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Evolution Vs. Creationism


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#871    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 04:53 AM

Don't forget

(D) It didn't happen at all tongue.gif


#872    Venomshocker

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 04:59 AM

Well, when it comes to a worldwide flood youll be ignoring alot of scientific evidence........... rolleyes.gif  

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#873    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 05:03 AM

The source of your scientific evidence listed mass extinction at 7000 BC... i would like to hear more about this.


#874    Venomshocker

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 05:24 AM

QUOTE
....evidence from the archaeoligical record which shows that over 10,000 species became extinct at the Pleistocene/Holocene boundary, which generally dated to circa 10,000 years ago, dated the worldwide Flood to 7640B.C.

The quote comes from the book Uriels Machine pg.58

The above quote was refrenced too:
QUOTE
Dubrovo, L: 'The Pleistocene Elephants of Siberia', Megafauna and Man, University of Flagstaff,1990,pp.1-8


If you really want all the detail I suggest you go to your local bookstore and read it for yourself. Theres way more scientific evedince, I just dont have time too list it all. If you want I have some of the info scanned in, I can send it to you, just msg me. original.gif

Edited by Venomshocker, 15 April 2004 - 05:25 AM.

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#875    Morpheus

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 05:31 AM

I think the best that we can hope for at this point is to agree to disagree, neither side is going to sway the other, so why bother? I mean if the whole point of faith is to believe in something greater than this, then so be it, hats off to those who can devote their lives to a greater purpose, whether it be God or Science. Brow beating eachother over the interpretation of exsistence is self defeating and I for one have too much respect for the lot of you to allow this to continue original.gif . Further more I am a man of science, not an athiest disgust.gif  just because I don't buy into creationism does not mean that I am without the belief of a higher intelligence/entity, you call it God, I call it the universe, point is at least we as a whole believe strongly enough in something that gives us all some hope, and with all the garbage thats been going on lately in this world of ours, maybe we all need to believe in something good, be it God, Buddha, Gaia or Science wink2.gif may the force be with you thumbsup.gif  


#876    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 05:46 AM

Well.. don't you think that the mass extinction is attributed to the flood (which is not), then wouldn't it disproves the biblical account of Noah ark? Isn't it said that Noah brought every single kind of animal at his time?

Anyway I would like to see any evidence of global catastrophy happening arround 10,000 BC. I will appreciate it if you would like to start a new thread on this topic.


#877    Morpheus

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 05:47 AM

Can't we all just get along crying.gif  


#878    Venomshocker

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 06:13 AM

I started a new thread on the Worldwide flood/Noah's Ark subject.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...ST&f=69&t=14929
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#879    trublvr

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 09:00 AM

QUOTE (PsychicPenguin @ Apr 15 2004, 05:33 AM)
QUOTE
Many Muslims in countries where preaching Christianity is punishable by death are still converting to the Christian way. This is not always the result of missionary activity. Instead, they are claiming to have visions of Jesus coming to them and talking with them, healing them of various ailments, or answering prayers. A great many people have claimed such things about different religious experiences.


The key point here is "different religious experiences." Religious visions and miracles can be found in all religions. The Ojibwa who live in northern plains and Great Lakes area of North America goes even further. All boys are expected to go through a vision quest to understand his goal and mission in life. It is indeed one of the unexplained phenomena of human mind. We should note however that Islam is the world's fastest growing religion. I think there is more visions of Muhammad among Christians rather than visions of Jesus among Muslims.


  PP,

       First, I intentionally placed the comment about various religious traditions to expand the phenomenon beyond the Judeo-Christian experience.  

      Second, I have never heard/read reports of Muslims or Christians have visions of Muhammed.  I have many Muslim friends, and I've been involved with Muslim-Christian dialogues for 5 years now, and no Muslim has ever claimed such a thing.  I'm not saying it's impossible or that no one has ever claimed this.  In Islam, though, (even in the mystical Sufi strain) vision experiences with Muhammed (or anyone else) are frowned upon heavily.  You see, because Muhammed is viewed as the Last Prophet, visionary experiences among many people could detract heavily from his unique status, thusly undermining some fundamental tenets of Islam.  Allah's final revelation to the world was the Qu'ran.  Any new revelation jeopardizes the uniqueness of Qu'ranic revelation.  Though mystical activity is not unknown to Islam, visions of Muhammed or other prophets or angels is generally not sought after, and may open one up to charges of shirk, which is "apostasy".  Islam is the fastest growing religion (Muslims are quick to point this out), but no Muslims are attributing this to visionary experiences of any kind.  

      

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#880    Phantom

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 10:43 AM

Yes. I thought we had this tackled. However, the thread again has become a "Does God Exist?" thread.

Although linked to the subject, I suggest to take the discussion back to Evolutionism vs Creatonism again.

Thank you.

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#881    trublvr

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Phantom @ Apr 15 2004, 11:43 AM)
Yes. I thought we had this tackled. However, the thread again has become a "Does God Exist?" thread.

Although linked to the subject, I suggest to take the discussion back to Evolutionism vs Creatonism again.

Thank you.


