325 replies to this topic

[Harsh86_Patel]

The usual historian will tell you that civilizations develop over considerable periods of time,having successive levels of advancement stretched over large periods of time.This statement can be extrapolated to say that If we find a ancient civilization/ruins,it has to have evolved from a civilization/group which was less advance then the one that we found and had to exist before the advance civilization.So this brings a very nagging question to my head that why would hunter gatherers(as humans were supposed to be at the time of Gobekli Tepe creation) suddenly decide to quarry huge blocks of stone and arrange them in circles. Also how did they learn to carve reliefs on those pillars. And since there is no other site to predate Tepe (currently known to us) is it safe to assume that the Hunter gatherers decided almost overnight (talking in terms of advancement of human and human civilization) to build a awe inspiring Temple/?? site.

Was civilization (atleast architecture) gifted to us human in a terribly short period of time?

[notoverrated]

maybe we got the timeline wrong.

[questionmark]

notoverrated, on 10 August 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

maybe we got the timeline wrong.

Probably not. But the why is easily explained: There are no caves in the neighborhood to make a traditional cult place like Altamira or Lascaux. So they had to build one.

[Harsh86_Patel]

questionmark, on 10 August 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Probably not. But the why is easily explained: There are no caves in the neighborhood to make a traditional cult place like Altamira or Lascaux. So they had to build one.

But apparently there is no evidence found yet that people were staying or residing in that structure ,unlike caves

[notoverrated]

questionmark, on 10 August 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Probably not. But the why is easily explained: There are no caves in the neighborhood to make a traditional cult place like Altamira or Lascaux. So they had to build one.

we have been wrong about the human time line numerous times.

[questionmark]

Harsh86_Patel, on 10 August 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

But apparently there is no evidence found yet that people were staying or residing in that structure ,unlike caves

Where you are quite wrong concerning Altamira or Lascaux, thee is no evidence of prolonged settlement in either off them, but for centuries of use. And the only place where settlement was found was in the cave mouth, far away from the cult part of the cave.

Hunter gatherers, as a rule, did not lead a sedentary life.

[Harsh86_Patel]

questionmark, on 10 August 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Where you are quite wrong concerning Altamira or Lascaux, thee is no evidence of prolonged settlement in either off them, but for centuries of use. And the only place where settlement was found was in the cave mouth, far away from the cult part of the cave.

Hunter gatherers, as a rule, did not lead a sedentary life.

So you are suggesting that when they build Gobekli Tepe they were doing it to supplement their cave?Couldn't they just find one somewhere else.Also how did they learn all that was required to build Tepe?

[questionmark]

Harsh86_Patel, on 10 August 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

So you are suggesting that when they build Gobekli Tepe they were doing it to supplement their cave?Couldn't they just find one somewhere else.Also how did they learn all that was required to build Tepe?

They went where they could find food. Follow the migrations of the paleolithic cultures and you will find an explanation.

[The_Spartan]

What i feel is that Gobekli Tepe was never a Residential Area like a cave.
But rather it was  a religious and ceremonial structure.

Harsh, it is not a single construction.
It might have started from bare form structure that the Hunter gatherer community knew how to construct at their times.
As you are aware, Gobekli Tepe was buried periodically. (for what reasons it is never clear)
refer to this link for the dating of the layers.
Advances in culture means advances in technology. Their building methods advanced. The structure at each layer became more elaborate and sophisticated.



So, when you ask why and how a "hunter-gatherer Culture'  did build Gobekli Tepe, i would ask you -  Why did ancient Indians buied the temple, or ancient Christians build churches and basilicas?

Because they could and because they wanted to.

Religion is always a moving force for the masses.
When Ancient Humans started worship forces of natures as God and all, they built abodes to them, thinking the gods will reside there.
The religious place became the community's social communing centre too.
matters of law and commerce relating to the community were discussed there.

Certain Communities developed into the major centres. The ceremonial/religious centres of these major communities became the major religious centres and places oif pilgrimage.

And please note that a "Hunter-gather" culture wont stay Hunter-gather-ish.

