44 replies to this topic

[WilliamW]

From Prison to Paradise.

The focus should be on the solution to the world’s problems.

Are we Human Beings able to build a paradise on Earth?

What are the obstacles to achieving this?

How can these obstacles be addressed and hypothetical workable alternatives created and made real?

Ask yourself this. In relation to the world you live in, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

What are the major problems of the world today?

We are building and refining systems which are traceable to ancient times.  These systems have been handed down from generation to generation and taught to us as something which is worthwhile investing our lives into and they are showing themselves to be inadequate to our fast changing world and in need of serious overhaul or even to be abandoned in favour of a new system.

We have put men on the moon.  There is no reason why we cannot make a paradise of the world, rather than the prison is has been for many and is becoming for more.

Is it possible to create a hypothetical workable system which is based on equality and true freedom for everyone?

I think that it is.

I think that the collective human potential to move forward and to succeed through wisdom and foresight and create on this planet something every person can be proud to be a part of and think of as worthy of giving ones life time to without hesitation and with genuine commitment and unreserved trust that the outcome can only be good for one and for all.

Since ancient times we have been told that we have to earn the right to life – to the things that help sustain life.

Food.

Clothing.

Shelter.

Health.

In times when such things were a matter of survival and our tools were limited, we had no choice but to cooperate with whatever system was in place, and regardless of the overseeing power or where they got their authority from or claimed to get their authority from or how they chose to treat those they ruled, we had to put up with it or die.

Those systems are still in place and in today’s world are more efficient and effective in terms of maintaining control and directing human beings wherever the directives wished.

Yet the systems are proving to be useless for anything other than suppression and control.  We are prisoners on our own planet and we are losing.

We have been led down the garden path and fed on false promises and our selfish side has agreed to this and most of us in some way use others to our advantage and consider this smart and acceptable practice, even sanctioned by nature itself.

We tell ourselves that this is how evolution works, or this is how some god concept wants it to be.  We tell ourselves this because we have been taught to believe it and if some are disadvantaged by our choices and are not intelligent enough to see, then that is their problem.

That is their lot in life.

They lose.

That is how things are done in prison.

But we are all in this together and we will either make it here or we will fail.  We are not going anywhere ‘out there’ any time soon.
This is the place and we can continue building our prison – securing it for our children’s future, just as our parents have done with their choices, or we can say enough already, time for a complete change and get about making it so.

We can think about building paradise instead and find a way to make it a reality.

[The Id3al Experience]

We can my friend I completely agree.

One problem. Power.

In the good old days, im sure we had more power as people. I beleive now we have none, we just think we do.

There are to many people out their that do not think for themselves, and the powers at the top rely on these people that have been through hell in life and do no understand that it is, the very people that 'help' them is the same reason they needed that help in the first place.

Kind Regards,

Edited by The Id3al Experience, 07 August 2012 - 02:06 AM.

[WilliamW]

The Id3al Experience, on 07 August 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

We can my friend I completely agree.

One problem. Power.

In the good old days, im sure we had more power as people. I beleive now we have none, we just think we do.

There are to many people out their that do not think for themselves, and the powers at the top rely on these people that have been through hell in life and do no understand that it is, the very people that 'help' them is the same reason they needed that help in the first place.

Kind Regards,

The idea is to create a hypothetical workable plan – put it through the critical thinking wringer as it grows and adjust accordingly.

It is a huge task which will require the input of many individuals and it come from the bottom layer of the hierarchal pile – namely us peons.

The illusion is that the power is in the hands of the prison administrators – governments etc and this pattern repeats itself through the layers of society down to the local government and admin.

The media often refers to ‘Government’ as if this was a separate entity from ‘the people’ which as you point out, has become the understanding.
So when – for example – we hear the expression “The Government will get such and such” we don’t think of us the people.

Now we know of the various conflicts happening in the Middle East where dictatorships are being challenged by the people and the people are demanding democracy as a better alternative, and we can agree that compared to what they have, it is a better alternative.

However it is not the best alternative.  There is still gross inequality, and great dysfunction.

