that God knows everything. He is omniscient.

Sorry to inform you but "God" doesn't know what one will do with the life "God" gives him/her....that falls right back to what happended in Heaven before....If "God" knows all and what is going to happen notice this little verse....

Genesis 6:5-6....

Think about it.....

[Mnemonix]

I'm no theologian, I just do as I'm taught.

[Seeker79]

Lrak, on 25 July 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

Can a straight answer be provided as to how these injustices are worked out and balanced on some level?

Which perspective do you want.

Reincarnation perspective: it dosn't matter, the person suffering earned that suffering in another life.

Materialist perspective: everything is an accident of matter and the laws of nature. The child's death contributes to the well being of the race through natural sekection.

Collective conciousness perspective: we are all one being living out different incarnations. That experience was chosen to provide contrast so that the joys of life can be fully realized.

Multidimensional spirit: we experience many things on different levels of conciousness. Death and suffering are apart of life and happiness. A cycle that is incomplete without the other.

Creator god perspective: god sends people to the material realm for some reason, being an infinitely powerful being its motives and reasonings are so far above your rational, that you cannot possibly comprehend, but many like to use their ultimately nieve rational to apply one set of values to the operation of the universe as a whole. It's laughable.

People live... We grow... We experience ....we suffer..... We feel joy.... Some of us die early or live Relative horrid lives... Some of us live wonderfully blessed lives. Then mabey we choose new lives and experiences.

If you were god, would you have it any other way? A sweet eternal paradise is a hell and a prison, we need the duality of existence so that we can experience joy and be alive. We must have a shadow for contrast and definition. I for one would choose to take my chances on earth rather than live in the spirit world for eternity.

[Darkwind]

Lrak, on 25 July 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm no theologian, I just do as I'm taught.

You never question what you are being taught?   Suppression of free thought is what cults do.  If a theologian tells you to kill, do you question that?

[Mnemonix]

Haha, it depends how willing I am to obey.

I would have just followed orders a while ago, but now I'm being more open-minded.

God gave me the ability to think, so I might as well use it.

[Uncle Pockets]

Lrak, on 25 July 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm no theologian, I just do as I'm taught.

Are you a practicing Muslim or ?

Its a bit hard for us to ask "why" do some things occur as we cannot understand the wisdom in most situations.

People may look down or even look away from a child who may be deformed. What will the parent do? Will he have sabr (patience) through out all of this and find his reward for giving love to this child, or will he reject it and find punishment for treating a creation of Allah swt in such way ?

I hope this was simple enough to get.  

[Mnemonix]

I pray 5 times a day, and read the Hadith and such.

Salaam, I do my best to pray and be a good Muslim, but there are some things in life that confuse me.

Sometimes I find difficulty in the religion, to tell the truth. If I just act like everything is fine, it feels like I'm lying. I think it's better for me to tel the truth than to lie about it.

Edited by Lrak, 25 July 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[sweetblue]

Lrak, on 25 July 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

I'm curious to hear some answers on what God's purpose for making some children born with defects or with sickness. I'm confused as to why. Does anyone have any ideas?

Also, I don't exactly understand why God has to test us. When we test someone, we do so in order to understand that person's abilities. But God already knows everything, so why does he have to put us through tests? Is it not causing unnecessary pain?

Just for example, If someone is going through a lot of problems, someone could say that God is testing him. I guess they mean that God is testing to see if his faith is strong by giving him a tough situation to weather through. But God already knows whether he is going to fail or pass. So isn't this test causing unnecessary pain?

Just curious because I'm a bit confused.

I'm a Muslim, by the way.

God does not "make" defects and illness, those things are bad and God only creates good.  Defects and illness are the result of bad in the world, either directly or indirectly related.  God is a healer and can certainly heal these ailments.  We often expect God to heal all and make everything perfect in our world, however, this is not heaven (so things will not be perfect here!) and God does expect us to grow through our individual experiences.  Some are extrememly painful, but if something is totally unbearable, God may not take away a problem, but rather make it bearable, since there is a purpose behind most circumstances.  God is loving, so He will always help with a problem that truly needs His help, whether it's the outcome we expected or not, it will always be a good outcome.  We don't always see the big picture.

As for "testing us"...you are correct, as God does already know all.  However, He does not test us to cause unnecessary pain (as we often see it), but instead, to help us grow in our faith.  Without trials, we cannot grow to understand and appreciate things the same way if we never experienced them.  These experiences are totally necessary and all people go through them in one form or another.  Without trials, we don't grow.

Hope this helps!

Edited by sweetblue, 25 July 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[shadowhive]

To be honest, I find some of the comments to this quite sickening. The ones that essentially say that people desere to be sick either because they're sinned or because some distant ancestor did. It sounds equally both ridiculous and disgusting.

