31 replies to this topic

[markdohle]

What are we here for?

Science can open a lot of doors for us.  If used rightly and not for destructive purposes our future could be very bright.  However it is not the only avenue for seeking to understand reality or our place in it.  We are conscious beings, with a higher brain, something that is quantitatively different from any other animal on earth.  There are highly intelligent animals and the more we learn about them, hopefully the sooner we will hopefully start to treat them with more respect.  Intelligence is not the same however as intellectual, which points to the ability to think in abstract ideas, create art and also the downside, to know about the shortness of life.

It is the higher brain that leads us to ask questions.  It also places us outside of Eden, our oneness with Nature is shattered, and we feel apart and alone.  So philosophy and theology came into the scene to give us a vehicle to be able to ponder the mysteries of our lives. Who we are, why we are here and also where we are going.  The higher animals can use tools, but they have been the same tools for perhaps thousands of years, well at least some of them.  Like using a stick to catch termites, or a crow dropping a rock on a shell to break it.  It would seem the animals lower on the evolutionary tree don’t need to ask questions or to seek deeper meaning; for they have all that they need right here and now.

Humans, the highest known animal on this planet seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to finding a place to call home, where needs are taken care of and rest can be achieved.  Once our basic needs are taken care of in this world, deeper ones arise, actually more important and more difficult to deal with.  We have an inner world within each of us; thoughts of love, justice, honor and peace.  These are not things that actually exist in the world outside of man, but reside in the soul of each that seems never to be satisfied for long….it can frustrating to say the least.  Perhaps it is the awareness of our deaths that cause so much of this.  The knowledge that nothing last at all, that we all die, and sooner than one would think.  For blink once and ten years have passed, time goes by that fast.

To attend to the rational only can make a human being into something very unattractive, cold and very difficult to be around.  Logic is good, we need to develop it, but we need more than that.  We have a spiritual side that needs to be attended to, or if we don’t it will attend to us in ways that can be self destructive.  We can use many things that help to make life bearable that are often addictive and in the end truncate life.  It is inner pain that pushes us to seek meaning.

This discomfort can be experienced as pain or boredom or in the many ways of being fearful or anxious.  For the truth of the manner is, we are not in control.  Well in little things I suppose, but in health matters, or the length of our lives, or the safety of our family and friends, or at bottom, outside of our control.  Though we of course seek to do that very thing, enforce control over life.  Is it any wonder that many of us suffer from so many aliments of the mind and emotions?  Like it or not, we all walk over an abyss and all the television, movies, sports and other diversions can actually do little to alleviate this typical, common, run of the mill angst.  People often tell me that they do not fear death, which may be believed by them, but in the end is not true.  Death is an experience that we will each go through, it is not some kind of abstract idea placed neatly into a religious or philosophic or scientific system.    None of us knows how we will face death until the time when we get the news from our doctors.  Life is hard, if not for the fear of death, I am not sure many would last into their latter years.  We are driven to eat, sleep and seek a way to survive in the world so that we will not starve.  It is true some will destroy themselves, but this often comes about from being mentally off balance because of some sudden loss, or pain, or depression; it is a form of escape.  That is why so much is done for those near death to try to make their transition easier and with levels of pain that can be borne, if they can’t be done away with altogether.

How we deal with death, our own, as well as for those we love has a lot to do with what we believe life is about, and what it is for.  The thought that when we die we simply cease is really not that bad of a belief, it can simplify life and when the end draws near and becomes too unpleasant, or painful, then to end ones life would be the rational and right solution….I understand that.  However if one believes that our lives have purpose, even if that purpose is not completely understood, then there will another way of looking at ones death, not only for oneself but also loved ones.

Is death and ending, or a continuation of life?  I believe that we do continue after death and by that fact it will color how I will look at my death.  Today there is study of the experiences, common ones, that happen to millions of people that point to something more, apart from the different religious and spiritual paths.  I also believe that these experiences were more readily accepted by our ancestors and these helped form many of our beliefs in an afterlife.  If indeed life has purpose, ending it prematurely may in fact be a mistake.  The elderly and the dying have something to offer all of us.  It is a time where we are called to expand out hearts to help, to comfort and accompany those on their last mile.

Life is difficult and in all other areas in our lives we are asked to work through our problems, which can be many and heavy laden.  So at death, we should all be accompanied and encouraged to prepare ourselves for what is to come…whatever that is.  Of course this will only make sense to those who have some belief in an afterlife.  If our deaths are seeds planted into the earth, then our continued life starts from there, bearing fruit or not.  So I think it is good to ponder the shortness of life and also how we can help birth others into the reality they are moving into.  Perhaps death is like birth, moving from a small seeming self contained world into something larger.

