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near death experiences


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#1    spursfan

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:20 PM

I have read in the past about near death experiences. I am not too sure where i stand on them. I have read that near death experiences can be induced by the drug ketamine, for instance. This must mean that NDE's aren't a genuine experience of what happens when we die and that they are chemically induced ?.

It puzzles me though as to why some people go to hell in their NDE's ?. I don't know if this too happens under the influence of drugs ?. But why would anyone go to hell in their NDE's. Surely we all want to go to heaven and see our families etc, like poeple do in most NDE's ?. If the experience of NDE is wish fulfillment of our wish to have an afterlife then how come people have bad NDE's ?. One person even had a bad NDE after a drug overdose when they nearly died and a positive NDE after nearly dying in an accident.

The only way i can see how this can happen is we somehow judge ourselves, or maybe are judged.

Sorry if my question is stupid !.

Edited by spursfan, 18 August 2012 - 06:20 PM.


#2    AmishHacker

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:43 PM

Testimonial evidence of NDEs is overwhelming.  While its possible that drugs can induce NDE-like experiences, it doesn't disprove them as a natural phenomenon.  I don't know what kind of reading you've done in the past, but I recommend near-death.com for an exhaustive resource on NDEs.

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who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the surface of the earth, the Lord is his name. -Amos 5:8

#3    SpiritWriter

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:50 PM

I love hearing these stories as well...

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#4    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:57 AM

View Postspursfan, on 18 August 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I have read in the past about near death experiences. I am not too sure where i stand on them. I have read that near death experiences can be induced by the drug ketamine, for instance. This must mean that NDE's aren't a genuine experience of what happens when we die and that they are chemically induced ?.

It puzzles me though as to why some people go to hell in their NDE's ?. I don't know if this too happens under the influence of drugs ?. But why would anyone go to hell in their NDE's. Surely we all want to go to heaven and see our families etc, like poeple do in most NDE's ?. If the experience of NDE is wish fulfillment of our wish to have an afterlife then how come people have bad NDE's ?. One person even had a bad NDE after a drug overdose when they nearly died and a positive NDE after nearly dying in an accident.

The only way i can see how this can happen is we somehow judge ourselves, or maybe are judged.

Sorry if my question is stupid !.
It's not stupid. Heaven and hell are states not places. Years of OOBEs have taught me a lot about altered state inturpretation.  None of the current rhetoric against NDEs are even remotely thought out or accurate. It's more like grasping at straws. Let's take your ketamine example. if I reproduce say an itchy foot with some sort of psyco active chemical, that says nothing about the reality of itchy feet. The induction of the experience may be artificial but indeed the natural experience is very real... Otherwise, you would not even have the capacity to experience it in the first place.

Edited by Seeker79, 20 August 2012 - 05:58 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#5    AmishHacker

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:14 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 20 August 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

It's not stupid. Heaven and hell are states not places. Years of OOBEs have taught me a lot about altered state inturpretation.  None of the current rhetoric against NDEs are even remotely thought out or accurate. It's more like grasping at straws. Let's take your ketamine example. if I reproduce say an itchy foot with some sort of psyco active chemical, that says nothing about the reality of itchy feet. The induction of the experience may be artificial but indeed the natural experience is very real... Otherwise, you would not even have the capacity to experience it in the first place.

:tu:

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He who made the Pleiades and Orion, and turns deep darkness into the morning and darkens the day into night,
who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the surface of the earth, the Lord is his name. -Amos 5:8

#6    SuddenPsychic

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:33 PM

Read markdohle's blog.  He has an interest in NDEs and has shared some amazing accounts he has culled from various sources.  Dude has an obvious passion for the subject and really does his homework.


#7    THE INTERPRETER

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:26 AM

View Postspursfan, on 18 August 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I have read in the past about near death experiences. I am not too sure where i stand on them. I have read that near death experiences can be induced by the drug ketamine, for instance. This must mean that NDE's aren't a genuine experience of what happens when we die and that they are chemically induced ?.

It puzzles me though as to why some people go to hell in their NDE's ?. I don't know if this too happens under the influence of drugs ?. But why would anyone go to hell in their NDE's. Surely we all want to go to heaven and see our families etc, like poeple do in most NDE's ?. If the experience of NDE is wish fulfillment of our wish to have an afterlife then how come people have bad NDE's ?. One person even had a bad NDE after a drug overdose when they nearly died and a positive NDE after nearly dying in an accident.

The only way i can see how this can happen is we somehow judge ourselves, or maybe are judged.

Sorry if my question is stupid !.

spursfan,

Some are shown hell because of the lack of reverence for that which is good and wholesome.  That person is always a child of light who is shown this because it accelerates thinking and learning bringing that soul to the desired level of development where they need to be.

