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Roswell: Two Crashes, Not One

roswell coverup

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#91    DONTEATUS

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:58 AM

Will it ever stop ? I say take those Balloons and Lets have a Party !  Go Team  Go !
:tu:

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#92    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:10 AM

View PostRyegrog, on 11 August 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

Years later they say it wasn't a disk or weather balloon that crashed but a balloon from project Mogul which was secret
because it was monitoring Soviet activity. It would seem if it was secret they would keep tabs on the other Mogul Balloons
and recover them and not just the 1 from roswell.

We now know that the balloon Gen. Ramey showed in his office was not from Project Mogul.  I don't know where they got it from but it was not what they said.


Gen. Ramey's solo balloon too little and in too good shape to be Mogul balloon


Experiments by engineer Robert Galganski and former Project Mogul engineer Charles Moore show rapid deterioration of neoprene weather balloon material when exposed to sunlight.  Galganski showed the neoprene darkening and stiffening in only 5 hours.  Moore's many experiments showed the new milky white balloons deteriorating to brittle, black, tattered, ash-like  pieces within 2 to 3 weeks.  Yet according to the Mogul proponents, the balloon Ramey displayed was collected a full month after the alleged Mogul flight.  It is darkened but still seemingly mostly intact, has a mottled appearance with many light patches instead of completely black, and has many rounded folds and pleats giving it an appearance of still having rubberlike pliability instead of being brittle.  Thus the photos taken illustrate a slightly used neoprene balloon, not one sitting in the hot New Mexico sun for a month. Also there is very little balloon material there.  My measurements indicate it would fit in a shoebox.  It is probably the solo balloon Ramey said it was.  Yet the alleged Mogul would have consisted of at least two dozen such balloons.  Ramey's single balloon of recent origin alone practically disproves that a Mogul from the previous month was recovered.  Ramey's single balloon was instead substituted for whatever was actually found, as his chief of staff, Gen. Thomas Dubose and Roswell intelligence officer Jesse Marcel said was the case.


http://roswellproof.homestead.com/ProjectMogul.html




#93    Alantheanylyst

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:26 AM

View Post747400, on 06 August 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Well, I think the "Experimental US Airplane" can probably be filed under the heading of "the imaginative"; he doesn't seem to mention (in the story at any rate) what said airplane was, nor why, if the Secret weapon was so effective it was able to bring down an Extraterrestrial craft, it didn't become a standard part of the USAF armoury. It must surely have been useful in Korea and vietnam and against the Russkies.
* I know, maybe it was, but it's been kept Secret ever since, and is used only by the mega-Secret squadron that deals with UFO interceptions. It could be that, of course.
Sounds like disinformation to me .

Set up a straw man argument ,have it shot to pieces and hey presto the Roswell incident  loses  credibility.

And any  witness testimony loses potence.

Edited by Alantheanylyst, 11 August 2012 - 09:28 AM.


#94    Kryso

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:15 AM

Interesting. The first time I've heard about there being two crafts!


#95    Hawkin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 August 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

We now know that the balloon Gen. Ramey showed in his office was not from Project Mogul.  I don't know where they got it from but it was not what they said.


Gen. Ramey's solo balloon too little and in too good shape to be Mogul balloon

Experiments by engineer Robert Galganski and former Project Mogul engineer Charles Moore show rapid deterioration of neoprene weather balloon material when exposed to sunlight.  Galganski showed the neoprene darkening and stiffening in only 5 hours.  Moore's many experiments showed the new milky white balloons deteriorating to brittle, black, tattered, ash-like  pieces within 2 to 3 weeks.  Yet according to the Mogul proponents, the balloon Ramey displayed was collected a full month after the alleged Mogul flight.  It is darkened but still seemingly mostly intact, has a mottled appearance with many light patches instead of completely black, and has many rounded folds and pleats giving it an appearance of still having rubberlike pliability instead of being brittle.  Thus the photos taken illustrate a slightly used neoprene balloon, not one sitting in the hot New Mexico sun for a month. Also there is very little balloon material there.  My measurements indicate it would fit in a shoebox.  It is probably the solo balloon Ramey said it was.  Yet the alleged Mogul would have consisted of at least two dozen such balloons.  Ramey's single balloon of recent origin alone practically disproves that a Mogul from the previous month was recovered.  Ramey's single balloon was instead substituted for whatever was actually found, as his chief of staff, Gen. Thomas Dubose and Roswell intelligence officer Jesse Marcel said was the case.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/ProjectMogul.html



In that interview of Frankie Rowe that I mentioned earlier, She said her father who was on the Roswell Fire Dept, handled some of the material
from the supposive crash and some of it was foil like. The men would wad it up and it would unfold itself. also they tried to burn and cut it and
couldn't do any damage to it.