I think this is probable and not just flights of fancy.  If the universe were just the way that Naturalist say it is, then how is it that we can think, have ideals that don’t actually exist apart from our inner longings?  How is it we are self aware?  Everything that makes us human is based on intangibles; there is no reason for such realities to evolve if all there is, is material reality.  Everything that gives our lives meaning are spiritual in nature, this is true because we actually have souls.

[Artaxerxes]

We are spiritual beings having a physical experience.  We are here to experience duality and separation, time and space, and holistically imprint memories of what it was like and how it feels to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe.  

From the moment we are born life is one big long lesson in what it means and how it feels to be separate, from the moment we separate from our mothers and the umbilical cord is cut in two till the day we die and our deaths become a lesson in separation to the loved ones we leave behind.  The more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates.  

We here in this life can't begin to comprehend the overwhelming feelings of oneness and connectedness in "heaven."  It is a place where thoughts are things and consciousness creates reality, where time and space do not exist, and where the feelings of oneness and connectedness are overwhelming due to it's holographic nature.  The physics of heaven is the physics one might expect if one were living on or in the original holographic film that our Universe is a projection from.  

[Artaxerxes]

This Earth life is a school.  The soul's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and it is holistically imprinted with what it needs to learn regardless of who we are, or where we live, or what we believe. Belief is irrelevant.  Every soul learns what it needs to know whether it wants to or not.  The Creator of the Universe was smarter than we can even begin to imagine.  

Our Universe is a holographic projection and after we cross back over into the place we call heaven we will look back on this life like it was a "Dream in itself" as Michelle M describes it in her NDE description.   Everything happens for a reason, even the bad stuff.  This life has to be the way it is in order for the lessons we experience to be powerful enough to overcome the physics of the other side.  

If you want to become a separate, unique, individual you have to first spend some time in this universe.  It is impossible to learn what it means to be separate in heaven because of those feelings of oneness and connectedness.  Once having experienced separation, in every way, shape, and form imaginable then one can merge back into the other side and maintain one's identity on the other side.

[StarMountainKid]

Consciousness evolved from our unconscious universe from all natural ingredients. Our conscious reflections on our existence can create comfortable illusions to alleviate our anxieties about a seemingly purposeless cosmos that contains us.

The question, "What are we here for?" , is for us to individually decide in our personal lives.  But this decision is relevant only when we free ourselves from these self-created illusions, these 'extras' we like to add to a naturally occurring universe.

If we could admit to ourselves that we are just a conscious expression of nature, I think the humility that would result would create a better, more realistic world for us to live in.

Better to accept ourselves as a oneness with the natural world, than to create concepts that separate us from our true nature.

[Simbi Laveau]

Ehhhh,my soul is tired of all the lessons and all of that . I'm just here for the pie and creme brulee. Seriously .
Everything else is moot at this point.

[StarMountainKid]

Simbi Lavear said:

Ehhhh,my soul is tired of all the lessons and all of that . I'm just here for the pie and creme brulee. Seriously .
Everything else is moot at this point.

lol I admit it's the way I feel most of the time, too.    I just try to enjoy where I am at the moment, with all the lessons secure in the background. I think we must have some realistic foundation, though.

Edited by StarMountainKid, 28 July 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Kazoo]

This kind of over thinking is what leads to human misery. Everything has to matter! But yet nothing matters at all! Nothing is real! Its all in our heads! I HATE LIFE!

You are asking questions we can't answer right(and probably never will)  and being sad about the lack of results.

I don't need a grand philosophical meaning of life. I don't need hope and dreams and rainbows. Frankly I'm just happy I got the chance to exist and enjoy the little wonders of life. Like just being happy. Hanging out with friends. Learning things that people never knew before. If I die and I don't matter then oh well.  This entire universes does not matter.  Which means on a grand scale you matter just as much as the the entire galaxy. Which is not at all.

Assuming their is a God and a after life. Who are you to say that matters? Who am I. Or You. Or God. To decide what matters. Even if god is real. He matters only how much you say he matters. Its all just an opinion. Their is no grand scale of importance.  No one gets to decide whats important want whats not. Not even a God.

We are here for what ever we want to be here for. I get to decide this. No one else. No philosopher or religion or scientist is gonna tell me why I exist.

Edited by Kazoo, 28 July 2012 - 03:33 PM.

