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Underwater civilisation predating last iceage


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#61    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:29 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 11 August 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Since Plato is the one who wrote the story, it's got everything to do with the existance of Atlantis.

Because it doesn't exist anywhere in Greek or Egyptian myths, legends or history.
You're assuming you can rationalize Atlantis into existance. It doesn't work that way.

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So if Plato wrote about Poseidon does it mean that He was created by him and didn't have any bearing before Plato wrote about it? I am not trying to rationalize Atlantis outright but all i am trying to say that Atlantis could have existed not necessarily as Plato described it.............


#62    cormac mac airt

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:26 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 11 August 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

So if Plato wrote about Poseidon does it mean that He was created by him and didn't have any bearing before Plato wrote about it? I am not trying to rationalize Atlantis outright but all i am trying to say that Atlantis could have existed not necessarily as Plato described it.............

Poseidon was a deity who is mentioned in Mycenaean Linear B well before Plato's time. Poseidon was never a location. Since there's no place that is evidenced as having existed where Plato said it was and when he said it existed then there's no reason to believe Atlantis, as a specific place, was real. The fact there there are several cultures/sites/settlements that are in evidence as having existed during the timeframe of Plato's Atlantis cannot be taken as evidence for Atlantis' existance. Plato is the origin for the whole Island of Atlantis claim, so it's really rather simple. It either existed as he described it or it didn't exist. There's no support for its existance scientifically, nor is there any archaeological or textual support for its existance from any of the cultures that were supposed to be involved with the story, when the story was alleged to have happened. These are the facts and again, you can't rationalize it into existance.

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The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#63    Abramelin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:47 PM

Fosite has been suggested to be a loan of Greek Poseidon into pre-Proto-Germanic, perhaps via Greeks purchasing amber (Pytheas is known to have visited the area of Heligoland in search of amber).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forseti

To many this etymology seemed unlikely, but after the find of the remnants of a 3400 years old Minoan boat and Minoan artifacts plus Linear A/B seals  in the German Bight (or the west coast of Denmark) it suddenly looks possible. The name  "Fosite" may later have changed into "Forsite" (see Wiki link for explanation of that word).

See this post and the ones after:

http://www.unexplain...45#entry4408433


#64    Harte

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:18 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 11 August 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

If a apple would have fallen on my head and i did say it was due to gravity no one would believe me but just coz it fell on newtons head it is accepted as fact...........

Well, that and the fact that, for the first time in the history of human beings, he explained this "gravity" mathematically and was correct to the finest detail measurable in his time.

If you were to accomplish the same, I'd say you'd be listened to.

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 11 August 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

You just quoted something calling Yonaguni a Japanese Atlantis.Mr Masaka Kimura has not written and published any papers regarding his dating of Yonaguni,and neither has been peer reviewed (or has he?).If he hasn't it is surprising how readily you accept a date suggested by him.
Like it or not, Kimura is the only academician that supports the idea that this natural formation has anything to do with any human culture.

You're bad-mouthing the very person who first proposed the same things that you consider to be factual about Yonaguni.

He's published, of course.  He's a professor.

Again, he's the one you're taking your very ideas from.  I wouldn't berate the guy that told the entire world about Yonaguni.  If not for him, you would have never heard of it.

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 11 August 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Now since we find common ground at least in agreeing that ancient cities could have disappeared underwater we can probably also agree that one such city/civilization could have been very advance for its time (as recently we found out about Gobekli Tepe which is staring conventional timeline for advance in civilization in the face).
A city is not a civilization.  Had there been an advanced culture like Atlantis sometime in the past, we would know that we were missing something - we'd know from clues such as relics of trade, etc.

No culture in the past, nobody since writing began, ever said anything at all about anything like Plato's Atlantis.  Yet, for example, Greek mythology is rich with references to Troy - an unknown culture that finally might have been confirmed to have existed through a discovery by Frank Calvert in 1865.

Quote

Imagine if the great pyramid was not actually present in front of our eyes and we probably had heard only stories about it would you believe that a structure like it could have ever existed?
Sure, why not?

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 11 August 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I feel Plato was exaggerating but can't dismiss the story completely.
Where did Plato get it?  The usual claim is, indirectly, from Solon and Solon from Egyptian priests.

If true, why is it that there's no Egyptian evidence for any such belief or even a similar myth?

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#65    Drums

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:19 AM

I actually do believe that Atlantis exist, but not in the Plato writings.  A little bit before Plato's time, there was a massive volcano eruption, and a tsunami that happened after in the Mediterranean Sea.  I think that Plato most likely received his idea of Atlantis from this catastrophe.  All stories in my view have at least a grain of truth, and well what better idea to write a story on, then the most devastating thing that has happened around the area.  Well it's either that, or Atlantis is on Antarctica.  I do enjoy Graham Hancock's writing as well, he does make interesting points, and he never pushes his ideas on to others.


#66    docyabut2

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:23 AM

atlantis has been found

http://www.hartford....icle/view/10082





Edited by docyabut2, 12 August 2012 - 04:45 AM.


#67    docyabut2

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:59 AM

http://www.dailymoti...la-a_shortfilms


#68    The Puzzler

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:38 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 11 August 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Fosite has been suggested to be a loan of Greek Poseidon into pre-Proto-Germanic, perhaps via Greeks purchasing amber (Pytheas is known to have visited the area of Heligoland in search of amber).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forseti

To many this etymology seemed unlikely, but after the find of the remnants of a 3400 years old Minoan boat and Minoan artifacts plus Linear A/B seals  in the German Bight (or the west coast of Denmark) it suddenly looks possible. The name  "Fosite" may later have changed into "Forsite" (see Wiki link for explanation of that word).

