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How do skeptics explain Qi Gong


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#31    Rlyeh

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:47 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 19 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hence recalls and lawsuits.  While I appreciate your faith in what is supposed to happen, pharmaceuticals would not be a LEADING cause of death if things were working properly and rules were being followed now would it?
Jesus Christ. Did you bother to read your own link? It's talking about accidental overdose, human error. Please don't try to pass the blame to pharmaceuticals. Rules don't cure stupidity.

You may aswell blame car manufacturers for bad drivers.

Edited by Rlyeh, 19 August 2012 - 11:55 AM.


#32    White Crane Feather

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:56 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 August 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Jesus Christ. Did you bother to read your own link? It's talking about accidental overdose, human error. Please don't try to pass the blame to pharmaceuticals. Rules don't cure stupidity.

You may aswell blame car manufacturers for bad drivers.
You don't become chemically addicted to your car. Do you have any idea the exports big pharm makes to other countries without controls? Do you have any idea how much they make on a shoddy system that allows people to be addicted and spoon fed pharmaceuticals until their kidneys give out?

Did you know that they continually push to have the FDA raise its fees so that only the top companies can compete?

the FDA and big pharm will bury anyone who comes up with something that threatens their monopoly. It's not a pretty fluffy bunny world my friend, and doctors are not the ones in control.

You should watch this documentary.







"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#33    SolarPlexus

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:02 PM

Yup the cure for cancer exists but the strong hand of pharmaceutical industry mafia will suppress it. Who needs healthy people to sell there drugs to ? The same reason all clean and renewable technologies are suppressed. Plus cancer is the number one population controller on the planet ....

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#34    White Crane Feather

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostSolarPlexus, on 19 August 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Yup the cure for cancer exists but the strong hand of pharmaceutical industry mafia will suppress it. Who needs healthy people to sell there drugs to ? The same reason all clean and renewable technologies are suppressed. Plus cancer is the number one population controller on the planet ....
There are whole hospitals and wings of universites supported by chemo therepy and radiation can you imagine what that does to their industry if a much more effective and easy to use treatment becomes available. Who would choose chemo and radiation over antineoplastieens? If I found out they let my child die to hang on to their poisoning, im not sure what I would be capable of.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#35    jsowersby

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:13 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 19 August 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

What you're saying is uneducated, ignorance, you want some magical cure and then blaming drugs for not giving it to you. Don't be so asinine.

I'm not blaming drugs for anything. I'm saying they are ineffective. There is nothing magical about changing diet and being proactive about your own health. Anyone can learn to manipulate their own qi, it's not magical, it's just not understood by Western science.

It seems to me you just want to make rude comments and hope to get a rise out of me or insult me somehow. Your posts are arrogant and pointless.


#36    jsowersby

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:25 PM

View PostAtlantia, on 19 August 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

Skin is suprisingly strong and the 'spear' was a specially chosen prop. You could push a broom handle through a watermellon, so a blunt spear is no problem.
This type of 'Wushu' spear is a very special display prop, not an actual weapon. Also he moved into the blow on his back etc. It's a combination of training, discipline, and visual effects. It looks good but it's just a trick based in part on disciplined martial arts training.



As for the heat 'from' the hands demonstration?
It looked to me like a chemical reaction from the props in his hand. Without scientific or at the very least carefully controlled and verified independant testing it's neither here nor there really. To me it looked no more impressive than a farrier handling hot metal.

I have to say though that in terms of Wushu I like the Jian (long sword ) form best. I find this sort of thing more impressive than breaking blocks or bending sticks with ones throat:



They are impressive forms no doubt. Qi is internal are you cannot see it, only feel it. My experience with qi is no trick. I used a cooking thermometer and with my hands held about 7 inches above it focused qi in my hands and raised the temp by 5 degrees after 3 minutes. Although your guess about a chemical reaction could possibly explain the heat coming from Master Zhou's hands it does not explain the healing effects it had on the Doctor's back.

I like drunken sword! :tu:

Edited by jsowersby, 19 August 2012 - 10:31 PM.


#37    None of the above

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:42 PM

View Postjsowersby, on 19 August 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

They are impressive forms no doubt. Qi is internal are you cannot see it, only feel it. My experience with qi is no trick. I used a cooking thermometer and with my hands held about 7 inches above it focused qi in my hands and raised the temp by 5 degrees after 3 minutes. Although your guess about a chemical reaction could possibly explain the heat coming from Master Zhou's hands it does not explain the healing effects it had on the Doctor's back.

I like drunken sword! :tu:

I agree.
I've also seen things that deserve further 'scientific' investigation.
Most of the stuff that gets discussed around here I wouldn't waste a penny on investigating, but the various forms of 'chi medicine' ARE really interesting. I'd like to see them properly investigated and subjected to scientific analysis.


Edit:
What about this clip:


I collect swords and my understanding of martial skills is mostly weapon based..... I could watch her cut tatami mats all day long. ;)
She makes it look like nothing, but she really knows what she's doing.

Edited by Atlantia, 19 August 2012 - 11:13 PM.


