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Roswell: Two Crashes, Not One

roswell coverup

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#241    Hawkin

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:25 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 25 August 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Why alienz are so perfect penetrating walls. and so dumb crashing their precious saucers all over the Earth?

Why do some people with an IQ of 130 or better let their homes deteriorate instead of hiring a contractor
to keep their house in good shape?

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#242    bmk1245

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:41 PM

View PostRyegrog, on 25 August 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Why do some people with an IQ of 130 or better let their homes deteriorate instead of hiring a contractor
to keep their house in good shape?
Good question. So, why? Alienz are (should be) better than that...
But, and there is crucial thing: there are some psychological effects that keep your mentioned folks in the state they are now, period. Thats the area of specialists, not the morons like my, or you.

Edited by bmk1245, 25 August 2012 - 07:46 PM.

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#243    Hawkin

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:14 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 25 August 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Good question. So, why? Alienz are (should be) better than that...
But, and there is crucial thing: there are some psychological effects that keep your mentioned folks in the state they are now, period. Thats the area of specialists, not the morons like my, or you.

Maybe the aliens had a psychological disorder and crashed if they crashed. Just because one has superior intellegence
doesn't make them invulnerable. Even Superman had Kryptonite. :w00t:

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#244    lost_shaman

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:55 PM

View Post747400, on 25 August 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

But my argument is that they wouldn't use the same vehicles that zip at faster than the speed of light through the unimaginable distances of space to then explore the planet once they'd got there. it's only sensible to use smaller craft, probably drones, to do that. And those wouldn't be immune to the hazards that would naturally come with exploring a new environment.

Why wouldn't they be immune to Earth's "hazzards"? Earth is just a simple normal little Planet, if anything Earth is going to be one of the 'safest' Planets an Alien could visit compare to what we know of other Planets. These Aliens would certainly have to have evoled on a very similar Planet with an Atmosphere, so what exactly would they find so 'new' and' hazardous' about flying around in Earth's Atmosphere?


View Post747400, on 25 August 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

* It's interesting how similar this line of argument is, incidentally, to the one that looks at ETs as infallible gods and argues that anything we can do is irredeemably feeble besides their omnipotence, I can't help thinking.

Why do you always seem to lament that which is painfully obvious? Clearly if "they" can get here from another star system their technology has to be so much more advanced than 'ours' to the point that there would be no comparison.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#245    Hawkin

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:35 PM

I guess to understand an alien is to think like an alien instead of trying to look at it from a human perspective.

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#246    Hawkin

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:56 AM

View PostRyegrog, on 23 August 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:


I found out you had a big sister and she has a middle name and you made that Possible. :yes:

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#247    Gummug

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:36 AM

I only read through a few of the posts so I apologize in advance if I missed something, but I also read there were two crashes, in a book that was very objective, imo. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of the book but I thought it was interesting that at the end he left the conclusion open and said that by now so much time has passed and the waters have been muddied so much that, as with the truth with so many other things, perhaps we'll never know the whole truth.

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#248    Kludge808

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 01:55 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 23 August 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

I agree with human error, but not technical. Even we have cars now that park themselves. I can see that it would only take a decent RADAR and a smart computer of put in some very good anti collision systems, if technologically advanced, breaking down is a ludicrous concept. You cannot take the risk that you will break down in space, that is mission over.

First off, I got out of the hospital Thursday where I'd been treated for a respiratory infection.   So I'm home, still sick as [phrase deleted that would have caused my Most Beloved DotNM to blush most daintily] but participation will be spotty at best until I can sit up for longer than 5 minutes without fatigue/dizziness.  And even then when Meli isn't around to do the Big Stick thing to take care of Papa.  This is kind of like the Big Stick thing daughters use on daddies to keep them in line.

Anyway, I'm going to answer this as an engineer.  Hopefully it'll help a little.