[Beany]

There are plenty of people who don't fear death. I'm one of them. Why must you think that I'm fooling myself when I say that? And it is here that our thoughts create things, based on our actions. Look round your room. Every thing you see began with a thought, as does your emotions & consciousness. And some of us have had the experience of being connected, being a part of the larger whole. We're not in that consciousness 24/7, but having experienced it, it's something we know and becomes part of what guides us. Last year there was a very long thread about this. How we perceive ourselves, how we perceive the external reality, varies according to our own beliefs, experiences, and knowledge. so what is true for one person may not be true for another. Can't we just say what's true for us without having to make someone else wrong, or crazy or stupid? There's value in being open to hearing of someone else's experiences & thought, if we are open enough to listen instead of judge.

[markdohle]

Beany, on 28 July 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

There are plenty of people who don't fear death. I'm one of them. Why must you think that I'm fooling myself when I say that? And it is here that our thoughts create things, based on our actions. Look round your room. Every thing you see began with a thought, as does your emotions & consciousness. And some of us have had the experience of being connected, being a part of the larger whole. We're not in that consciousness 24/7, but having experienced it, it's something we know and becomes part of what guides us. Last year there was a very long thread about this. How we perceive ourselves, how we perceive the external reality, varies according to our own beliefs, experiences, and knowledge. so what is true for one person may not be true for another. Can't we just say what's true for us without having to make someone else wrong, or crazy or stupid? There's value in being open to hearing of someone else's experiences & thought, if we are open enough to listen instead of judge.

LOL slow down my friend.....still, until the time comes, I believe none of us knows, because the fear of death has a lot to do with our bodies fighting to live, hence fear and anxious feelings.  If there is anyone who does not fear death, then perhaps it would be you and those who are like you ;-).

Peace
mark

Kazoo, on 28 July 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

This kind of over thinking is what leads to human misery. Everything has to matter! But yet nothing matters at all! Nothing is real! Its all in our heads! I HATE LIFE!

You are asking questions we can't answer right(and probably never will)  and being sad about the lack of results.

I don't need a grand philosophical meaning of life. I don't need hope and dreams and rainbows. Frankly I'm just happy I got the chance to exist and enjoy the little wonders of life. Like just being happy. Hanging out with friends. Learning things that people never knew before. If I die and I don't matter then oh well.  This entire universes does not matter.  Which means on a grand scale you matter just as much as the the entire galaxy. Which is not at all.

Assuming their is a God and a after life. Who are you to say that matters? Who am I. Or You. Or God. To decide what matters. Even if god is real. He matters only how much you say he matters. Its all just an opinion. Their is no grand scale of importance.  No one gets to decide whats important want whats not. Not even a God.

We are here for what ever we want to be here for. I get to decide this. No one else. No philosopher or religion or scientist is gonna tell me why I exist.

Thank you for sharing your philosophical outlook on life my friend.

Peace
mark

[markdohle]

StarMountainKid, on 28 July 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Consciousness evolved from our unconscious universe from all natural ingredients. Our conscious reflections on our existence can create comfortable illusions to alleviate our anxieties about a seemingly purposeless cosmos that contains us.

The question, "What are we here for?" , is for us to individually decide in our personal lives.  But this decision is relevant only when we free ourselves from these self-created illusions, these 'extras' we like to add to a naturally occurring universe.

If we could admit to ourselves that we are just a conscious expression of nature, I think the humility that would result would create a better, more realistic world for us to live in.

Better to accept ourselves as a oneness with the natural world, than to create concepts that separate us from our true nature.

All of your statements are based on an underlying belief about the universe, it is not science, it is philosophical stance, in the end, just an opinion. Because of that belief, your will interupt everything according to that belief, just as I do.  I do agree, we have to decide, but to believe in more than what we see, is not a way to deal with anxiety, it seeking after truth.  How consciousness could evolve out of an unconscious universe is something that science cannot answer, and most likely will not be able to.  

Thanks for you thoughtful comment.

peace
mark

Simbi Laveau, on 28 July 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Ehhhh,my soul is tired of all the lessons and all of that . I'm just here for the pie and creme brulee. Seriously .
Everything else is moot at this point.

I go for french fries everytime.

peace
mark

[Beany]

markdohle, on 28 July 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

LOL slow down my friend.....still, until the time comes, I believe none of us knows, because the fear of death has a lot to do with our bodies fighting to live, hence fear and anxious feelings.  If there is anyone who does not fear death, then perhaps it would be you and those who are like you ;-).

Peace
mark



Thank you for sharing your philosophical outlook on life my friend.

