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Iran Nuclear Program: U.S. Believes

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#46    and then

and then

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:33 AM

View Postdside, on 15 August 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Call it what you will. It is not hate, the only bigotry I have is towards the western bigotry the Palestinians suffer and how Israeli propaganda machine has succeeded in lulling western minds into sleep, into complacency and indifference. Turn about is fairplay, you are a bigot against the Palestinians. How about that? I dont believe you have a beating pulse towards any Palestinian, your heart is dead towards them, your heart is stone.

But what if your mother lived in the Gaza Strip, or lived in the West Bank, or in a refugee camp? Or was one of Israel's internally displaced? What if that was your father? What if that was your brothers and sisters? What that was your children? Do you realize how hopeless you'd be to help any of them due to the discriminatory laws of Israel and the occupation? Absolutely powerless. I want to change that for the Palestinians. Because they could be my mother, my father, my siblings.
If the Palestinians were willing to have peace they could have a State and security.  Their own unending hate causes most of their woes.  This is truth. I do not choose to support a people who make it their business to destroy every Jew on earth..just for being a Jew. If that makes me a bigot then okay.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#47    GoSC

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:09 AM

View Postand then, on 16 August 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

If the Palestinians were willing to have peace they could have a State and security.  Their own unending hate causes most of their woes.  This is truth. I do not choose to support a people who make it their business to destroy every Jew on earth..just for being a Jew. If that makes me a bigot then okay.

No, the issue is land dispossession, expulsions, occupation, collective punishment, restricted movement, apartheid walls and several hundred checkpoints, house evictions and demolitions, assassinations, discriminatory laws, erased history, destruction of "unrecognized" villages, settler violence, inhumane arrests and convictions, illegal torture, etc.

Basically Israel has turned life for the modern Palestinians into the world's largest prison... the modern state of Israel resembles something from the visions of George Orwell, it is not the utopian society the earliest Zionist wishy-washy dreamt up originally, but has all the markings of a  dystopian society. This cant be how God envisioned Israel. This is a nightmare!

And anyone that denounces this government or criticizes it is called a anti-semite by the zealous Zionists and their sympathezers (truly an oxymoron seeing that the Palestinians are semites).

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#48    and then

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:03 AM

View Postdside, on 16 August 2012 - 03:09 AM, said:

No, the issue is land dispossession, expulsions, occupation, collective punishment, restricted movement, apartheid walls and several hundred checkpoints, house evictions and demolitions, assassinations, discriminatory laws, erased history, destruction of "unrecognized" villages, settler violence, inhumane arrests and convictions, illegal torture, etc.

Basically Israel has turned life for the modern Palestinians into the world's largest prison... the modern state of Israel resembles something from the visions of George Orwell, it is not the utopian society the earliest Zionist wishy-washy dreamt up originally, but has all the markings of a  dystopian society. This cant be how God envisioned Israel. This is a nightmare!

And anyone that denounces this government or criticizes it is called a anti-semite by the zealous Zionists and their sympathezers (truly an oxymoron seeing that the Palestinians are semites).
I don't recall ever calling you an anti semite.  In fact that phrase is RARE in my vocabulary.  I said you were an anti Israel/Jewish BIGOT.  Because I believe that you are.  And I also have grown very weary of the endless argument.  Believe what makes you feel justified.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#49    GoSC

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:20 PM

View Postand then, on 16 August 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

I don't recall ever calling you an anti semite.  In fact that phrase is RARE in my vocabulary.  I said you were an anti Israel/Jewish BIGOT.  Because I believe that you are.  And I also have grown very weary of the endless argument.  Believe what makes you feel justified.

Zionism is not Judaism. And the state of Israel has a heineous history. It sickens me to the core.

Back to the subject at hand, it was Israel and their Prime Minister Golda Meir's threat to use nuclear weapons during the 1973 war that prompted the US to launch Operation Nickel Grass. That same war consequently due to a Soviet threat to intervene against the Israelis would lead the US to put its forces on nuclear alert.

http://www.nytimes.c...ear-moment.html

So we've been here twice before during one single war.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#50    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:37 PM

View Postand then, on 16 August 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

I don't recall ever calling you an anti semite.  In fact that phrase is RARE in my vocabulary.  I said you were an anti Israel/Jewish BIGOT.

Anti Jewish and anti semitic mean the same thing when used in the context of your post.


#51    and then

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:51 AM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 16 August 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Anti Jewish and anti semitic mean the same thing when used in the context of your post.
Then it was an error in my phrasing.  I think of an anti Semite as being a true HATER of all things Jewish...not just someone who disagrees with Israeli policies.  I can't recall anyone here that I truly think of as an anti Semite by my definition.  Though some might be close.

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#52    SteveBronfman

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:32 AM

I personally avoid the term anti-Semitism preferring Jew-hatred or Judeophobia largely because of the stupid semantic Arab argument that since they too are semites they can't be anti-semites when of course they can hate Jews.

What is clear about Dside is he's obsessed with Israel and to my knowledge every single one of his posts is anti-Israel. A good gauge I use for distinguishing between Jew haters and anti-Zionists (although I believe to deny Jews self-determination is Jew hatred, what I mean by this is those who would be happy for Israel to exist within the 1948 borders) is I ask them which Israeli party they would be happy with in power. Would they prefer Kadima? Labour? Meretz? The Jew haters don't distinguish between political parties they hate Israel regardless of it's practices or policies. I believe Dside falls into this catagory.

Dside's declared many times he wants to dismantle Israel. To deny Jews the right of self-determination is anti-Jewish it's that simple. If he called for the dismantling of Pakistan, Turkey, and other countries created for religious reasons and/or occupying minorities then I'd at least say I don't agree with him but he's logically consistant. Since this isn't the case I have to conclude since he applies his logic to one country and one country only, Israel, then he is Judeophobic.

