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Ecuador grants Wikileaks founder asylum

wikileaks ecuador julian assange

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#106    Rlyeh

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:09 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 20 August 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

He stands on a balcony and gives a speech on his highly distorted version of reality.
While you do it from behind a computer screen. You're the last person who should be criticizing anyones reality.


#107    keithisco

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:12 PM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 20 August 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

They dont need to make up false charges though. America could ask Britain to extradite him straight there. The UK has a long history of sending guys to face US justice. What makes you think the Swede's would extradite him but the British wont? As it stands they havent even asked for his extradition
Whistle - Blowing against a Foreign Nation is not an offense in the UK. However, in Sweden it can be considered an Offense, and liable for extradition. Therefore, it is necessary for Sweden to enforce extradition, as a proxy, to ensure that the USA can get their hands on him. It really is not difficult to grasp this, we are not talking rocket science here!! IF Sweden guarantees no Extraordinary Rendition to the USA then he has said many times, that hr is ready to face the charges....Is there really anymore to be said??


#108    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:19 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 20 August 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Whistle - Blowing against a Foreign Nation is not an offense in the UK. However, in Sweden it can be considered an Offense, and liable for extradition. Therefore, it is necessary for Sweden to enforce extradition, as a proxy, to ensure that the USA can get their hands on him. It really is not difficult to grasp this, we are not talking rocket science here!! IF Sweden guarantees no Extraordinary Rendition to the USA then he has said many times, that hr is ready to face the charges....Is there really anymore to be said??

You are missing the point.

He needs to face trial for both. It his not his right to escape justice over Wikileaks and we should not be held to randsom to have him deported to Sweden.


#109    keithisco

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:26 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 20 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

You are missing the point.

He needs to face trial for both. It his not his right to escape justice over Wikileaks and we should not be held to randsom to have him deported to Sweden.
No he doesn't !! You keep using phrases like "escaping justice" , what he did in respect to Wikileaks is NOT actually illegal (except in the USA), nobody has died as a result  of it... you do not hold the Global Rights to Justice on this issue. Grow up, realise that any illegal activities by any nation will be exposed.


#110    questionmark

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:31 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 20 August 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

No he doesn't !! You keep using phrases like "escaping justice" , what he did in respect to Wikileaks is NOT actually illegal (except in the USA), nobody has died as a result  of it... you do not hold the Global Rights to Justice on this issue. Grow up, realise that any illegal activities by any nation will be exposed.

Whistle-blowing is not exactly illegal in the US either. They would have to prove that the leaks were in favor to another government to make anything but Guantanamo stick. Now, if we talk Guantanamo....

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#111    tyrant lizard

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:40 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 20 August 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Whistle - Blowing against a Foreign Nation is not an offense in the UK. However, in Sweden it can be considered an Offense, and liable for extradition. Therefore, it is necessary for Sweden to enforce extradition, as a proxy, to ensure that the USA can get their hands on him. It really is not difficult to grasp this, we are not talking rocket science here!! IF Sweden guarantees no Extraordinary Rendition to the USA then he has said many times, that hr is ready to face the charges....Is there really anymore to be said??
No, you're right. America and Sweden randomly decided to invent a rape charge


#112    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:09 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 20 August 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

No he doesn't !! You keep using phrases like "escaping justice" , what he did in respect to Wikileaks is NOT actually illegal (except in the USA), nobody has died as a result  of it... you do not hold the Global Rights to Justice on this issue. Grow up, realise that any illegal activities by any nation will be exposed.
Excuse me leaking classified communications and data is illegal.

In this case it was Americas secrets that were leaked so he has a case to answer in America. It does not matter if no one has died his actions are illegal and place a lot of people in danger.

You're the one that needs to grow up. A persons narcissism may lead them into commiting crimes but just because you personally like the guy doesnt mean everyone else is going to rewrite the law for him. He is a scumbag and needs lengthy prison sentences for his Wikileaks and rape offences.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 20 August 2012 - 05:09 PM.


#113    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:41 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 20 August 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Excuse me leaking classified communications and data is illegal.

He didn't leak it, he just published it like any journalist would and should do.