#38    None of the above

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:05 PM

View PostSolarPlexus, on 19 August 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Yup the cure for cancer exists but the strong hand of pharmaceutical industry mafia will suppress it. Who needs healthy people to sell there drugs to ? The same reason all clean and renewable technologies are suppressed. Plus cancer is the number one population controller on the planet ....

If there was a 'universal' cure for cancers, then it couldn't be supressed for long.
EVERYONE has a personal interest in finding a cure for cancer.
If one set of researchers have found this 'cure' then others will have also found it or would do soon enough. If their research was supressed, then others research would get through.
Think about it. You're 24 years old, by the time you are my age (43) you will probobly have watched AT LEAST two close relatives die of cancer..... if you haven't already seen one?
An attended death in hospital to cancer is truly a sight to behold.
Pharmaceutical companies are for the most part repulsive money grubbing parasites who would deny poor people in Africa anti HIV drugs if they can't afford them.
But their power to control and supress something as BIG as the 'holy grail' of medical research, a universal cure for cancer? Not a chance.
Rich and powerful people die of cancer every day too.

P.S: Poverty is the #1 population controller on the planet, not cancer.

Edited by Atlantia, 19 August 2012 - 11:06 PM.


#39    White Crane Feather

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:27 PM

View PostAtlantia, on 19 August 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:



If there was a 'universal' cure for cancers, then it couldn't be supressed for long.
EVERYONE has a personal interest in finding a cure for cancer.
If one set of researchers have found this 'cure' then others will have also found it or would do soon enough. If their research was supressed, then others research would get through.
Think about it. You're 24 years old, by the time you are my age (43) you will probobly have watched AT LEAST two close relatives die of cancer..... if you haven't already seen one?
An attended death in hospital to cancer is truly a sight to behold.
Pharmaceutical companies are for the most part repulsive money grubbing parasites who would deny poor people in Africa anti HIV drugs if they can't afford them.
But their power to control and supress something as BIG as the 'holy grail' of medical research, a universal cure for cancer? Not a chance.
Rich and powerful people die of cancer every day too.

P.S: Poverty is the #1 population controller on the planet, not cancer.
Well it's not a universal cure, it's just way more effective without the devistating side effects of current treatments.

Did you watch the documentary? It is clear there has been a great effort to surpress and steal this technology.

Edited by Seeker79, 19 August 2012 - 11:28 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#40    Radian

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:59 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 18 August 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

The education level of some of you people is terrible.

Edit: Please find out about clinical trials and active ingredients before spewing such garbage.

What I find ironic is those who attempt to belittle and ridicule those with honest opinions are staying in the closed minded box rather than stepping out of it. Really? Who's willing to open their mind to possibilities and progress....? The mere possibilities that are out there and therefore progress, or the so called ones who 'claim' to be so educated and remain braindead?

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#41    Rlyeh

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:52 AM

View PostShankpin, on 19 August 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

What I find ironic is those who attempt to belittle and ridicule those with honest opinions are staying in the closed minded box rather than stepping out of it. Really? Who's willing to open their mind to possibilities and progress....? The mere possibilities that are out there and therefore progress, or the so called ones who 'claim' to be so educated and remain braindead?
Baseless accusations, the new open mindedness? Or is that lack of reading comprehension?

I find it odd that those who supposely have an open mind have thrown reason out, as you've nicely demonstrated.
Just a suggestion but you might want to use your brain the next time you try to read.


#42    Rlyeh

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:56 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 19 August 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

You don't become chemically addicted to your car. Do you have any idea the exports big pharm makes to other countries without controls? Do you have any idea how much they make on a shoddy system that allows people to be addicted and spoon fed pharmaceuticals until their kidneys give out?
*snip*

Since you've repeatedly ignored the trials and requirements drugs must pass, there is no use continuing this discussion with someone who blames drugs for human error.

Edited by Saru, 20 August 2012 - 04:19 PM.
Removed personal attack


#43    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 02:13 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 20 August 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Since you've repeatedly ignored the trials and requirements drugs must pass, there is no use continuing this discussion with someone who blames drugs for human error.
Human error on the scale that kills people more than car accidents? At least that is the statistic in 09.

There are around 190 million drivers and pharm kills more than car accidents. Human error? Haha you betcha, the error is in the trust and power we give them. No one forces us to put that crap in our mouths, or let pharm experiment on us.... but we do don't we...... So yeah Human error. If another industry killed that many people human error or not, they would be toast. Somehow they are not responsible, and Im sure it has nothing to do with money?

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#44    Rlyeh

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:43 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 August 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Human error on the scale that kills people more than car accidents? At least that is the statistic in 09.

There are around 190 million drivers and pharm kills more than car accidents. Human error? Haha you betcha, the error is in the trust and power we give them. No one forces us to put that crap in our mouths, or let pharm experiment on us.... but we do don't we...... So yeah Human error. If another industry killed that many people human error or not, they would be toast. Somehow they are not responsible, and Im sure it has nothing to do with money?
Thats still human error no matter how you spin it. *snip*

Edited by Saru, 20 August 2012 - 04:17 PM.
Removed insults


#45    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:47 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 20 August 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

Thats still human error no matter how you spin it.
Naive? That's funny. Believing money has nothing to do with this is more than naive.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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