   You're right, Phantom.  My apologies to all for the digression.  

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#882    The Proposer

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (snog44 @ Apr 14 2004, 09:01 PM)
QUOTE
now I think most of you agree ,I have a bit of intelligence,now I design and create and post my posts,they are posted on a designed and created forum,on a designed and created internet,on a designed and created computer,that is fact is it not?
now what we disagree about is the poster/postee,is he not designed and created,we seem unable to agree on this,so using evolutionary theory,prove or theorise that trhe posts have come about spontaneously,or that they are products of an evolutionary proccess.


Congratulations! You have created something. Now, according to your own definition, you must be a god. If you'll go on to express that you beleive we are all gods, then I will accept part of your argument becuase it places limits on the notion of god. It still won't really explain where we came from, becuase god really couldn't invent god unless god was already invented, which would leave us where we started minus the assumption that intelligence and creation are somehow linked.

It would be even easier to say that you really haven't created something intelligent, only a jumble of symbols that may have meaning to you and I, but to the blind or illiterate means nothing. Part of it being intelligent would have to entail your creation to be able to express itself to any audience.

because I am able to create doesnt make me a god,the posts are fairly two dimensional,but are still capable of rousing an audience.,birds are able to create nests,nests come about via an intelligence.


#883    The Proposer

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 01:19 PM

QUOTE (Morpheus @ Apr 14 2004, 10:24 PM)
Again I see an almost desperate attempt to undermine the theory of evolution by attacking it with tid bits of physics, twisting portions of research to fit the dogma of whatever faith one may follow. As a man of science I can accept that I may be wrong, that is in fact one of the driving forces of science, making new discoveries and proving old theories wrong in whole or in part, I am guilty of using the word "fact" for that I appologize, I should have used some other word or statement, like "evidence shows" or "through extensive experimentation the conclusion was reached", I wish to make amends for that trespass.

       I have seen a post where it is postulated that emotional moral beings could not come from an unfeeling and chaotic universe, I have also read a statement which implies that because science is our vocation we must be athiest(or words to that effect). First off, I am a very spiritual person, I just do not buy the universe being created by one all mighty being, simple explaination or not. I concede that an intelligence MAY have been spawned by the creation of the universe which COULD have influenced life on this planet, but that is my belief and is in no way supported by any data, so I may be a Heretic, but I am no athiest. Finally the universe as a chaotic mess is somewhat of a misunderstood pseudobelief, if I remember my days in University(which is far to long ago for me to even indulge thank you very much rolleyes.gif ), even within chaos there is order, now before you go and say "see there, youve just admitted that God exsists" thats not what I meant, without going into waaaay too much detail Order and Chaos are kind of two sides of the same coin, neither can exsist without the other, and where there is a possibility for life, there will be life, in some form. Some here have the misbegotten notion that life is an acception and doesn't occur with regularity, Data shows that where the conditions exsist for life, there will be life. I challenge you creationists to provide me with a definative scientific model of creation, WITHOUT dipping into your book of scriptures, purely backed up by mathmatics and imperical data, then maybe we'll talk further, until then I am done with you people.

yes we created computers,they contain memory and there was a bluaprint in the design.you are trying to say slime created us or we somehow morphed from it,can you give a straightforward commomn sense analogy of how this occured.


#884    The Proposer

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE (Nethius @ Apr 14 2004, 09:49 PM)
QUOTE (The Proposer @ Apr 14 2004, 08:20 PM)
Also evolutiopn people I will challenge you to put forward a simple theory regarding the posts I have created.


now I think most of you agree ,I have a bit of intelligence,now I design and create and post my posts,they are posted on a designed and created forum,on a designed and created internet,on a designed and created computer,that is fact is it not?
now what we disagree about is the poster/postee,is he not designed and created,we seem unable to agree on this,so using evolutionary theory,prove or theorise that trhe posts have come about spontaneously,or that they are products of an evolutionary proccess.

yuo gotta get off this, i made a post, so this proves there's a god kick, it makes no sense!

where do even think this is related???  i made a post, so theres a god.  does this not sound incredibly stupid to you?

and you keep going on about common sense, well, my common sense tells me that there is not this supreme being, so who's right?

and about DNA being 90% the same as a frog...  honestly, i'm not DNA expert, but it makes sense to me, if we all originated from the same slime, then yes, alot of our makeup will be quite similar

if we were created by a god, why even have DNA?  let me guess your answer is, why not

sorry posted wrong quote above post is a reply to this quote.


#885    Seraphina

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Posted 15 April 2004 - 01:23 PM

QUOTE
birds are able to create nests,nests come about via an intelligence.


Clouds sometimes create the shape of recognisable objects; are they intelligent?

A virus, which is not considered a life form, is able to create clones of itself; are they intelligent?

Wind and rain can alter the shape of a land mass, creating a new landscape; are they intelligent?

Your arguement is so ridiculous, I do struggle to get my head round how you consider it a logical one huh.gif A majority of "creation" in nature takes place through natural means, not though the intervention of an organism altering its environment. The fact that your post is created by an intelligence, does not automatically mean that the universe has been tongue.gif  

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