I don't think there's some grand answer to why people get sick. They just do. The causes as to why depends on what the sickness actually is. Sometimes it's a flaw in dna replicating, some times it's something inherited or it's a random mutation. Sickness is rather random. It doesn't care who or what you are. Being devoutly christian or muslim or anything else doesn't grant you immunity to illness. Illness is just a part of life and it's something that effects us all.

I don't think god plays any part in illness. It's just a part of nature, just like dozens of other things.

Now if there was evidence that god did intentionally cause children to hae these illnesses and defects, it would disgust me. Just as it would disgust me if a human intentionally caused harm to a child, probabkly more so due to the sheer numbers involved.

Edited by shadowhive, 25 July 2012 - 09:23 PM.

[Uncle Pockets]

Lrak, on 25 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I pray 5 times a day, and read the Hadith and such.

Salaam, I do my best to pray and be a good Muslim, but there are some things in life that confuse me.

Sometimes I find difficulty in the religion, to tell the truth. If I just act like everything is fine, it feels like I'm lying. I think it's better for me to tel the truth than to lie about it.

I take it as you pray 5 times a day at home and not visit the mosque much? Very important to do both at the mosque as it brings us around people who know more about things that may confuse you.

We all find doubt when it comes to things that we do not know. That is why we have the ulema at our disposal as we are common folk, and cannot give our own opinions concerning hadeeth and qur'an. They spend their whole life learning.

A short explanation on your question is given with http://islamqa.info/...f/7951/disabled but if that does not answer then it may be a better choice to speak with another in person. It is our duty to seek knowledge as believers. May we be given tafsir on such things.

[shadowhive]

sweetblue, on 25 July 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

God does not "make" defects and illness, those things are bad and God only creates good.  Defects and illness are the result of bad in the world, either directly or indirectly related.  God is a healer and can certainly heal these ailments.  We often expect God to heal all and make everything perfect in our world, however, this is not heaven (so things will not be perfect here!) and God does expect us to grow through our individual experiences.  Some are extrememly painful, but if something is totally unbearable, God may not take away a problem, but rather make it bearable, since there is a purpose behind most circumstances.  God is loving, so He will always help with a problem that truly needs His help, whether it's the outcome we expected or not, it will always be a good outcome.  We don't always see the big picture.

As for "testing us"...you are correct, as God does already know all.  However, He does not test us to cause unnecessary pain (as we often see it), but instead, to help us grow in our faith.  Without trials, we cannot grow to understand and appreciate things the same way if we never experienced them.  These experiences are totally necessary and all people go through them in one form or another.  Without trials, we don't grow.

Hope this helps!

If I had developed a cure for a disease, but chose not to use it because the people that have it 'learn' from having it, would I be called moral or immoral?

[Arbenol68]

Lrak, on 25 July 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Haha, it depends how willing I am to obey.

I would have just followed orders a while ago, but now I'm being more open-minded.

God gave me the ability to think, so I might as well use it.

Good for you.

[Mnemonix]

shadowhive, on 25 July 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

If I had developed a cure for a disease, but chose not to use it because the people that have it 'learn' from having it, would I be called moral or immoral?

Yeah, I've been thinking about that.

[sweetblue]

shadowhive, on 25 July 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

If I had developed a cure for a disease, but chose not to use it because the people that have it 'learn' from having it, would I be called moral or immoral?

You are talking from a human standpoint, yes?  Then, by all means if you found a cure to help sick people, it is in your best interest and good intentions to give them that cure.  "Cures" and inventions or discoveries that help people are GOOD, so God is not against them.  In fact, God may have used you for that very purpose.

But if you choose to not help people when you know how to, just for the purpose for having them "learn" from it, then that makes no sense.  What would be your intention to have someone suffer to "learn" from it? (learn what?)  This is different than what I talked about earler about GROWING.  God doesn't want people to suffer.  Don't confuse that with someone that has a bearable condition that helps them grow spiritually.  Those that are suffering are not seeking comfort from the Lord, or do not have their relationship right with the Lord in order to have their prayers answered.  God will not purposely allow someone that seeks Him, to suffer an unbearable pain.  Sometimes what they seek is to be pain-free, in which God's answer may be for them to be pain-free in heaven (whereas the person expected to be pain-free on earth -- this is a case of not expecting the same outcome you hoped for, but that's because we do not always get exactly what we thought we wanted, but God's knows the best answer, of course!).  Remember that growing and learning are two different things.  There is nothing to "teach" someone from purposely withholding a solution that helps ease their pain.  God doesn't do that.  I know that one human purposely hurting another human is bad.  God always does what is right and good for us.  He will always make a trial bearable, at least.  It's not always the full pain-free that we want, but bearable is good.  Everyone that I know that has a bearable condition seems to understand that God is growing them and/or using them for the good of them as well as others.  It's always a good thing.  Sometimes people try to shoot down what God does because they don't see the big picture or have faith and trust in Him, but God is always good.  He is a God of love, caring and compassion and always does what's BEST for all of us.  Always!