325 replies to this topic

[lightly]

i haven't a clue Abramelin!     i guess i'm just special.  


now i wish i could get this image to post!!!**!

Edited by lightly, 06 October 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[lightly]

just for more fun...    i love the striking similarity in these two scenes.

 similar2.jpg   163.13K   6 downloads

[cormac mac airt]

Abramelin, on 06 October 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Well, EVERYWHERE:

Turkey.jpg

Add to that the (still disputed) theory that Anatolia was the place of origin of IE, and a picture is slowly evolving.

And the Zoroastrian religion may only be a very diluted form of what the ancient Anatolians believed in.

But then we have the fact that Zoroastrianism is patriarchal, or better,  has a Supreme God, not a Goddess, while the Anatolians are supposed to have venerated a Mother Goddess.

Perhaps not as disputed as it once was:

Quote

There are two competing hypotheses for the origin of the Indo-European language family. The conventional view places the homeland in the Pontic steppes about 6000 years ago. An alternative hypothesis claims that the languages spread from Anatolia with the expansion of farming 8000 to 9500 years ago. We used Bayesian phylogeographic approaches, together with basic vocabulary data from 103 ancient and contemporary Indo-European languages, to explicitly model the expansion of the family and test these hypotheses. We found decisive support for an Anatolian origin over a steppe origin. Both the inferred timing and root location of the Indo-European language trees fit with an agricultural expansion from Anatolia beginning 8000 to 9500 years ago. These results highlight the critical role that phylogeographic inference can play in resolving debates about human prehistory.

http://www.sciencema...y=9/I0UU0.eTrdQ

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 06 October 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Abramelin]

From what I have read here and there, Cormac, their Bayesian statistics are somewhat flawed.

There was a person posting on the Historum board who didn't agree with the theory, based on his knowledge of linguistics.

And from the looks of it, he appeared to me as someone knowing what he was talking about.

I'll try to find that post/thread.

[Abramelin]

Found it:

http://www.historum....tml#post1192176

And read on ("Midas").

("Vrank Bouleen" is me, btw; it's an anagram of my true name)

.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[Ove]

lightly, on 06 October 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

just for more fun... i love the striking similarity in these two scenes.

similar2.jpg

Men with feathers (bird men) and baskets. What does the scene represent,  lightly ?

http://upload.wikime...r_Sharrukin.jpg





"bird man" with V neck in Gobekli Tepe

Edited by Ove, 06 October 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[Abramelin]

Midas:

"This is just a revival of the Renfrew hypothesis. There's a severe problem with the glottochronology of that theory, however some seem to insist even if that math is wrong.

For example, since obviously the author seems confused, how does a Bayesian phylogeographic analysis explain the fact that for 4000 years PIE remained unchanged in Anatolia? You all remember how fast English changed in 200 years and that Icelandic hold the record of language change resistance with only 700 hundred years? Isn't 4000 years damn much for a language being static? Why are there so few IE shared words that followed common development between Greek and IE Anatolian languages? They were litterarly neighbours weren't they? Why does Hittite show archaisms that lead to an early split up, while Armenian shows it split later?"

And read on.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[cormac mac airt]

Abramelin, on 06 October 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Found it:

http://www.historum....tml#post1192176

And read on ("Midas").

("Vrank Bouleen" is me, btw; it's an anagram of my true name)

.

He has an interesting take on the situation, I'll give that to him.

cormac

[lightly]

I don't know ..  i wish i knew what  both scenes represent.    What do you say, or think?

... i just noticed the  V  on the neck of the bird on the column ,above,  that the puzzler posted.

[kmt_sesh]

Abramelin, on 06 October 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

(Lightly, why is it that when I watch the index page, I see the title of the thread you posted in on top of your username?? UM has thousands of members, but it only happens with you, lol)

Unusual. I'm not seeing it on my end. Is your computer possessed, Abe?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

This is one of my favorrites. it is one-piece construction.
http://www.google.co...r:19,s:36,i:254

this one here - I get the impression it is a pregnant woman with her hands around her belly-bulge. great art.
http://www.google.co...r:15,s:15,i:173

[docyabut2]

The temples of Gobekli Tepe no where resemble the steps, latters or mountain tops of the Tibetan sky-burials

[docyabut2]

To me the baskets  are of a gathering of animals and food,  the points or arrows are what they are pointing to.

[docyabut2]

If these temples were of hunters ,their main concern was for food.

[The Gremlin]

hunter gatherer groups roam around in extended families or clans, the womenfolk often make camp and gather while the men go off in groups to hunt.
The roamings of groups engaged in primitive farming is less wide, and spots are revisited seasonally.


on special occasions these clans come together at a meeting-spot, to find partners, to compete, to trade, to fight, to dance, to get off their heads.

lots of ritual elements are found...to keep order, to define identity, to honour spirits etc.

although the throng can cover a wide area, a central focal point of greater importance (elders/religion/champions) is marked.

As the culture becomes more sedentry, and complex, so do these central places.


edit to add, the baskets could be harvesting baskets, used to harvest grain and berries. They are brushed quickly through bushes, or heads of grain, and most of the berries, grain are scooped into the basket.....much quicker and more efficient than picking by hand....this requires a handle like those pictured to protect the hand, and for ease of use.
....like a leather or bark bag, but open at one side.

Edited by The Gremlin, 07 October 2012 - 01:18 AM.