I remember when the ‘Occupy’ events were news.  I remember seeing a smug wall street suit ask some of the protesters “what do you want” and various replies were forthcoming.  The suit replied “So what is your plan – show me your plan.”  There was silence to this request.

The simple reason for this is that we don’t have a plan – we want action, we want change and we expect the big guns to come up with something which is fair and just?

So – we need a plan which cannot deny us as democracy… ‘We The People’

So on that subject, it is necessary to approach such a task with the assumption that there is no conspiracy and work it from that angle – keep conspiracy out of the equation.

What we need at the end of this process is something which is foolproof as a model – in other words it can be seen as a workable alternative where no one is disadvantaged and it needs to be simple enough for the average person to understand.

When this is achieved then the internet can come into play as a medium for speeding the process of getting it out there – but that comes later on – we know that things can go viral so such a plan needs to have this in mind because it needs to be something which grabs the attention and support of as many as possible, the advantage being that most people are in the ‘disadvantaged’ category, even by their own estimate.

Before this can happen, the plan must grow enough and be circulated within forums, blogs and other such mediums in order for it to be added to, critiqued and supported by as many as possible.

It has to exclude ‘dreaminess’ – this is where critical thinking will come into play – the plan needs to be neutral in regard to any belief systems and pass the most sceptical analysis.

While the plan must envision the whole world, it must start within the context of the so-called free world of democracy which is to say that any such plan at the point of induction has to come from the free world and spread out as it will into the less democratic countries.

I have plenty of ideas which I think can work.  Any concerns or criticisms can be addressed as they come, but those criticisms must also come from a place of non-conspiracy related foundations.

This is to say – anything not proven as an actuality in regard to free world government agenda cannot be used to argue against any such plan being realised.

Thoughts?

[Professor T]

Hey hey, another great post that gets me going.. Good one WilliamW.

Are we Human Beings able to build a paradise on Earth?
As the great Obama said it, YES WE CAN!

What are the obstacles to achieving this?
People & the monetary system are the obstacles.
The trouble is the great Obama is just the most popular prison guard & the big corporations are the Wardens. Their idea of Paradise is everyone else's idea of a Prison. Big Government and big Corporations are the greatest obstacles we face to achieving a Paradise because they have the power/money which we the prisoners have given them.. We have all been indoctrinated from birth into their system, their prison. We are lead to believe that money makes the world go round but in reality money is just their means of controlling and enslaving us.
We are all slaves to Money & the system. We are all part of the problem & ironically we are also the solution. People need to realise that we are prisoners to this systembut nomost people worship the system & sustain it. Ergo, I believe the biggest obstacles lay with waking people up to this problem before the problem slaps them in the face..
People need to wake up and see the truth.
People need to demand a system change and ditch all forms of money/currency.
People need to take back control of Government back from the Corporations.

How can these obstacles be addressed and hypothetical workable alternatives created and made real?
IMO yes there are alternatives. But  the transition won't be pretty..
We are the kind of race that don't see ultimate truths until it's staring us in the face. To use some metaphors, we will dig ourselves into holes, we rush towards the proverbial precipice like lemmings and stand on the edge before we realize it was a bad idea. A system/illusion like the one I've detailed will eventually collapse and a new one take its place. Already there are signs that the system is failing such as the banking crisis & significant rises in civil unrest, Occupy Wall street ect... These are IMO symptoms of a deepening crisis that started with Austerity and will end with Civil Wars of Biblical proportions before the People will be able to start building paradise.
IMO, the alternative will be a society based on rights, not any form of Currency. With basic rights to all, but more rights granted to those who actively work to the betterment of all society.  

Ask yourself this. In relation to the world you live in, are you part of the problem or part of the solution?
Up until about 1 year ago I was part of the problem working for a big corporation. I left.. Now I am struggling financially, but hey, at least my conscience is now clear, better poor than rich I say.


What are the major problems of the world today?
Money/Currency.
There can be no corruption in a society with no currency.
There can be no greed in a society with no currency.
There can be no wars in a society where knowledge and technology & recourses are freely shared for the good of all mankind. If you took away all forms of currency then most of the evil is this world would lose its motive/incentive to exist.

People are also the problem.
We support this system every day.. Actually, we worship it like indoctrinated followers. (if you don't believe me, try spending a day without using money or even thinking about it.)  

