98 replies to this topic

[ExpandMyMind]

Br Cornelius, on 18 August 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

It seems that the attack maybe imment and nothing to do with Irans current military status. The Israelis see a window of opportunity to force America's hand before the USA election - after which the window of opportunity will close for another 5yrs;


http://www.businessi...8#ixzz22XeIoqiA

Propaganda to serve Israel's long term strategic interest's.

Br Cornelius

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=231835

[shaddow134]

ExpandMyMind, on 18 August 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=231835

If an attack is to be made,now will be a good time.Syria is in Chaos,so Isreali jets could use their airspace.Iraq doesn't pose a problem but Iranian air defences and Radar which they acquired from China is quite formidable so expect them to lose a couple of planes or so.Wonder if Uncle Obama will send them a few more Bunker busting bombs?

Edited by shaddow134, 18 August 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[and then]

shaddow134, on 18 August 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

If an attack is to be made,now will be a good time.Syria is in Chaos,so Isreali jets could use their airspace.Iraq doesn't pose a problem but Iranian air defences and Radar which they acquired from China is quite formidable so expect them to lose a couple of planes or so.Wonder if Uncle Obama will send them a few more Bunker busting bombs?

If Israel does attack, it will be an act of desperation.  They know better than anyone what they risk.  They will lose more than a few planes I imagine.  They almost certainly will lose a few hundred civilians and a huge amount of commerce since Tel Aviv appears to be the main target.  And if the war actually begins I hope that people remember that Israel LOSING would be a very bad thing for us all.

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 18 August 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

If Israel does attack, it will be an act of desperation.  They know better than anyone what they risk.  They will lose more than a few planes I imagine.  They almost certainly will lose a few hundred civilians and a huge amount of commerce since Tel Aviv appears to be the main target.  And if the war actually begins I hope that people remember that Israel LOSING would be a very bad thing for us all.

Why ?

Br Cornelius

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 18 August 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Why ?

Br Cornelius

What do you envision an Israeli loss to be?  Words at the UN, new flags flying over Haifa, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem?  The end of a Zionist dream and of course utopia for the freed Palestinians? Nah.....  Imagine Houla, Syria - but on steroids.  It would be a blood bath so sickening that the world would have to intervene, albeit at the very end.  It would nauseate you the savagery you would witness, well, except the media wouldn't show much of it.  
Apparently you disbelieve this scenario OR are willing to risk seeing a nuclear conflict blossom in the M.E.   You see, Brutha, they will NEVER be uprooted again to wander.  They WILL bleed, badly.  But they will never again die alone.  Any fair minded person should be okay with that.

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 18 August 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

What do you envision an Israeli loss to be?  Words at the UN, new flags flying over Haifa, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem?  The end of a Zionist dream and of course utopia for the freed Palestinians? Nah.....  Imagine Houla, Syria - but on steroids.  It would be a blood bath so sickening that the world would have to intervene, albeit at the very end.  It would nauseate you the savagery you would witness, well, except the media wouldn't show much of it.  
Apparently you disbelieve this scenario OR are willing to risk seeing a nuclear conflict blossom in the M.E.   You see, Brutha, they will NEVER be uprooted again to wander.  They WILL bleed, badly.  But they will never again die alone.  Any fair minded person should be okay with that.

If it makes an attack it will be attacked and will be hit with far more precision than any of its previous conflicts. America will almost certainly hold back and that means that it will probably be attacked from multiple sides. It may just achieve your dooms day fanatsies. Does it think the risk is worth it ??

I still think that nit imagines that its Zionist backers in America will prevail on the administration. As I said - I think it is wrong. Its playing Mexican standoff and is very likely to loose.

Br Cornelius

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 18 August 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

If it makes an attack it will be attacked and will be hit with far more precision than any of its previous conflicts. America will almost certainly hold back and that means that it will probably be attacked from multiple sides. It may just achieve your dooms day fanatsies. Does it think the risk is worth it ??

I still think that nit imagines that its Zionist backers in America will prevail on the administration. As I said - I think it is wrong. Its playing Mexican standoff and is very likely to loose.

Br Cornelius

Well that IS the 64 thousand dollar question.  If they feel existentially threatened then they may very well take the plunge - feeling they will lose for certain if they don't.  Their  intrepidity has been rewarded in the past..... The real question is why the world cannot see the repeating pattern and act in unison to secure them on their tiny piece of land thus ending the threat to humanity?  Instead we watch stupidly and cheer for the most volatile actors.... mindless.....

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 18 August 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Well that IS the 64 thousand dollar question.  If they feel existentially threatened then they may very well take the plunge - feeling they will lose for certain if they don't.  Their  intrepidity has been rewarded in the past..... The real question is why the world cannot see the repeating pattern and act in unison to secure them on their tiny piece of land thus ending the threat to humanity?  Instead we watch stupidly and cheer for the most volatile actors.... mindless.....