The best an engineer can do is allow for any imaginable failure modes.  It's the unimaginable ones that are the problem.  But they're part of the risk of going into space, an environment hostile to any being requiring anything vaguely resembling Earth-style conditions.  We know that.  Any space faring species does.  We - and they - also have a set of what's considered "acceptable risks" that go with space exploration.  One such that comes up a lot is radiation.  It's there and can be fatal to both beings and equipment but it's also part of being in space or at least this close to a star.  We do what we can about it but it won't go away just because it's an inconvenience.  Look at the astronauts sitting on top of a launch vehicle.

The more advanced space faring species have a definite lead on us in understanding and managing a wider range of imaginable failure modes but they also are subject to unimaginable ones.  (Well, unless they're gods in which case they don't need spacecraft.)  They learn from experience just like we do - and I would hope a darn sight better in some things - and have a far, far broader knowledge/experience base than we do but they are not gods.  They are fallible.  Neither they nor their machines are perfect.  They know just like we do that "fail safe" isn't and that the universal truism of "Nature favors the hidden flaw" holds sway.  And they know that they both have to be taken into consideration although in the latter case they have no idea what they're designing to avoid.  That just makes it a little more interesting.

There's more but my brain is shutting down again.  As it is it took me 6-7 tries to get this much done.  Maybe later when I'm feeling better?

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I just do not see aliens arriving with Class M Planets for Dummies in their little green hands.

You won't.  It'll be imbedded subcranially.

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#249    Kludge808

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 02:55 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 21 August 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

But what about important missions. Wouldn't more experienced be selected for that (as younglings I see less experienced pilots, not the age)?

I answered that.  Which is more important, flying a scout or commanding the ship that positions the scouts so they can do their thing?

The reason chain of command and rank structure are maintained is because they work and work quite well.  Everyone is in a position to provide the maximum benefit to the overall mission/ship/service/whatever.  This assumes manned scouts/probes.  I'm not completely convinced that is the case in 100% of the reported aliens/bodies situations.  From a practicality standpoint there's no reason to buy into the whole idea of manned probes/scouts for 99% of their operations since unmanned ones can achieve the same goals at far less per unit expense.

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If only we would had all data required, 100% would had been explained.

Errr ... ummm ... that's true of all of the unknowns.

Quote

SciFi ngly speaking you have something here.

I did say it was a hypothetical case.  Speculation is not outside the limits to discussion here.  In fact, this whole area - ET & UFOs - is ripe for speculation since in a great number of cases, that's all there is left.

Quote

It wasn't a riddle, just an example of fragility of our perception.

Okay.  I'm still terrible at riddles but at least now I know there wasn't one buried in there.

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#250    DONTEATUS

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:12 AM

We can always hope that they land during a Super Bowl Half time event ! THen we can Show then the best we have to offer from our world.
See ? This is why we have not been contacted. THey really do have access to our Internet and Radio,ect T.V waves. THis is a sad night indeed.
THe Horror ! THe Horror of it all !
Im off to pop myself into the oven ! :alien: :no:

This is a Work in Progress!

#251    Hawkin

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:13 AM

View PostKludge808, on 26 August 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

First off, I got out of the hospital Thursday where I'd been treated for a respiratory infection.   So I'm home, still sick as [phrase deleted that would have caused my Most Beloved DotNM to blush most daintily] but participation will be spotty at best until I can sit up for longer than 5 minutes without fatigue/dizziness.  And even then when Meli isn't around to do the Big Stick thing to take care of Papa.  This is kind of like the Big Stick thing daughters use on daddies to keep them in line.

Anyway, I'm going to answer this as an engineer.  Hopefully it'll help a little.

The best an engineer can do is allow for any imaginable failure modes.  It's the unimaginable ones that are the problem.  But they're part of the risk of going into space, an environment hostile to any being requiring anything vaguely resembling Earth-style conditions.  We know that.  Any space faring species does.  We - and they - also have a set of what's considered "acceptable risks" that go with space exploration.  One such that comes up a lot is radiation.  It's there and can be fatal to both beings and equipment but it's also part of being in space or at least this close to a star.  We do what we can about it but it won't go away just because it's an inconvenience.  Look at the astronauts sitting on top of a launch vehicle.