Edited by Professortaylor, 07 August 2012 - 04:22 AM.

[WilliamW]

A great reply PT.

In a nut shell then, the problem is everyone, not just the administration.
While I would say that in comparison to the peons, the admin and guards enjoy a ‘paradise’ it is not really the case.

I think we need to understand that there are many, many individuals in positions of responsibility and governance who are very concerned about the direction we are heading as a specie and they may well regard the biggest barrier to solving the problem is the very peons – who when agitated can and do react with mob mentality.

It is very feasible that if we same peons were to – uncharacteristically - present a workable plan, this would be seen as a positive sign – something like prisoners creating their own rehabilitation utilising what is available to them within the structure of the prison resource but having no immediate power to pull the levers and get things underway.
Perhaps the problem with everyone is that we have such a low opinion of ‘being human’ that we have lost or simply never inherited a human kindness at least not one which embraces all humans.

I will share next some outline of the ‘plan in my head’ perhaps in a way which presents an imagined society already existing in the paradise created and from there…reverse engineer in order to see the steps that were necessary in order to Make It So…to give some substance of authenticity to the “Yes We Can!” expression.  

[notoverrated]

im not sure i would enjoy paradise.

[Paracelse]

Why were Eve and Adam kicked out of paradise again??? Lemme think! hummmmmmmmmm oh yeah I remember:  Stagnation!



Edit to add I don't believe in the bible, but this is a great illustration of what I'm trying to say

Edited by Paracelse, 07 August 2012 - 05:38 AM.

[WilliamW]

notoverrated, on 07 August 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

im not sure i would enjoy paradise.

Good point

What is it about the present system you live in which provides you enjoyment which you think may be curtailed in a system of equality?

[WilliamW]

Paracelse, on 07 August 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Why were Eve and Adam kicked out of paradise again??? Lemme think! hummmmmmmmmm oh yeah I remember:  Stagnation!



Edit to add I don't believe in the bible, but this is a great illustration of what I'm trying to say

What you are trying to say is confusing and does not make a point.  The story you refer to is not about being kicked out of some paradise so's not to stagnate.  
A good example to that story's parable can be read in this thread:
http://forums.randi....ad.php?t=239500

Some examples of signs of stagnation include:

Unemployment.
Obesity
Too much leisure time
Drug abuse
Traffic congestion.
Poisoning of water and land
Consumerism
Poverty and starvation  
etc...

[Super-Fly]

Quote

Are we Human Beings able to build a paradise on Earth?

Wouldnt we already have done so if we could?

Thanks,

[Paracelse]

WilliamW, on 07 August 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

What you are trying to say is confusing and does not make a point.  The story you refer to is not about being kicked out of some paradise so's not to stagnate.  
A good example to that story's parable can be read in this thread:
http://forums.randi....ad.php?t=239500

Some examples of signs of stagnation include:

Unemployment.
Obesity
Too much leisure time
Drug abuse
Traffic congestion.
Poisoning of water and land
Consumerism
Poverty and starvation  
etc...

You don't see a point because you don't wanna... no one is more blind than one who refuses to see.  Paradise means perpetual present, without future nor past, thus stagnation.  The apple, the fruit of knowledge is what gives a choice.  What you are scribbling are wrong choices.

[WilliamW]

Paracelse, on 07 August 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

You don't see a point because you don't wanna... no one is more blind than one who refuses to see. Paradise means perpetual present, without future nor past, thus stagnation.  The apple, the fruit of knowledge is what gives a choice.  What you are scribbling are wrong choices.

Note:  Strikeout denotes unnecessary personal commentary against another so please try to refrain from using such expression in the present future.
Thank you.

Perpetual present comes about because of past and within the present is the opportunity to create a future and I dear say most individuals - as well as yourself - think about the future in your present moment, even to the point of making sure you have food and water for the time in the future when you know you will be hungry or thirsty.  This is a preparation process, which is the basis for the subject of this thread, thus has everything to do with now.

[WilliamW]

Super-Fly, on 07 August 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Wouldnt we already have done so if we could?

