where did consciousness come from out of gases and minerals and metals and the like
Isnt that a seperate topic??
"Never Apologize For Being Correct. Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. For being correct. For being you. Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you're right and you know it, speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth."
“What a treacherous thing to believe that a person is more than a person.”
Posted 28 July 2012 - 07:21 AM
You make the assumption that an all powerful all controlling being would perceive the universe in a "Cause" and "effect" manner.
Maybe he created himself. Maybe matter or energy manifested itself in a conscience all powerful being.
Maybe for the universe to exist it had to be perceived by conscious being. So out of sheer probability he happened.
Edited by Kazoo, 28 July 2012 - 07:24 AM.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." - H.L. Mencken
God, according to the theory proposed by Wise Men of old, has always been. You might ask, but Time and the Universe hasn't always been, they started somewhere, but this can be got around by thinking of Time as spiral rather than linear, or perhaps like a Möbius strip. I think the way I tend to look at "GOD" is as the force that is behind all of the laws of nature and of physics, and holds them all together and makes sure that they all work together, rather than as an independet entity or intelligence.
Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.
The New Richard Nixon, on 28 July 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:
Please people take this seriously.
My serious response is that there is no answer to this question. God has always been and always will be. There is a reason why He is God afterall, and why He can't be completely explained.
The fact is that something has to have always existed. Science states that you can't create "something" out of "nothing" (or at least it use to). There is some scientific way I've come across recently trying to explain how the Universe could have come about from "nothing," but in reading it it still implies that there was, in fact, something that always existed. So, with that being the case, I'm still left to believe that there is something that must have always existed in order for everything else to have come about.
I would think about this quite often when I was younger, and in trying to wrap my mind around it I realized that it simply can't be done. One is left with no choice but to realize something has always existed.
I believe in God for many reasons currently, but in my youth when I was trying to determine if I really believed in Him it was the realization that He must have always existed (from which everything else then came into existence) which made me realize that He does, in fact, exist and that there is no point in questioning Him any longer.
Edited by Angel Left Wing, 28 July 2012 - 08:24 AM.
That is a good question, i often wonder that same things. I am not overly relgious but thus is what i believe about gods orgins. Now god as being a spirt and a creator is the creator, nothing created god cause god has always been here.Before there was nothing the was god. He is creation, all the universes,the planets,the stars,what may ever be living on them.He is the god of all things, In Johns gospel he begins with "In the begging was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god, through him all thing were made, and there is nothing in exstiance that was not made by god". He is Alpha and Omega, The begging and the end. What created,god is creation and that is all we know.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
Posted 28 July 2012 - 08:41 AM
This very question, and the answers I received, were one of the catalysts in my becoming an atheist. Now the one hand I was being told that nothing could exist for ever, or spontaneous spring into existence and so the universe must have been created by a god. Then I was told that god existed for ever. My young mind reasoned that if a god could exist without beginning and end then it was not impossible for the universe to have existed without beginning or end, and thus there was no need for a creator for the universe to exist.
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001
My young mind reasoned that if a god could exist without beginning and end then it was not impossible for the universe to have existed without beginning or end, and thus there was no need for a creator for the universe to exist.
Doesn't that go against the scientific principle that you can't create something from nothing, though?
Also, in being an atheist, doesn't your comment above contradict your beliefs? In other words, if you do not believe in God (or "gods" as the case may be), how can you reason that His existence (which you don't believe in) having no beginning or end allows for the same to be true about the universe?
It would seem that you are basing that belief on the acknowledgement of a being that you don't believe exists to begin with.
Edited by Angel Left Wing, 28 July 2012 - 08:59 AM.