No culture sprang into life as advanced. They would have started as Hunter-gatherers and would surely advance through into settled, governed and modern civilizations.
Likewise, do not consider that the people who built Gobekli Tepe would have stayed Hunting & gathering all the time till the last burial of Gobekli Tepe.

[SunGod]

Their stones did help us from heavenly bodies which had war with us ? The Bible say ' your war is not with flesh and blood , but with heavenly bodies . . ' These bodies / galaxies , stars , planets , astroieds , comets ,cosmic rays . . .

[Abramelin]

This is an example of NOT-fringe:


Abstract:

Archaeologists have proposed that quite a number of structures dating to the Pre-Pottery Neolithic A and B in southwest Asia were nondomestic ritual buildings, sometimes described specifically as temples or shrines, and these figure large in some interpretations of social change in the Near Eastern Neolithic. Yet the evidence supporting the identification of cult buildings is often equivocal or depends on ethnocentric distinctions between sacred and profane spaces. This paper explores the case of Göbekli Tepe, a large Pre-Pottery Neolithic site in Turkey that its excavator claims consisted only of temples, to illustrate weaknesses in some kinds of claims about Neolithic sacred spaces and to explore some of the problems of identifying prehistoric ritual. Consideration of the evidence suggests the alternative hypothesis that the buildings at Göbekli Tepe may actually be houses, albeit ones that are rich in symbolic content.

http://www.jstor.org...=21101127584891


If the Göbekli structures were in fact unroofed, it surely follows they were not houses. Beginning with a structural examination of the pillars, Banning suggests they are placed and buttressed in a manner that would have supported overhead wooden beams, which in turn would have been thatched. There are several hints (ranging from grooves and notches to wood) that this may in fact have been the case, and Banning has sketched one possible layout:

 gobekli-tepe-houses-of-the-holy-L-lZJmJB.jpg   73.65K   15 downloads

(...)

While there is no doubt that Göbekli Tepe is an important site and that aspects of its structures were symbolically loaded, the claim that the site had no residential occupation is simply not credible.

Most likely, either the famous “temples” are actually houses or houses lie elsewhere on the site and are simply not represented or not yet identified in the excavated sample.

In short, there is no strong reason to assume that the people who used the buildings at GöbekliTepe, in any stratum, were not Neolithic villagers.

Ignoring even the possibility that some of the claimed shrines and temples at Neolithic sites may have been houses or other types of buildings, however, could distort our interpretations not only of Neolithic religion but of nonreligious aspects of the communities that inhabited or used those sites.

http://en.paperblog....the-holy-81564/


And don't forget to read the rest of the article on that blog (second link).


And is Göbekli Tepe unique?

No, it's similar in age and artifacts to Karahan Tepe and Nevali Çori.

http://www.springeri...34-011-0291-5-1


.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 August 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[The_Spartan]

SunGod, on 10 August 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Their stones did help us from heavenly bodies which had war with us ? The Bible say ' your war is not with flesh and blood , but with heavenly bodies . . ' These bodies / galaxies , stars , planets , astroieds , comets ,cosmic rays . . .

Please comment/post relevant to the topic. not some half completed unrelated sentences.

[questionmark]

The_Spartan, on 10 August 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

What i feel is that Gobekli Tepe was never a Residential Area like a cave.
But rather it was  a religious and ceremonial structure.

There are several cult caves that were never a residence, or if signs of human habitation are found they are well away from the cultic areas.

The real mystery of Gobeliki is whether it is the place where organized religion was created or whether it became necessary because of the recent discovery of organized religion.

Edited by questionmark, 10 August 2012 - 08:36 PM.

[lightly]

... you don't build a temple ,   until there is a religion ?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Harsh86_Patel, on 10 August 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Was civilization (atleast architecture) gifted to us human in a terribly short period of time?

No.
Lets look at Stonehenge - although younger then Gobekli Tepe but more well known - it's not a spontaneous building, although it's got no existent predecessors there is enough evidence of "woodhenges" as well as previous stone constructions akin to the stones in Avebury.