Thanks,

I think that we have never seen any need to do so, and many are still in this state.  Another way of looking at it might be to think - "Perhaps this has come about because this is the time for it to do so'.

On another forum (one of many) where I have started this topic I received this reply:

I don't know about you, but I am living in paradise. My work is fun, I have plenty of really good food to eat, I have sex once or twice a week, I have a network of friends and relatives who care about me, etc. ad infinitum. What seems to be the problem? Do you think I should be jealous that some people make more money than I do? I personally believe that until there is a real problem, the situation will stay the same.

My answer was this:

Thank you for your comment.

Yes – there are many people in your situation, and see absolutely no reason to want change, and as you say, those like yourself who think along those same lines will not see a problem until the problem is real for them.

Within the OP and subsequent post, there is no mention of being jealous of those who have more money than you do or that this is why a model which can foresee those non-immediate problems and have in offer a potential feasible alternate option is not a silly idea.

It is not about being motivated by jealousy, but by logic and wisdom and maturing as a species into sapience.

[Super-Fly]

WilliamW, on 07 August 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

I think that we have never seen any need to do so, and many are still in this state.  Another way of looking at it might be to think - "Perhaps this has come about because this is the time for it to do so'.

Surely its partly instinct to better the way you live,
All i want to do is earn more, do more, meet more so i can get nearer my ideal thaugh of paradise.

Thanks,

[The Id3al Experience]

WilliamW, on 07 August 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

The idea is to create a hypothetical workable plan – put it through the critical thinking wringer as it grows and adjust accordingly.

It is a huge task which will require the input of many individuals and it come from the bottom layer of the hierarchal pile – namely us peons.

The illusion is that the power is in the hands of the prison administrators – governments etc and this pattern repeats itself through the layers of society down to the local government and admin.

The media often refers to ‘Government’ as if this was a separate entity from ‘the people’ which as you point out, has become the understanding.
So when – for example – we hear the expression “The Government will get such and such” we don’t think of us the people.

Now we know of the various conflicts happening in the Middle East where dictatorships are being challenged by the people and the people are demanding democracy as a better alternative, and we can agree that compared to what they have, it is a better alternative.

However it is not the best alternative.  There is still gross inequality, and great dysfunction.

I remember when the ‘Occupy’ events were news.  I remember seeing a smug wall street suit ask some of the protesters “what do you want” and various replies were forthcoming.  The suit replied “So what is your plan – show me your plan.”  There was silence to this request.

The simple reason for this is that we don’t have a plan – we want action, we want change and we expect the big guns to come up with something which is fair and just?

So – we need a plan which cannot deny us as democracy… ‘We The People’

So on that subject, it is necessary to approach such a task with the assumption that there is no conspiracy and work it from that angle – keep conspiracy out of the equation.

What we need at the end of this process is something which is foolproof as a model – in other words it can be seen as a workable alternative where no one is disadvantaged and it needs to be simple enough for the average person to understand.

When this is achieved then the internet can come into play as a medium for speeding the process of getting it out there – but that comes later on – we know that things can go viral so such a plan needs to have this in mind because it needs to be something which grabs the attention and support of as many as possible, the advantage being that most people are in the ‘disadvantaged’ category, even by their own estimate.

Before this can happen, the plan must grow enough and be circulated within forums, blogs and other such mediums in order for it to be added to, critiqued and supported by as many as possible.

It has to exclude ‘dreaminess’ – this is where critical thinking will come into play – the plan needs to be neutral in regard to any belief systems and pass the most sceptical analysis.

While the plan must envision the whole world, it must start within the context of the so-called free world of democracy which is to say that any such plan at the point of induction has to come from the free world and spread out as it will into the less democratic countries.

I have plenty of ideas which I think can work.  Any concerns or criticisms can be addressed as they come, but those criticisms must also come from a place of non-conspiracy related foundations.

This is to say – anything not proven as an actuality in regard to free world government agenda cannot be used to argue against any such plan being realised.

Thoughts?

Beautiful - You have a very great point, there, and I agree we do want action and things to change, but do nothing about it, just complain. This suddenly opend my eyes to alot of events that happens in mine and others life.

Thanks William, you have such a great head on ya shoulders, keep it up.

Kind Regards