I should state that while I don't agree mostly with Expand My Mind I don't think he's a Jew hater, for instance, he seems to apply his morals to Israel's neighbours too. Dside is happy to ignore any crime of Israel's neighbours while for him Israel can literally do nothing right except commit national suicide.

Edited by SteveBronfman, 17 August 2012 - 06:39 AM.


#53    GoSC

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:51 AM

View PostSteveBronfman, on 17 August 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

I personally avoid the term anti-Semitism preferring Jew-hatred or Judeophobia largely because of the stupid semantic Arab argument that since they too are semites they can't be anti-semites when of course they can hate Jews.

What is clear about Dside is he's obsessed with Israel and to my knowledge every single one of his posts is anti-Israel. A good gauge I use for distinguishing between Jew haters and anti-Zionists (although I believe to deny Jews self-determination is Jew hatred, what I mean by this is those who would be happy for Israel to exist within the 1948 borders) is I ask them which Israeli party they would be happy with in power. Would they prefer Kadima? Labour? Meretz? The Jew haters don't distinguish between political parties they hate Israel regardless of it's practices or policies. I believe Dside falls into this catagory.

Dside's declared many times he wants to dismantle Israel. To deny Jews the right of self-determination is anti-Jewish it's that simple. If he called for the dismantling of Pakistan, Turkey, and other countries created for religious reasons and/or occupying minorities then I'd at least say I don't agree with him but he's logically consistant. Since this isn't the case I have to conclude since he applies his logic to one country and one country only, Israel, then he is Judeophobic.

I should state that while I don't agree mostly with Expand My Mind I don't think he's a Jew hater, for instance, he seems to apply his morals to Israel's neighbours too. Dside is happy to ignore any crime of Israel's neighbours while for him Israel can literally do nothing right except commit national suicide.

Okay, now, SteveBronfman and 'and then', I have a theory... what if God snapped His fingers... and Israelis and Palestinians traded roles? What would you feel about that? Tell the truth, in that nothing changed, everything remained exactly as it does today... a perfect role reversal. Nothing is different just the players changed roles like foreign exchange students. Answer me honestly, would you be outraged over the plight of the Israelis?

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#54    SteveBronfman

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:56 AM

That's actually a good question.

So Israel suddenly receives more aid money per capita than any other group in history (more than Europe under the Marshall plan per capita) and have the backing of the UN, Russia and 1.5 billion Jews (including 56 Jewish countries) and Israelis are the majority of Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza with a sizable minority in "Palestine".

I'd take that swap.

Edited by SteveBronfman, 17 August 2012 - 07:05 AM.


#55    GoSC

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:49 AM

View PostSteveBronfman, on 17 August 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

That's actually a good question.

So Israel suddenly receives more aid money per capita than any other group in history (more than Europe under the Marshall plan per capita) and have the backing of the UN, Russia and 1.5 billion Jews (including 56 Jewish countries) and Israelis are the majority of Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza with a sizable minority in "Palestine".

I'd take that swap.


No, I did not say contend a swap between the whole Arab world and Israel... just the peoples in the current state of Israel, Gaza, the occupied territories, and refugee camps in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. Lets they swap histories, destinies, and demographs from back to say 1880 to 2012.

Edited by dside, 17 August 2012 - 08:49 AM.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#56    and then

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:51 AM

View Postdside, on 17 August 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

No, I did not say contend a swap between the whole Arab world and Israel... just the peoples in the current state of Israel, Gaza, the occupied territories, and refugee camps in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. Lets they swap histories, destinies, and demographs from back to say 1880 to 2012.
It still wouldn't work, dside.  The hatred would still be there - just swapped to a different place.  Same result though.

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#57    GoSC

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:56 AM

View Postand then, on 17 August 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

It still wouldn't work, dside.  The hatred would still be there - just swapped to a different place.  Same result though.

And whose side would you defend? Would you be pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian? And why?

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#58    and then

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

View Postdside, on 17 August 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

And whose side would you defend? Would you be pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian? And why?
You never give it a rest, do you? If it were the Israelis who were mindlessly hating the Palestinians, unwilling to even talk to them seriously about a settlement, demanding nothing less than EVERYTHING, I would be VERY conflicted.  In fact I think it might make me doubt my faith to a certain extent.  But ultimately I would hold my nose and support Israel.  And I have often given the reason why, just as you have often disputed said reasoning.  But this is NOT the reality.  The reality is that it is the Palestinians who are the intransigent ones.  Please do not post a ream of evidence that I don't have time to read.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
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#59    Br Cornelius

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:59 AM

View Postand then, on 17 August 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

You never give it a rest, do you? If it were the Israelis who were mindlessly hating the Palestinians, unwilling to even talk to them seriously about a settlement, demanding nothing less than EVERYTHING, I would be VERY conflicted.  In fact I think it might make me doubt my faith to a certain extent.  But ultimately I would hold my nose and support Israel.  And I have often given the reason why, just as you have often disputed said reasoning.  But this is NOT the reality.  The reality is that it is the Palestinians who are the intransigent ones.  Please do not post a ream of evidence that I don't have time to read.

Says it all. A sad mental state to be in.

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#60    Br Cornelius

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:06 AM

It seems that the attack maybe imment and nothing to do with Irans current military status. The Israelis see a window of opportunity to force America's hand before the USA election - after which the window of opportunity will close for another 5yrs;


http://www.businessi...8#ixzz22XeIoqiA

Propaganda to serve Israel's long term strategic interest's.

Br Cornelius

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