Should the New York Times journalist and editor that published The Pentagon Papers also have been convicted?
http://en.wikipedia....Pentagon_Papers

Without that, Uncle Sam may well have spent another 10 years in Vietnam. I wonder how many millions more might have been killed...


#114    questionmark

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:15 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 20 August 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Excuse me leaking classified communications and data is illegal.

Ehm, yes, but publishing leaked material is not, hat falls under the freedom of the press. And that is what WikiLeaks does. They publish leaked material.

Could it be that you are so pissed at them because they published your cheating on taxes?

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#115    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:39 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 20 August 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

He didn't leak it, he just published it like any journalist would and should do.

Should the New York Times journalist and editor that published The Pentagon Papers also have been convicted?
http://en.wikipedia....Pentagon_Papers

Without that, Uncle Sam may well have spent another 10 years in Vietnam. I wonder how many millions more might have been killed...

Publishing classfied information is illegal.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 20 August 2012 - 07:39 PM.


#116    questionmark

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 20 August 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Publishing classfied information is illegal.

Bullpoop. At least in the US of A it is not. The only possibility would be under the Espionage Act of 1917, and even there it is not clear whether they can make it stick. In fact, the current AG (Gonzales) tried it and pulled back. And the Supreme Court is not decided yet whether leaking information to the press is punishable, I guess they are waiting for the Manning case to get there.

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#117    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:49 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 20 August 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Publishing classfied information is illegal.

Can you provide evidence of this?


#118    Drayno

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:41 PM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 20 August 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

No he wouldn't he's hiding from Swedish law who have an exemplary record on human rights, now if the extradition warrant had come from Ecuador no way should they have sent him, in short he's a Coward and would use anyone to save his own skin.

So wanting to live is a crime?

@ and then - I understand your train of thought when it comes to Manning. He did join the military, and he did give out secrets. When my brother tried to leave the Army because of all of the racism in Georgia, he was considered AWOL, and was thrown in the brig. I am quite familiar with the disciplinary actions of our Army; it is not a public entity, strictly speaking - it is a military, so the way it handles law breaking , especially when it comes to its own members, can be fairly different than that of a legal court because of the different legal precedents; you signed yourself over on a contract, they own you - versus civilian rights.

@ Babe Ruth - I do agree about Obama; the war on whistleblowers is a controversial one. Whistleblowers exist purely for the purpose of exposing illegality; they exist to inform the public of their waning rights. If someone sees what the government is doing, truly to the full extent of its actions, and its actions are targeting the liberty of the citizens that it is trying to serve - no one else is going to call the government on it. Thus it is is the job of those who have the information to better inform the public of their dilemma. That is not immoral, and is something to be respected. Those that carry information for public record should not be construed as traitors.

@ Mr Right Wing - If you were currently on the most wanted list by one of the largest, most influential countries in the world; a country that illegally exercises military action that kills civilians, that discreetly overthrows regimes to replace them with governments they fund and influence, that funds drug cartels and gives them weapons, then wages a crooked war on drugs - that attempts to limit the rights of its citizens to peacefully assemble for a list of grievances against their government, that attempts to dismantle habeas corpus and legal representation, that sets up controversial surveillance systems that attempts to survey what you think, do, or say - and you expose all of this, they are going to try to hook their claws in your arm. What better way than having an ally nation create rape allegations so that they can extradite you?

Edited by Drayno, 20 August 2012 - 08:45 PM.

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#119    Babe Ruth

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:48 PM

Oh, Assassin-in-Chief is too strong a term?

Considering the amount of assassinating the US is doing these days, the term is accurate for anybody informed of the situation.

Perhaps too strong for an Obama afficianado, but not inaccurate, sorry to say.

Assange is no angel, for he is only human, but in terms of moral high ground in this debate, he holds it.  The Brits and the Americans are reduced to threats and intimidation to 'make their case.'  Sad situation for 2 world super powers.

Suddenly, it's quite fashionable to defend government crimes and their having the light shined upon them. :whistle:


#120    Babe Ruth

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:52 PM

What you said Drayno, what you said! :yes:

That so many argue in favor of secret and oppressive government is an indicator of just how perverse our system of values has become.  Suddenly the whistleblower is a criminal, and the government committing the crime is the good guy. :td:






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