Because they have made themselves very unpopular and done nothing to gain friends. The thing is, anyone who has actually met an Israeli citizen will generally tell you they are not that nice so there is little personal empathy with their position.

There are consequences.

Br Cornelius

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 19 August 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Because they have made themselves very unpopular and done nothing to gain friends. The thing is, anyone who has actually met an Israeli citizen will generally tell you they are not that nice so there is little personal empathy with their position.

There are consequences.

Br Cornelius

I'll have to take your word for that as I do not know any Jewish persons.  But those consequences you speak of work both ways.  Why should they be overly friendly when they grow up challenged for their very survival?

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 19 August 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

I'll have to take your word for that as I do not know any Jewish persons.  But those consequences you speak of work both ways.  Why should they be overly friendly when they grow up challenged for their very survival?

There is a big difference between been Jewish and been an Israeli citizen. All the none Israeli Jews I have met have been fine.
If you don't cultivate friends don't be surprised when you end up friendless.

Br Cornelius

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 19 August 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

There is a big difference between been Jewish and been an Israeli citizen. All the none Israeli Jews I have met have been fine.
If you don't cultivate friends don't be surprised when you end up friendless.

Br Cornelius

Friendless people still have family.  And they have the advantage of being VERY accustomed to rejection and persecution.  The fact that people tend to dislike them certainly does not change their destiny.  They "triumph" over their enemies and even themselves, eventually - so says the book.  I believe the book BTW.  It's why I can be so annoying without even trying.

[Br Cornelius]

and then, on 19 August 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Friendless people still have family.  And they have the advantage of being VERY accustomed to rejection and persecution.  The fact that people tend to dislike them certainly does not change their destiny.  They "triumph" over their enemies and even themselves, eventually - so says the book.  I believe the book BTW.  It's why I can be so annoying without even trying.

History says otherwise. Only superstition allows you to believe otherwise.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

what is all this talk about Israel as no friends, dont talk rubbish, just because the liberal left are more vocal against Israel and their actions, mainly due to the occupied territories doesn't mean the silent majority are. the vast majority of western people would side with Israel over Iran or any other middle east country. and if it all does 'kick off' and Israel gives Iran a kicking we'll stand on the sidelines and do nothing, use measly words condemning the action but in private patting them on the back. if Iran starts to gain an advantage and its Israel who gets a kicking we'll be in there like a shot.

[Br Cornelius]

stevewinn, on 19 August 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

what is all this talk about Israel as no friends, dont talk rubbish, just because the liberal left are more vocal against Israel and their actions, mainly due to the occupied territories doesn't mean the silent majority are. the vast majority of western people would side with Israel over Iran or any other middle east country. and if it all does 'kick off' and Israel gives Iran a kicking we'll stand on the sidelines and do nothing, use measly words condemning the action but in private patting them on the back. if Iran starts to gain an advantage and its Israel who gets a kicking we'll be in there like a shot.

Going after Iran would be like striking a hornets nest. A bad idea.

A war you could never win which would make it almost impossible to get the precious oil out of the last great world reserve without a huge ongoing ground force to protect your wells and pipelines.

Do you think that Western military strategists do not carefully weigh up the pro an d cons of any military action and make a rational decision based upon that. No sane leader in the west wants to precipitate a world war which would inevitably lead to the use of Nukes. Israel simply isn't worth it in the larger scheme of things.

It is only the disproportionate influence of Zionists in the American and UK governments which means we are having this conversation at all.  Its almost enough to make you anti-semitic.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 19 August 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[and then]

Br Cornelius, on 19 August 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Going after Iran would be like striking a hornets nest. A bad idea.
Do you think that Western military strategists do not carefully weigh up the pro an d cons of any military action and make a rational decision based upon that. No sane leader in the west wants to precipitate a world war which would inevitably lead to the use of Nukes. Israel simply isn't worth it in the larger scheme of things.

It is only the disproportionate influence of Zionists in the American and UK governments which means we are having this conversation at all.

Br Cornelius

I make no claims of being expert in the field of military exploit but I do believe that the hardware (and software) available to a fighting force make quite a difference to the outcome of conflict.  As brave and well trained as the IRGC may be, it is difficult to overcome the technological imbalance.  That hornets nest you mention is what's in store for THEM, not us.  And there is no way Russia or China go to the wall for Iran.  They couldn't even react in time to stop the whipping that would be administered to Iran by forces in the region.  The level of tension in the world would go redline but no military action from them.  

"History says otherwise. Only superstition allows you to believe otherwise."

What history says otherwise?  I'm talking about FUTURE events.  My "superstitions" allow for that.  And your outlook will never allow you to admit being wrong, EVEN when these things are happening you will deny.  Not much pride, eh?