Peace
mark

Neither of my parents were afraid of dying, so perhaps that's the genesis of my attitude about death. No, we don't know what, if anything occurs after death, but we'll all find out eventually, for sure. It's my feeling that our energy goes on to become a different form amidst the whole. A flower, the sparkle of sunlight on water, a breeze, who knows? Since I'm guessing, I may as well guess something wonderful. I do believe we "live" on after death, just not necessarily in human form or with human consciousness. Maybe it's the possible loss of consciousness that people fear, rather than death itself, the loss of ego.

Edited by Beany, 28 July 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[markdohle]

Beany, on 28 July 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Neither of my parents were afraid of dying, so perhaps that's the genesis of my attitude about death. No, we don't know what, if anything occurs after death, but we'll all find out eventually, for sure. It's my feeling that our energy goes on to become a different form amidst the whole. A flower, the sparkle of sunlight on water, a breeze, who knows? Since I'm guessing, I may as well guess something wonderful. I do believe we "live" on after death, just not necessarily in human form or with human consciousness. Maybe it's the possible loss of consciousness that people fear, rather than death itself, the loss of ego.

Loss of control, the whole process of dying can be a scary experience, also like you said it is the unknown ;-)....quite a ride isn't it LOL....I not as serious I write, more of a clown really, in writing a different side comes out and I am happy about that.

peace
Mark

[Beany]

Kazoo, on 28 July 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

This kind of over thinking is what leads to human misery. Everything has to matter! But yet nothing matters at all! Nothing is real! Its all in our heads! I HATE LIFE!

You are asking questions we can't answer right(and probably never will)  and being sad about the lack of results.

I don't need a grand philosophical meaning of life. I don't need hope and dreams and rainbows. Frankly I'm just happy I got the chance to exist and enjoy the little wonders of life. Like just being happy. Hanging out with friends. Learning things that people never knew before. If I die and I don't matter then oh well.  This entire universes does not matter.  Which means on a grand scale you matter just as much as the the entire galaxy. Which is not at all.

Assuming their is a God and a after life. Who are you to say that matters? Who am I. Or You. Or God. To decide what matters. Even if god is real. He matters only how much you say he matters. Its all just an opinion. Their is no grand scale of importance.  No one gets to decide whats important want whats not. Not even a God.

We are here for what ever we want to be here for. I get to decide this. No one else. No philosopher or religion or scientist is gonna tell me why I exist.

I like that, not needing a grand philosophy. For me, what really counts are the small moments, since that's mostly how we live our lives, a long series of small moments. I feel like this is something I can understand & manage pretty well. In the end, for me, it;s not a philosophy or belief that's important, but instead what I do in the moment that matters, and how I think about things. I've given up searching for answers to grand questions that have no definitive answers. Being present in the moment is more than enough, I'm just happy to be here.

[Lilly]

I'm happy just to be here as well (age has a way of doing that to a person). Oh, and for the chocolate as well....*nom* *nom* *nom*

[markdohle]

Beany, on 29 July 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

I like that, not needing a grand philosophy. For me, what really counts are the small moments, since that's mostly how we live our lives, a long series of small moments. I feel like this is something I can understand & manage pretty well. In the end, for me, it;s not a philosophy or belief that's important, but instead what I do in the moment that matters, and how I think about things. I've given up searching for answers to grand questions that have no definitive answers. Being present in the moment is more than enough, I'm just happy to be here.

What you do in the moment is based on an underlying moral system and philosophy that you live your life by.  I don't like the comment that you are responding to, in fact I believe the exact opposite is true. Our misery comes about because we don't think about the bigger picture; it comes up not only in our over all culture of today down to the self destructive lives that many live.  Because they live in the moment and don't think, they just react out of lust, greed, anger or rage.  Marriages are destroyed because those married don't actually think what their vows actually mean, whether it they were taken before a justice of the peace or a minister does not matter.  Politicians become corrupt because they allow petty ambition and greed to limit the good they can do…. the list can on and one.  No, we need to ponder, seek deeper what we actually believe, live it consciously and then when something comes up and we have to make a choice, hopefully we will make the right one.  If we make the wrong one, then we will know it.  Life is not a beer commercial.

We are conscious, seeking to be rational beings, it bothers me when living a thoughtless life and a false devil may care attitude is seen as some kind of truth that will lead to a life worth living.....in fact it leads downward… look on any street corner at the those who just react and go with the moment, those who live by the bottle, or the needle or by violence.

Beany,  everything you say here is based on your well thought philosophy on life, I am surprised you would deny that, you would not be the person you are without spending time seeking answers and trying to live them out.

Edited by markdohle, 29 July 2012 - 10:39 PM.