Others who see demons are shown this for the same reason and to share it with others.  

The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.


#8    Likely Guy

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:29 AM

Near Death Experience (my definition):

About 30 years ago I started a free climb at a raging river's edge and got about 30 - 40 feet up. I looked up and I looked down. Down, was suicide. Up, was my only salvation.

I can never call myself a 'true atheist' because I had all those 'inner discussions' a person has, when they're caught in that situation. When I got 'stuck', I made a solemn agreement with 'the being', that if I didn't die today, I would never attempt this kind of thing again, unless I got the proper training and equipment. At one point, I 'saw', in my mind the small headline in a newspaper regarding my demise... "Local Man Dies Rock Climbing". My thought, after that, was if I fall, kick free and try to make the river.

60 - 70 feet later when I finally got up to bridge level, my legs felt like uncontrolled jackhammers.

It was on the north side of the Farwell Canyon bridge on the Chilcotin River (British Columbia, Canada, Highway 20). If you're so inclined, 'google earth' it.

After that, me and 'God', we're okay.


#9    fenta

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:31 PM

Testimonial evidence of NDEs is overwhelming.Posted Image


#10    Jello

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:55 AM

This summer I had bacterial meningitis and the doctors gave me a 30% chance that I would die. They had me on morphine, hydrocodone, and dilaudid for a whole week. The night I decided to go to the hospital I woke up in the middle of the night with the worst headache imaginable and terrible shakes. I remember laying in bed slipping in and out of consciousness. As I actually got up and started toward the hallway to go downstairs I remember the hallway becoming longer in length and surrounded in a gray light. At the end I saw a black mass that could only be described as a demon. To my right I saw a thin shadowed outline that was I was unmistakeably positive to be my friend who had killed himself years ago. He led me past the dark mass and I made it downstairs where my mother rushed me to the emergency room.

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#11    White Crane Feather

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:29 AM

View PostJello, on 25 August 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

This summer I had bacterial meningitis and the doctors gave me a 30% chance that I would die. They had me on morphine, hydrocodone, and dilaudid for a whole week. The night I decided to go to the hospital I woke up in the middle of the night with the worst headache imaginable and terrible shakes. I remember laying in bed slipping in and out of consciousness. As I actually got up and started toward the hallway to go downstairs I remember the hallway becoming longer in length and surrounded in a gray light. At the end I saw a black mass that could only be described as a demon. To my right I saw a thin shadowed outline that was I was unmistakeably positive to be my friend who had killed himself years ago. He led me past the dark mass and I made it downstairs where my mother rushed me to the emergency room.
Awesome.... I'm glad you are alright.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#12    Blueogre2

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:43 AM

NDE's are powerful experiences which, regardless if they are positive or negative cause people to live better lives. That being said I am not convinced that they are real, it makes me wonder if its some type of deception by the spirit world, but  since most people come away from it better and not worse then maybe an illusion with the intent to build people up and become more spiritual.


#13    dances with fire

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 02:13 AM

A near death experience changed my life, for the better. I had heard about them but never thought I would be one to experience it. When I came back I had to face what I had been hiding from all of my life and that was my abilities.


#14    Likely Guy

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 03:40 AM

View Postfenta, on 22 August 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

Testimonial evidence of NDEs is overwhelming.Posted Image

Welcome to the forums fenta.Near death experience? About 10 years ago a friend and workmate had his arm (just below the elbow) severed, pretty neatly by a hydraulic wood splitting blade. The problem was, was that it was deep snow in April, and we were about 40 miles from the nearest helicopter extraction zone.

But, because of the late April snow we also had lots of snow to pack his lower arm in, and lots of time to discuss it. The 'so called' victim was the most buoyant personality during the transportation.

In between sharing a cigarette with him, my other hand alternated between my thumb and index finger, for over an hour. Which one to stick into, just below his armpit to stem the flow of blood. Friends in the front seat were providing pressure, pushing down on the stump.

Long story short, he got to the big city hospital, about twelve hours later, and the vascular surgeons there were tickled pink to sew it all up.

He's good now, just a 'frankenscar'. He can still play guitar and bass pretty well, but his vocals still suck.

But maybe that's not a near death experience, because my friend Wayne said, "No, I'm not going to die today."

Edited by Likely Guy, 31 August 2012 - 03:58 AM.


#15    Render

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:02 AM

Peace of Mind: Near-Death Experiences Now Found to Have Scientific Explanations

Quote

Seeing your life pass before you and the light at the end of the tunnel, can be explained by new research on abnormal functioning of dopamine and oxygen flow

http://www.scientifi...mind-near-death

Seeing that drugs affect the dopamine levels and oxygen flow in the body it completely makes sense they can induce this hallucination.





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