67 replies to this topic

[Mc the Quipper]

Ealdwita,I`m not sure that your claim that Edward the Elder was been killed in battle is correct, I can find no authority that says he was. All that seems to be known of his death is that he died at Farndon-on-Dee while on his way to supress a Mercian-Welsh rebellion. However it is widely believed that Aethelred the first, the elder brother of Alfred the Great and his predecessor as king, died of wounds he received in battle

[ealdwita]

Taun, on 27 August 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

It's impossible to read too much Geoffrey of Monmouth (or TH White for that matter) or watch too many Shrek films!...

Ah good ol' TH White (The Once and Future King) - I like to think of him as the Lewis Carroll of history!

[ealdwita]

Mc the Quipper, on 27 August 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Ealdwita,I`m not sure that your claim that Edward the Elder was been killed in battle is correct, I can find no authority that says he was. All that seems to be known of his death is that he died at Farndon-on-Dee while on his way to supress a Mercian-Welsh rebellion. However it is widely believed that Aethelred the first, the elder brother of Alfred the Great and his predecessor as king, died of wounds he received in battle

Welcome to the site Mc and thanks for your input.

Let's deal with Aethelred first. Here's an excerpt from the AS Chronicles for AD871.........

"...after this fight [Alfred's defeat at Mardon 22 March] came a vast army in the summer to Reading. And after the Easter of this year died King Ethered [23 April]. He reigned five years and his body lies at Wimburn-minster."

Admittedly, the possibility exists that he died of his wounds, but there's no solid evidence to back it up.

As for Edward, William of Malmesbury in Gesta Regum records his death "obj.suus.vulnus" which to me, indicates some sort of injury. (Dear God, I'm tying meself in b****y knots here!)

Anyway, as far as 30 years of very bored history students are concerned, Edward the Elder died in battle!

Thanks, Mc - I enjoyed that!

[Chooky88]

I thought Blackadder accidently cut his head off? Seriously though. Examining his skeleton would be interesting to see the extent of his deformity (if he had one)

[Taun]

Chooky88, on 27 August 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I thought Blackadder accidently cut his head off? Seriously though. Examining his skeleton would be interesting to see the extent of his deformity (if he had one)

I don't think he had a (visible) deformity... everything I've read (other than Shakespeare) says he was of slight build, but athletic... Even Shakespeare acknowledged his courage and martial abilities....  Ol' Willie (Shakespeare) invented the deformities to paint a physical image of how 'evil and corrupt' he was (by Tudor standards)...   Sort of like in 1950's American Westerns... The bad guy always wore a black hat and had a thin mustache...

Shakespeare created an instant image so the audience would recognize 'the villain' at first sight...


Oh and I would like to second ealwita's welcome to you Mc...  Don't be shy - just jump right in!

Edited by Taun, 27 August 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[ealdwita]

Chooky88, on 27 August 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I thought Blackadder accidently cut his head off? Seriously though. Examining his skeleton would be interesting to see the extent of his deformity (if he had one)

No smoke without fire eh?

It's possible there may have been a certain asymmetry in his body, due to the fact that he was a slim man and constant practice since boyhood with his favourite weapon (the battlehammer) may have caused overdevelopement on the right side of his body, like a longbowman of his time or a tennis player of today. Stories of 'deformity' didn't appear until many years after his death. The earliest portrait we have of him (1520) shows no abnormalities.

[Mc the Quipper]

Thank you Ealdwita I fully appreciate that there is no solid evidence that Aethelred died in battle or of wounds sustained in it, and that he may have died a "natural" death. And not being a scholar of Latin I bow gracefully to the interpretation you make of William of Malmesbury`s words and fully accept that Edward died of wounds, I`d just never heard of it before.. My own copy of the Anglo-Saxon chronicles merely states that "King Edward passed away, in Mercia, at Farndon, and his son, Aelfweard very soon after..." Thank you for broadening my knowledge of our wonderful Anglo-Saxon past.

[ealdwita]

So much of the 'early' part of English history is nebuluous and can be interpreted in different ways. To me, that's what makes it so fascinating. At the end of it all, either of us could be right or both totally wide of the mark! I enjoyed our interaction very much.

Do you know of 'Richard of Eastwell' as a matter of interest?

Edited by ealdwita, 27 August 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[Mc the Quipper]

If you`re "talking" to me Ealdwita, I don`t. If you`re not "talking" to me, I still don`t know him!!

[Mc the Quipper]

My apologies Psychic Spy I never saw your welcome there, thank you. It just so happens that both Anglo-Saxon history and the life of Richard III happen to be among my favourite historical subjects, (which include Napoleon, the Southern Confederacy, the Spartans, the Zulu wars and Jack the Ripper,) I certainly will be paying more visits now I realise there are like minded people on this site. Thank you for the welcome, I look forward to more interaction.

[ealdwita]

Mc the Quipper, on 27 August 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

If you`re "talking" to me Ealdwita, I don`t. If you`re not "talking" to me, I still don`t know him!!

OK, just a thought.

[ealdwita]

As for the Zulu wars..........

[Mc the Quipper]

A most shameful episode in British colonial history. I used to think when I was a child how wonderful and brave the British were during that war, with the last stand at Ishandlwana and the defence of Rorke`s Drift....then I started to read the "true" story of the war. The number of arguments I`ve had with people whose only knowledge of it is through watching the film "Zulu!"

[ealdwita]

Mc the Quipper, on 27 August 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

A most shameful episode in British colonial history. I used to think when I was a child how wonderful and brave the British were during that war, with the last stand at Ishandlwana and the defence of Rorke`s Drift....then I started to read the "true" story of the war. The number of arguments I`ve had with people whose only knowledge of it is through watching the film "Zulu!"

On this we are in agreement. IMO 'Zulu' is on a historical par with 'Braveheart' and 'The Patriot'!

[Mc the Quipper]

Oh yes, I`m afraid I can`t watch so-called"historical" films without being critical of all the inaccuracies. In my own humble opinion the worst example has to be "Cromwell," an absolute travesty of known facts. My own father was furious when the Lord Protector was portrayed by Richard Harris, who he ever afterwards considered a traitor who had sold his country and its history for money!!