The more advanced space faring species have a definite lead on us in understanding and managing a wider range of imaginable failure modes but they also are subject to unimaginable ones.  (Well, unless they're gods in which case they don't need spacecraft.)  They learn from experience just like we do - and I would hope a darn sight better in some things - and have a far, far broader knowledge/experience base than we do but they are not gods.  They are fallible.  Neither they nor their machines are perfect.  They know just like we do that "fail safe" isn't and that the universal truism of "Nature favors the hidden flaw" holds sway.  And they know that they both have to be taken into consideration although in the latter case they have no idea what they're designing to avoid.  That just makes it a little more interesting.

There's more but my brain is shutting down again.  As it is it took me 6-7 tries to get this much done.  Maybe later when I'm feeling better?



You won't.  It'll be imbedded subcranially.

I totally agree. They are not Gods or they wouldn't use vehicles to come here. More advanced beings but they have their flaws.

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much skepticism
can make you narrow minded to all possibilities no matter how unconventional.

#252    lost_shaman

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 05:44 AM

View PostRyegrog, on 25 August 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I guess to understand an alien is to think like an alien instead of trying to look at it from a human perspective.

Well yes,... From a hypothetical arguement, that would be the point.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#253    psyche101

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 04:04 AM

View Post747400, on 23 August 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

How come there are still organisations like the AA, AAA, RAC, and whatever the Australian one is? AAA as well? that do big business assisting broken down drivers? Cars still seem to break down, and surely people wouldn't be complacent enough as to believe that computers and technoligical devices are so perfect as to never go wrong. Surely experience offers all the refutation you need for that.

You will find that vehicles for a specific purpose such as emergency vehicles rarely break down because they do preventative maintenance. And the checks are not as stringent as is needed for a space vehicle. If you break down in space you cannot sit on the bonnet and wait for someone to arrive.

View Post747400, on 23 August 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Besides, have you never heard of flights being delayed owing to technical difficulties? Even if they may not crash so often, technical difficulties still occur.

Aside rom the fact that the difficulties are on occasion not technical at all, I feel this illustrates my point. Pre Flight checks can hold up a hundred people because a light bulb has gone out. One just does not take such high risks is environments like space of the sky.

View Post747400, on 23 August 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

is it really so presposterous that an electronic gadget might go on the blink?  Well, you have more faith in technology than I do.

It would seem that I do, but as I have worked in and designed things like ICU's and heart monitored areas, I feel I have seen more advanced technology than you may have. Can't say I have ever heard of a defibrillator that broke down.

View Post747400, on 23 August 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Anyway, I'm talking more about simple error, and that could come from all sorts of things, like inputting the wrong data for instance. That's happened  to space probes, hasn't it.

Space probes have failed yes, but I am not sure if the overall result is due to data or human error, Phobos Grunt I believe may have failed due to power fluctuations. Apollo 13 suffered technical difficulties, each mission presents it's own set of problems, but I think that is the point of the short hops we are doing now. If you have a small problem in space, it's mission over. So we try to get it right now before we take that one big step. I think the big key here is the usage of the word probes, where human life is not at stake I think the parameters are lowers as fewer conditions need be met.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#254    psyche101

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:23 AM

View PostRyegrog, on 23 August 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

They must pay well.

Wow. I must say that was a poor comeback indeed. Best you could do?


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Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#255    psyche101

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:25 AM

View Post747400, on 25 August 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

* It's interesting how similar this line of argument is, incidentally, to the one that looks at ETs as infallible gods and argues that anything we can do is irredeemably feeble besides their omnipotence, I can't help thinking.

I don't see it like that, all I see is removing human error from the equation.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who





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