See this post and the ones after:

http://www.unexplain...45#entry4408433

Fosite

Phosite

Poseite

Poseidwe

Poseidon

easy lego linguistics change.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#69    Abramelin

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:55 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 12 August 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Fosite

Phosite

Poseite

Poseidwe

Poseidon

easy lego linguistics change.

Personally I prefer archeology above juggling with words. By these finds the etymology of my former post makes some sense.

Without it not at all.


#70    zoser

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:57 AM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 08 August 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:




Graham hancock has worked extensively to explore underwater ruins of ancient civilisations.What implications does this have on accepted chronology of human civilisation.

It shatters it like a pain of glass being hit by a 2 pound hammer.

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#71    DieChecker

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 10:02 PM

Does Yonuguni show any signs of tool usage on it? Not that I've seen or heard about. At least not in the sense of "carving" it out of a piece of stone.

The thing about Atlantis and Plato is all about the reference it is given in. There are 36 Dialogs of Plato, and almost all are political in nature, not biographys or histories. And no evidence exists from before this timeframe, and Athens certainly did not exist 10,000 years ago. Thus it can be deduced that the references to Atlantis are to a fictional land that is being used as an example, without directly calling dishonor on any of the existing nations of the day.

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#72    Abramelin

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:23 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 13 August 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Does Yonuguni show any signs of tool usage on it? Not that I've seen or heard about. At least not in the sense of "carving" it out of a piece of stone.

The thing about Atlantis and Plato is all about the reference it is given in. There are 36 Dialogs of Plato, and almost all are political in nature, not biographys or histories. And no evidence exists from before this timeframe, and Athens certainly did not exist 10,000 years ago. Thus it can be deduced that the references to Atlantis are to a fictional land that is being used as an example, without directly calling dishonor on any of the existing nations of the day.

Maybe Athens did not exist under that name, but the area was inhabited for many millennia:

The oldest known human presence in Athens is the Cave of Schist, which has been dated to between the 11th and 7th millennium BC. Athens has been continuously inhabited for at least 7000 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens


#73    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:02 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 13 August 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

Does Yonuguni show any signs of tool usage on it? Not that I've seen or heard about. At least not in the sense of "carving" it out of a piece of stone.

The thing about Atlantis and Plato is all about the reference it is given in. There are 36 Dialogs of Plato, and almost all are political in nature, not biographys or histories. And no evidence exists from before this timeframe, and Athens certainly did not exist 10,000 years ago. Thus it can be deduced that the references to Atlantis are to a fictional land that is being used as an example, without directly calling dishonor on any of the existing nations of the day.
As far as i know 90 degree angles cannot be cut without using tools.


#74    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:17 AM

View PostHarte, on 12 August 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Well, that and the fact that, for the first time in the history of human beings, he explained this "gravity" mathematically and was correct to the finest detail measurable in his time.

If you were to accomplish the same, I'd say you'd be listened to.

Like it or not, Kimura is the only academician that supports the idea that this natural formation has anything to do with any human culture.

You're bad-mouthing the very person who first proposed the same things that you consider to be factual about Yonaguni.

He's published, of course.  He's a professor.

Again, he's the one you're taking your very ideas from.  I wouldn't berate the guy that told the entire world about Yonaguni.  If not for him, you would have never heard of it.


A city is not a civilization.  Had there been an advanced culture like Atlantis sometime in the past, we would know that we were missing something - we'd know from clues such as relics of trade, etc.

No culture in the past, nobody since writing began, ever said anything at all about anything like Plato's Atlantis.  Yet, for example, Greek mythology is rich with references to Troy - an unknown culture that finally might have been confirmed to have existed through a discovery by Frank Calvert in 1865.


Sure, why not?


Where did Plato get it?  The usual claim is, indirectly, from Solon and Solon from Egyptian priests.

If true, why is it that there's no Egyptian evidence for any such belief or even a similar myth?

Harte
Do you know that we are still not able to define the nature of Gravitational force.........newton only formulated a mathematical equation to measure it's effect believing it's there and is called gravity is much like a leap of faith (i.e like the centrifugal force,there are formulas to measure it but the force is considered to be a fictituos force i.e you can feel it but it's not supposed to be real)............understanding gravity completely will be an answer to many secrets of the universe.................When i explore an idea or proposition i try not to bog myself down by only aknowledging degrees and published papers.......as time and again many published and well accepted theories have also been proven wrong.........I try not be gullible and believe something just because a person with a degree is saying it as we are all humans and we have our prejudices and biases wether we have degrees or not..........A city can be a civilization in itself or vica versa especially if it is supposed to be on an island.........i didn't mean to badmouth anyone but you have to acknowledge that mainstream historians/archealogists are under a lot of pressure from their peers whenever they come up with a new hypothesis,and this fear can affect their reporting in a negative way


#75    cormac mac airt

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:58 AM

Quote

As far as i know 90 degree angles cannot be cut without using tools.

Then you've obviously never seen slabs of shale broken apart.

Quote

A city can be a civilization in itself or vica versa especially if it is supposed to be on an island.

Actually no, it can't. It could be part of a civilization perhaps but it's never considered a civilization, in and of itself. Amongst other things a civilization requires several settlements.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus




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