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much of it can make you arrogant & egotistical.

#96    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:47 PM

View PostRyegrog, on 11 August 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

In that interview of Frankie Rowe that I mentioned earlier, She said her father who was on the Roswell Fire Dept, handled some of the material
from the supposive crash and some of it was foil like. The men would wad it up and it would unfold itself. also they tried to burn and cut it and
couldn't do any damage to it.

That's what Jesse Marcel and many other witnesses said about it as well, but we know that wasn't the same material Gen. Ramey showed the reporters in his office.  Wherever that particular balloon wreckage came from, it wasn't from the crash site and probably not even from Project Mogul.


#97    DONTEATUS

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:37 PM

Well we will never know then ,time to move on  I guess ! Now Anyone for a trip to Bransons Space Port ?

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#98    lost_shaman

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 August 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

  Wherever that particular balloon wreckage came from, it wasn't from the crash site and probably not even from Project Mogul.

Of course not. Newspaper photos from the following days show AAF personell flying RAWIN targets for the Press just down the Street from Ramey's office, these are exactly the same type seen on the floor in Ramey's office in the famous photos. Dubose said he went and got a RAWIN target and tore it up for the photos. He didn't have to go far to get one.

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#99    Hawkin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:53 PM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 11 August 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Well we will never know then ,time to move on  I guess ! Now Anyone for a trip to Bransons Space Port ?

Texas is big enough to be it's own planet. Even the wabbits are as big as bobcats. :tu:

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much of it can make you arrogant & egotistical.

#100    psyche101

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 04:32 AM

View PostRyegrog, on 11 August 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

Years later they say it wasn't a disk or weather balloon that crashed but a balloon from project Mogul which was secret
because it was monitoring Soviet activity. It would seem if it was secret they would keep tabs on the other Mogul Balloons
and recover them and not just the 1 from roswell.


Weather balloons and MOGUL balloon come form the same store, they are essentially the same thing, what was strapped to them made the difference. The USAF always said it was a balloon, they just said it was a weather balloon.

They did try to recover MOGUL apparatus, that was the point of the danger tags attached to them. Some even claimed the balloons had flammable or explosive components, which was not true at all, it was a ruse to recover some of the equipment, and learn where it had landed.

The balloon arrays were never regarded secret, nor what was on them. Only the readings the equipment took were of any value.

Edited by psyche101, 13 August 2012 - 04:32 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#101    psyche101

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 04:35 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 11 August 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

That's what Jesse Marcel and many other witnesses said about it as well, but we know that wasn't the same material Gen. Ramey showed the reporters in his office.  Wherever that particular balloon wreckage came from, it wasn't from the crash site and probably not even from Project Mogul.


View Postlost_shaman, on 11 August 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Of course not. Newspaper photos from the following days show AAF personell flying RAWIN targets for the Press just down the Street from Ramey's office, these are exactly the same type seen on the floor in Ramey's office in the famous photos. Dubose said he went and got a RAWIN target and tore it up for the photos. He didn't have to go far to get one.


A question I have for both of you, if the material Irving Newton looked at aka the photographed material was not the real deal, why would Marcel try to convince Newton that what Newton was looking at was the debris he had collected?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#102    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 03:24 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 13 August 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

A question I have for both of you, if the material Irving Newton looked at aka the photographed material was not the real deal, why would Marcel try to convince Newton that what Newton was looking at was the debris he had collected?

My best guess is that Newton was just saying what Gen. Ramey ordered him to say, and that Marcel and DuBose went along with it because they were also under orders.  I think it bothered them, though, and years later Marcel and DuBose stated that the wreckage had nothing to do with what was found at the Roswell crash site.  Even Ramey was under orders from Washington for that matter, basically to give the media and the public this balloon story.


#103    DBunker

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:45 PM

Roswell is as dead as a flat cat at the side of the road..... evidence of ET wise.

Now that communications technology has made it possible to give global reach to the bizarre and archive it forever, it is essential for men and women of reason resolutely to counter the delusions of the fringe element. James S. Robbins

#104    Sweetpumper

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:49 PM

View PostDBunker, on 13 August 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Roswell is as dead as a flat cat at the side of the road..... evidence of ET wise.

It's dead, trust me. No need to add the 'evidence of ET wise'.

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#105    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:28 PM

View PostDBunker, on 13 August 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Roswell is as dead as a flat cat at the side of the road..... evidence of ET wise.

Why did they lie so much about it, DB?  Think a minute.

We have proven that they did, and that the wreckage they showed was not from the crash site and not from Project Mogul.  Now do you have an explanation for all the lies over so many years, as well as the missing records?

This is the type of thing that stands out and demands an explanation, don't you think?  I do.






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